VIA Rail

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I think they're taking delivery of sets over a two-year period.

That will give Via a chance to retire their worst equipment in a decent time. I know part of the reason for this replacement is for the equipment rotting away. For that stuff, it will be gone soon enough. For anything salvageable, I wonder if it can be added to the existing fleet to be used to add more seats to the existing service? I also wonder whether any historical societies will grab any.

[roger1818]

According to VIA Rail's NGEC 2022 presentation (Feb. 25) they are "Targeting start of passenger service towards beginning of Q4 2022." That presentation doesn't show the delivery schedule, but according to VIA’s NGEC 2021 presentation, final acceptance of the last trainset was scheduled to be complete in Q1 2024, though it seems as though Siemens is a bit behind schedule (likely due to supply chain issues).

[J81]

Originally Posted by acottawa

My reading was Via paid for improvements to the Ocean portion, while NB kicked in for the freight lines to the North and South.

https://www.railway-technology.com/news/...ervice-on-newcastle-subdivision-4266537/

It doesnt matter what was said in a press release. The money itself ( majority of it ) went to the Sussex sub to upgrade it for the potash trains from Saskatchewan after the Sussex mine was shuttered. The money both parties spent was supposed to be allocated to upgrade the Newcastle Sub which is 173 miles long between Pacific jct and Campbellton and the Ocean runs over every mile of it. So theres no “Ocean portion” and no “freight lines” as you put it.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by J81

It doesnt matter what was said in a press release. The money itself ( majority of it ) went to the Sussex sub to upgrade it for the potash trains from Saskatchewan after the Sussex mine was shuttered. The money both parties spent was supposed to be allocated to upgrade the Newcastle Sub which is 173 miles long between Pacific jct and Campbellton and the Ocean runs over every mile of it. So theres no “Ocean portion” and no “freight lines” as you put it.

Money granted to railways should be granted only after the completion of specific projects. The funding of private railways should meet government priorities.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

It doesnt matter what was said in a press release. The money itself ( majority of it ) went to the Sussex sub to upgrade it for the potash trains from Saskatchewan after the Sussex mine was shuttered. The money both parties spent was supposed to be allocated to upgrade the Newcastle Sub which is 173 miles long between Pacific jct and Campbellton and the Ocean runs over every mile of it. So theres no “Ocean portion” and no “freight lines” as you put it.

If Via was upgrading that sub, maybe there is a plan to return service between Saint John and Moncton. So, if the majority of it went there, and they plan to bring service there, it is money well spent.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If Via was upgrading that sub, maybe there is a plan to return service between Saint John and Moncton. So, if the majority of it went there, and they plan to bring service there, it is money well spent.

I hate to be a pessimist but I doubt that Via pay the money, it was probably the government. Tracks used by passenger trains would be be brought up to a minimum standard before money is spent on improving trackage that is already above the minimum standard.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

I hate to be a pessimist but I doubt that Via pay the money, it was probably the government. Tracks used by passenger trains would be be brought up to a minimum standard before money is spent on improving trackage that is already above the minimum standard.

Did you say Via paid for it? Either they did or they didn't. It is not the same as the federal government paying for it.

[swimmer_spe]

For those on Facebook, 2 things I saw brings up the true potential of Via, if it could capitalize on it.

1) From BlogTO:
https://www.blogto.com/travel/2022/07/pe...lmost-half-ontarians-would-rather-drive/

"Almost half of Ontarians, 45 per cent, will drive to their destination instead, either for more local trips or driving across the border to fly out of a U.S. city to avoid layovers."

"A Leger study found that 18 per cent of Canadians have changed their travel plans due to airport delays or difficulties securing a passport. That same polling question found 20 per cent of Ontarians have changed plans."

My thinking... if only there was another option than flying or driving....

2) From Via Rail Canada's Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/viarailcanada/?...=0&show_follower_visibility_disclosure=0
Posted on Friday at 15:7 pm.

"Black bear observation tours? Campfire story time for the kids? Lakeside hammock-lounging, book in hand? It's not too late to book an unforgettable family summertime getaway at one of these marvelous cottage-country retreats: https://bit.ly/3PLqxil #GetHereVIA​
-
Observer les ours noirs? Raconter des histoires autour d’un feu? Se reposer dans un hamac avec un bon livre? Il n’est pas trop tard pour réserver d’inoubliables vacances en famille à l’un de ces havres de paix : https://bit.ly/3PMJvFb #ArriveziciVIA
#viarail #viarailcanada "

Wouldn't it be nice to go to the cottage for the weekend and not need to drive in the horrid traffic? Again, another loss for Via.
Maybe Metrolinx could do something through ONTC or GO

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

I hate to be a pessimist but I doubt that Via pay the money, it was probably the government. Tracks used by passenger trains would be be brought up to a minimum standard before money is spent on improving trackage that is already above the minimum standard.

This newspaper article from 2014 claims that VIA paid for it (or at least: tentatively agreed to do so) and that CN in return dropped plans to discontinue the tracks between Miramichi and Bathurst:

Via Rail agrees to $10.2-million upgrade in New Brunswick

However, only the federal government can release the necessary funds for any capital expenditure projects VIA entertains. Therfore, regardless of whether the federal government gave CN the money directly or through VIA’s capital expenditure budget, it would have been a funding decision which was made by some bureaucrats and governmental representatives in Ottawa, not by any VIA executives in Montreal…

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If Via was upgrading that sub, maybe there is a plan to return service between Saint John and Moncton. So, if the majority of it went there, and they plan to bring service there, it is money well spent.

