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[someone123]

Apparently this is being done to the Gibson's building on Chebucto Road?


Source

Another case of a loss of character with generic new building styles used for little clear gain. It's good that they're not tearing it down for a parking lot I guess. Imagine how it would look if they made it a 4 storey building in the style of the old one but refreshed with some apartments above. Instead it somehow looks simpler or lesser than what was there, and makes it feel like the city's history is shrinking a bit (is this an Edwardian neighbourhood? A strip mall built in 2018?).

[Colin May]

Welcome to the knew BBC economy .....booze, biscuits and coffee.

[bartekci]

Originally Posted by someone123

Apparently this is being done to the Gibson's building on Chebucto Road?

Don't mind a coffee shop/destination (as long as they don't go with that horrific signage!) but agree, it'd been nice to offer some light density by putting a few apartments over top. Owell.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

Apparently this is being done to the Gibson's building on Chebucto Road?


Source

Another case of a loss of character with generic new building styles used for little clear gain. It's good that they're not tearing it down for a parking lot I guess. Imagine how it would look if they made it a 4 storey building in the style of the old one but refreshed with some apartments above. Instead it somehow looks simpler or lesser than what was there, and makes it feel like the city's history is shrinking a bit (is this an Edwardian neighbourhood? A strip mall built in 2018?).

I'm glad to see the space being reanimated this way. It's a great little location for something like this. But likewise, it's a strange choice to just reduce the old building this way, turn it into some pleasant but generic box. I don't really understand the mentality that leads a person to buy a structure with intact and timeless decorative elements, etc, and just strip it all away for something that will look dated in ten years.

Obviously it's not the end of the world, but it demonstrates a lack of care and a lack of appreciation for what makes the city distinct. I'm sure the person doing this would also say the valued the city's historical character, if asked, yet is doing their bit to diminish it.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Based on the rendering I'd guess it's a new build built to resemble the existing building. Of course, if this were true, it'd be even more egregious to not build up a couple/few stories of residential units.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Based on the rendering I'd guess it's a new build built to resemble the existing building. Of course, if this were true, it'd be even more egregious to not build up a couple/few stories of residential units.

The development proposal submitted to the city indicates it’s a renovation of the existing building. But the fact that it looks like a new construction that pays vague homage the old building says a lot!

[LikesBikes]

I think this looks pretty good. The existing building imo is nothing special and I could see a cafe being pretty successful in that spot.

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

There is very little surface parking there, certainly not enough to discourage anyone on foot from going in. Sometimes dogmatic arguments like this just make me shake my head.

No one's going to be discouraged from going in cause of the parking but it's an inefficient use of space for a downtown corner. Filling that space with a pedestrian-oriented commercial use would help fill in that area immensely and connect the north end to downtown.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by LikesBikes

No one's going to be discouraged from going in cause of the parking but it's an inefficient use of space for a downtown corner. Filling that space with a pedestrian-oriented commercial use would help fill in that area immensely and connect the north end to downtown.

I think your dogma just bit you again. There is nothing there that is keeping it from being pedestrian-oriented right now. The small number of surface parking spots opens them up to a customer base other than just pedestrians since there is no other place for a person in a vehicle to park nearby. God forbid a planner actually asked the business owner how their sales would be affected if their little parking area was eliminated. And as for connecting the north end to downtown, this is not the problem.

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Which reminds me....the north end seems to be doing very well and, gasp!! (clutch your pearls now) the Cogswell Interchange is still there! Has the public been lied to over the past number of years? How often was it said that the reason the north end was doing so poorly was because of the Cogswell Interchange?

[atbw]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Which reminds me....the north end seems to be doing very well and, gasp!! (clutch your pearls now) the Cogswell Interchange is still there! Has the public been lied to over the past number of years? How often was it said that the reason the north end was doing so poorly was because of the Cogswell Interchange?

I don't recall this ever being said. I recall it being said that downtown and north end are disconnected due to Cogswell, but I don't really remember that being extrapolated into a case of the north end being downtrodden. It's been trendy for years now. Cogswell seems to be more about adding developable land/making that area more functional.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Arrdeeharharharbour

Which reminds me....the north end seems to be doing very well and, gasp!! (clutch your pearls now) the Cogswell Interchange is still there! Has the public been lied to over the past number of years? How often was it said that the reason the north end was doing so poorly was because of the Cogswell Interchange?

Would HRM Council lie to you?

This is their theme song...

• Video Link

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by atbw

I don't recall this ever being said. I recall it being said that downtown and north end are disconnected due to Cogswell, but I don't really remember that being extrapolated into a case of the north end being downtrodden. It's been trendy for years now. Cogswell seems to be more about adding developable land/making that area more functional.

I recall those conversations as well, and the take-away perception that I was left with is that the downtrodden state of the neighbourhoods directly north (not necessarily the north end as such) was likely at least in part due to the separation caused by Cogswell.

