Canadian LRT/RT projects U/C

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Hold the phone... you have to take three (3)?:!@@?!? trains to get from YOW to Downtown?

There was a joke in Ottawa.

Advertising for airport transit.

Only 20 minutes to downtown using the airport bus.

Then when the Confederation Line opened and the airport bus no longer went downtown.

Only 25 minutes to downtown using the airport bus and O-Train.

Then the future with Stage 2 of the O-Train

Only 45 minutes to downtown using the O-Train with convenient transfers at South Keys and Bayview.

For this, taxpayers are paying tens of millions.

White elephant, doesn't it seem?

Ottawa municipal politicians jumped on this plan when the province and feds agreed to pay the whole cost. Great way to build terrible infrastructure. And it will negatively affect transit in Ottawa when the operating loss for the airport service will be paid with service cuts elsewhere in the transit system.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

There was a joke in Ottawa.

Advertising for airport transit.

Only 20 minutes to downtown using the airport bus.

Then when the Confederation Line opened and the airport bus no longer went downtown.

Only 25 minutes to downtown using the airport bus and O-Train.

Then the future with Stage 2 of the O-Train

Only 45 minutes to downtown using the O-Train with convenient transfers at South Keys and Bayview.

For this, taxpayers are paying tens of millions.

White elephant, doesn't it seem?

It is times like this that I feel elected officials should us the transit while in office. Maybe January should be written as the month that they cannot drive or be driven anywhere. I'd bet they would change their plans for transit.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by nname

Or tunnel under the airport to merge line 2 and 4 into a single line, and skip the two stops in the middle of nowhere. Not sure what's the point of having Leitrim and Bowesville? But that would be much more costly I guess...

Leitrim serves Findlay Creek, a growing suburb. Bowesville will serve people coming from Greely and the Casino that is supposed to be substantially expanded. Both will likely generate more trips in the future than the airport ever will.

[nname]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Leitrim serves Findlay Creek, a growing suburb. Bowesville will serve people coming from Greely and the Casino that is supposed to be substantially expanded. Both will likely generate more trips in the future than the airport ever will.

The location of the station is pretty much in the middle of nowhere though, so most of the ridership would come from P&R and bus transfers. If that's the case, then the location of the station wouldn't really matter that much. Since you're driving anyways, it wouldn't matter that much if you drive 5km to Leitrim vs. 7km to Uplands; or 10km to Bowesville vs 12km to Limebank. Unless, you say, there will be eventually some plan to develop around the station rather than just a big P&R lot, but that doesn't looks likely.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Going under the airport might be a security issue. Imagine some terrorist sneaking in when the President of the USA, or any other world leader is coming to Ottawa?

If that's an issue, wouldn't places like LAX be a bigger issue, with road going under runways.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Leitrim serves Findlay Creek, a growing suburb. Bowesville will serve people coming from Greely and the Casino that is supposed to be substantially expanded. Both will likely generate more trips in the future than the airport ever will.

I wouldn't go that far. A village of 10k and a suburb of 14k aren't likely to generate more ridership than an airport that was seeing 5M passengers pre-Covid and has several hundred people employed there. Definitely over a thousand with Porter's expansion and the new Alt Hotel at the airport.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Leitrim serves Findlay Creek, a growing suburb. Bowesville will serve people coming from Greely and the Casino that is supposed to be substantially expanded. Both will likely generate more trips in the future than the airport ever will.

The "Casino"? Do you think people will walk or bike the 2.5 kilometers to the car centric "Casino".

I think Bowesville or Leitrim would have been ok, but not both. As nname said, if you're driving to the PnR anyway, what's an extra kilometer. Not building a station at the dense and low income Jasmine Crescent area in favour of these commuter only stations was a bad decision. The half mesure airport line, also a bad decision. Trim instead of Eagleson, questionable decision.

[Truenorth00]

Suburbanites are, forever, inflating the ridership potential of their car dependent hoods.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by nname

If that's an issue, wouldn't places like LAX be a bigger issue, with road going under runways.

I am assuming that road was put there pre 9/11?

[TorontoDrew]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yup. 12 minute frequency at the airport. Transfer three stations further at South Keys where the Line 2 train should be waiting, and transfer again at Bayview to Line 1 or 3 to Downtown a few stations east.


https://globalnews.ca/news/7486270/ottawa-lrt-stage-2-map/

Any plans to expand over the river? It seems like good planning would have the metro expand into Gatineau.

[GoTrans]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Any plans to expand over the river? It seems like good planning would have the metro expand into Gatineau.

Good planning? What is that in Ottawa? The modus operandi is big projects on a low budget with out taking the time to find out what works or doesn’t. Phase 1 should have been shorter with the same budget in order to have a better designed system.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

Good planning? What is that in Ottawa? The modus operandi is big projects on a low budget with out taking the time to find out what works or doesn’t. Phase 1 should have been shorter with the same budget in order to have a better designed system.