Via didnt pay any money to fix the Sussex sub. They paid it to fix the Newcastle. Thats not where the money ended up though.

[acottawa]

You’re claiming official news releases and other public documents are wrong. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is a little weird without any other explanation or source.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

Via didnt pay any money to fix the Sussex sub. They paid it to fix the Newcastle. Thats not where the money ended up though.

So, a company was given government money for one thing and used it elsewhere instead? Sounds kinda fishy.

[JHikka]

Took VIA from Ottawa to Toronto yesterday and couldn't pay for a drink with cash, I was told they only accept debit or credit. Thought it was funny that we've gone from literal manual credit card machines to no cash in the past decade.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Took VIA from Ottawa to Toronto yesterday and couldn't pay for a drink with cash, I was told they only accept debit or credit. Thought it was funny that we've gone from literal manual credit card machines to no cash in the past decade.

I guess cash is not legal tender anymore, or have we forgotten this legality?

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I guess cash is not legal tender anymore, or have we forgotten this legality?

Not a lot of people know this, but there has never been any legal requirement to accept Canadian dollars as payment for anything. If there was, you'd be hearing all about the law being broken by company COVID protocols, but you never heard that did you?

The only law is that Canadian dollars must be accepted for repayment of loans. That's it.

[J81]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Took VIA from Ottawa to Toronto yesterday and couldn't pay for a drink with cash, I was told they only accept debit or credit. Thought it was funny that we've gone from literal manual credit card machines to no cash in the past decade.

You cant pay cash on any airline either can you?

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, a company was given government money for one thing and used it elsewhere instead? Sounds kinda fishy.

I was there when a railtrain unloaded all the brand new continuous welded rail on the Sussex sub and when it was empty the train was loaded up with jointed rail from the Sussex sub and unloaded and laid on the newcastle sub.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by J81

I was there when a railtrain unloaded all the brand new continuous welded rail on the Sussex sub and when it was empty the train was loaded up with jointed rail from the Sussex sub and unloaded and laid on the newcastle sub.

One would need to know what was promissed, but the article I quoted only referred to „repairs“ which were necessary to protect the current service levels (i.e. six train movements per week):

Via Rail agrees to $10.2-million upgrade in New Brunswick
FREDERICTON
THE CANADIAN PRESS
PUBLISHED MAY 12, 2014

Via Rail has tentatively agreed to spend $10.2-million to repair tracks in northern New Brunswick used to provide passenger rail service to the Maritimes, federal Transport Minister Lisa Raitt announced Monday.

The deal would see repairs to a 70-kilometre stretch of track between Miramichi and Bathurst.

Ms. Raitt said the funding means passenger service from Montreal to Halifax can continue three days a week in each direction.

[…]

CN was planning on abandoning the line and Via Rail had previously said it couldn't afford to buy or maintain the stretch of track.

[…]

The New Brunswick government previously announced it would provide $25-million to improve rail infrastructure in northern New Brunswick, while CN agreed to spend a comparable amount to maintain and operate its freight line for a 15-year period. But the stretch of track between Miramichi and Bathurst was not included that deal.

I can only go by the little tentative details this article reveals, but to me it sounds like the province of NB gave CN money to cofinance the acquisition of the CWR you whitnessed being unloaded onto the Sussex Sub, which then freed up the rails previously installed there to be reused on the Newcastle Sub. Given the much lower axle loads and train volumes on the Newcastle Sub, it makes intuitively sense to use the newest rails on the busiest stretched and cascade the rails they replace onto the least busiest stretches. Also, $70/meter ($10.2 million / 70 km / 2 rails per track) sounds like an insufficient amount to purchase and install CWR.

Rather than spreading conspiracy theories, I invite you to share sources which allow us to compare what was promised vs. what CN delivered. If we recall the level of scrutiny VIA received for its capital expenditure programs in the General Auditor‘s 2016 report, one might suspect that the alledged misuse of funds you accuse would not have gone unnoticed…

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Urban_Sky

One would need to know what was promissed, but the article I quoted only referred to „repairs“ which were necessary to protect the current service levels (i.e. six train movements per week):

I can only go by the little tentative details this article reveals, but to me it sounds like the province of NB gave CN money to cofinance the acquisition of the CWR you whitnessed being unloaded onto the Sussex Sub, which then freed up the rails previously installed there to be reused on the Newcastle Sub. Given the much lower axle loads and train volumes on the Newcastle Sub, it makes intuitively sense to use the newest rails on the busiest stretched and cascade the rails they replace onto the least busiest stretches. Also, $70/meter ($10.2 million / 70 km / 2 rails per track) sounds like an insufficient amount to purchase and install CWR.

Sounds reasonable to me. It is likely that CN offered to do it like this as a way to cut costs for the Newcastle Sub project (as compared to buying new rail for it). Even compared to purchasing used rail, shipping it from somewhere else would incur increased shipping charges. This is about as close as one could ever hope for. No doubt this was also beneficial for CN, as they get CWR for the Sussex Sub at significantly less cost than normal (there is no guarantee that they would be able to find a buyer for the old rail at anything more than salvage value). One also has to remember that CN having CWR on the Sussex Sub is also of benefit to the province.

[swimmer_spe]

https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/loca...wcm/19d5540e-b603-4a19-a7be-8ee0755dd4ca

When I read articles like this when people think the government cannot afford passenger rail, I laugh. The entire auto sector is propped up by the government, and the auto sector is the biggest competitor to Via and other intercity passenger rail.