Cogswell is a problem that is solving itself, IMHO. The original Harbour Drive concept was stopped in its tracks by the protests against tearing down the few remaining 1700s stone warehouses and some of the other buildings that now make up Historic Properties, so we were left with part of an expensive expressway that went nowhere. It lived out its life until maintenance costs gifted the city with a no-brainer decision to take it down and redevelop the valuable wasted land taken up by the interchange. The city's hand was basically forced to do what it should have proactively been doing in the first place.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think your dogma just bit you again. There is nothing there that is keeping it from being pedestrian-oriented right now. The small number of surface parking spots opens them up to a customer base other than just pedestrians since there is no other place for a person in a vehicle to park nearby. God forbid a planner actually asked the business owner how their sales would be affected if their little parking area was eliminated. And as for connecting the north end to downtown, this is not the problem.

Yeah, I see height limitations being density's kryptonite, not little parking lots that allow people who don't live in the neighbourhood to stop in and buy something at a business when there are no other parking areas closeby (not that somebody is going to travel from the suburbs to go to the downtown Staples, but that's not the point).

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Apparently this is being done to the Gibson's building on Chebucto Road?


Source

Another case of a loss of character with generic new building styles used for little clear gain. It's good that they're not tearing it down for a parking lot I guess. Imagine how it would look if they made it a 4 storey building in the style of the old one but refreshed with some apartments above. Instead it somehow looks simpler or lesser than what was there, and makes it feel like the city's history is shrinking a bit (is this an Edwardian neighbourhood? A strip mall built in 2018?).

I'll be the first one to admit that I've driven by this 1000 times and never gave it much notice, but yes, I do agree that eliminating the more ornate, stylish elements of the original building is a lost opportunity.

I can't hold the owners at fault for not turning it into a 4-storey building that includes residential, etc., as it appears that they just want to turn a small unused existing building into a coffee shop (adding floors would make it a development, not a renovation). However, IMHO there could have been more effort to incorporate the original themes of the building into the renovation, as opposed to turning it into a featureless box. The building in its current state is looking pretty run down, so I guess it's a net positive that it won't be torn down, but it could have been better IMHO.

Here's an older pic from Google maps to compare with the rendering:

Source

[LikesBikes]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I think your dogma just bit you again. There is nothing there that is keeping it from being pedestrian-oriented right now. The small number of surface parking spots opens them up to a customer base other than just pedestrians since there is no other place for a person in a vehicle to park nearby. God forbid a planner actually asked the business owner how their sales would be affected if their little parking area was eliminated. And as for connecting the north end to downtown, this is not the problem.

Surface parking lots make walking a less pleasant experience. Further they add to the urban heat island, make walking more dangerous with a costant flow of motor vehicle traffic and are generally ugly places people don't want to be in. If that wasn't the case cities like Phoenix and Houston would be places people fly all over the world to instead of Paris, New York or Rome.

[Keith P.]

I remember that the Gibsons antique shop property was listed for sale a few years ago and the real estate listing had pictures of the residential space above and if memory serves at the rear of the ground level. It was what you might expect, pretty plain. The business itself had a FB page that has not been updated since 2015 so it looks like it has been inactive for a while. Unfortunately the pictures and old listing seem to have disappeared from anywhere I can find them.

From what I hear the bottom has fallen out of the antique furniture/collectible business over the last few years as younger people with money wanting to furnish their McMansions do not find it appealing.

[Jreeb]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I remember that the Gibsons antique shop property was listed for sale a few years ago and the real estate listing had pictures of the residential space above and if memory serves at the rear of the ground level. It was what you might expect, pretty plain. The business itself had a FB page that has not been updated since 2015 so it looks like it has been inactive for a while. Unfortunately the pictures and old listing seem to have disappeared from anywhere I can find them.

From what I hear the bottom has fallen out of the antique furniture/collectible business over the last few years as younger people with money wanting to furnish their McMansions do not find it appealing.

Source

I found the old listing and you're right, everything seems to be quite old and rundown inside. Looks like the residential space is connected to the downstairs space. I wonder if they will offer seating upstairs and on the balcony.

[Keith P.]

Good find! That looks different from what I remember though, but maybe my memory is playing tricks. The door trim is clearly newer reproduction stuff that was added later. If the residential work had been better quality it might have made for a nice space.

Even though I have a Viewpoint login I cannot see those pictures at your link.

[IanWatson]

I think one of the things that gets dismissed or overlooked in the "old/heritage building" discussion is "heritage" layouts. Sure, interior finishes may be shot or may be victim of poorly-done renovations over the life of the building, but the original floor plan is still very often there, albeit with creative modifications to put in modern washrooms and such.

These are layouts that you would never build today for a variety of reasons, but a good designer can do wonders with to create a modern, unique space. For many years I lived in a 200-year-old condo, and while the interior finishes had all been upgraded, there was nothing to be done about the ceiling heights and the giant doubled-sided fireplace that dictated the layout of spaces. It wasn't conventional and, again, not something I would build if you gave me a blank sheet of paper, but it was an incredibly beautiful and cozy space.

What I see looking at this cafe in the Gibsons space is a desire to shape the building to fit the business, rather than the business to fit the building. Wide-open cafes with scandanavian finishes are a dime a dozen, but cozy little cafes tucked into the various nooks and crannies of an old building are harder and harder to come by.