Stage 1 was fine. Blair is a logical transfer point. It's the Stage 2 expansion into Orleans and extensions to Riverside South that are costly. They could have used that money to improve Trillium and extend into Orleans.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Any plans to expand over the river? It seems like good planning would have the metro expand into Gatineau.

Gatineau wants to build its own tram network that crosses into Ottawa (surface Wellington or tunnel Sparks) and possibly loops around back to Hull.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/sto-tramway-lrt-gatineau-ottawa-1.5446921

The possibility of extending Line 2 across the William Commanda (formerly the Prince of Wales) Bridge has been discussed numerous times over the last couple decades. That bridge, which has been abandoned for about 15 years, is being converted for active use, but rail will be kept for future expansion.

That said, no actual plans to extend Line 2 across the river and official Ottawa never really discussed where such an extension would go.

[biguc]

It seems inevitable that one day the Trillium line will cross the river and replace the Gatineau Rapeybus, making a great, metro-spanning railway. I mean, it's right there.

In the long term, airport trains not going directly downtown won't matter as much. The airport line will either replace the transitway to Hurdman or interlace properly with Trillium. Either way it's a one transfer trip downtown. Meanwhile, the city's centre of gravity is shifting and what qualifies as downtown looks like it will at least quadruple in size over the next decade.

There still should be a bus though.

Originally Posted by nname

If that's an issue, wouldn't places like LAX be a bigger issue, with road going under runways.

Berlin and Amsterdam both have rail lines running under their airports. Amsterdam has a highway under one runway too.

Blowing up a train is already a bad enough terrorist attack. If you really wanted gravy, I don't know what kind of power it would take to blow up a tunnel and whatever plane happened to be above too. I don't think you'd need the tunnel if you had it.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Gatineau wants to build its own tram network that crosses into Ottawa (surface Wellington or tunnel Sparks) and possibly loops around back to Hull.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/sto-tramway-lrt-gatineau-ottawa-1.5446921

The possibility of extending Line 2 across the William Commanda (formerly the Prince of Wales) Bridge has been discussed numerous times over the last couple decades. That bridge, which has been abandoned for about 15 years, is being converted for active use, but rail will be kept for future expansion.

That said, no actual plans to extend Line 2 across the river and official Ottawa never really discussed where such an extension would go.

I still wonder about the timeline on the Gatineau Tram when it’s supposed to cost nearly as much as the Hamilton and Quebec City trams while serving a fraction as many people.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Beedok

I still wonder about the timeline on the Gatineau Tram when it’s supposed to cost nearly as much as the Hamilton and Quebec City trams while serving a fraction as many people.

The CAQ has confirmed they would fund 50%. Still waiting on the Feds. They've been saying "oh yeah, great project! we support it." for (at least two elections), but have yet to confirm a financial contribution. Seems half a billion on a useless election was more important than one billion on a rail project that could serve a hundred thousand people for decades to come.

NCC is now looking into the downtown tram loop, but the STO and City of Gatineau are hinting that they may shelve the project if the Feds don't step-up.

[J.OT13]

Close-up shots of Lincoln Fields (Line 1 and 3 west), Bowesville (Line 2 south) and Jeanne d'Arc (Lines 1 and 3 east), from OC Transpo.

• Video Link

[TorontoDrew]

Metrolinx has started testing full length trains on the crosstown line now.


source: blog.metrolinx.com

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by biguc

It seems inevitable that one day the Trillium line will cross the river and replace the Gatineau Rapeybus, making a great, metro-spanning railway. I mean, it's right there.

Why you gotta change the great name Rapibus into that?

Originally Posted by biguc

In the long term, airport trains not going directly downtown won't matter as much. The airport line will either replace the transitway to Hurdman or interlace properly with Trillium. Either way it's a one transfer trip downtown. Meanwhile, the city's centre of gravity is shifting and what qualifies as downtown looks like it will at least quadruple in size over the next decade.

Absolutely. I'm slowly considering the possibility that Somerset, Preston, and Carling will be more of a Downtown than Downtown currently is in the future. Spent the past few days in Ottawa and spent more time in that part of town than the Downtown proper. Other than the LRT there isn't much that's interesting north of Laurier or even Somerset, at least for me visiting personally.

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Metrolinx has started testing full length trains on the crosstown line now.

It'll be finished....someday.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Absolutely. I'm slowly considering the possibility that Somerset, Preston, and Carling will be more of a Downtown than Downtown currently is in the future. Spent the past few days in Ottawa and spent more time in that part of town than the Downtown proper. Other than the LRT there isn't much that's interesting north of Laurier or even Somerset, at least for me visiting personally.

Build a few hotels near Dow's Lake, Corso Italia and Bayview. That to me will make the airport situation more palatable.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Build a few hotels near Dow's Lake, Corso Italia and Bayview. That to me will make the airport situation more palatable.

What would the hotels serve? Condo visitors?