Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Hackslack]

Aside from the times when the Jays get +35k in attendance, is watching a ball game at a packed Buffalo Salen Field a better experience than watching the Jays in a half empty sky dome?

I love the rendering of the dome btw. They look great

[Coldrsx]

Transit, population key factors in location of proposed Saskatoon arena district, experts say

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon...oon-arena-district-experts-say-1.6535226

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I think when the time comes, they will knock down the dome and build new in place. The year before that, they will throw a big chunk of change into Salen Field in Buffalo and play there until they can move into their new home. I suggested playing in Buffalo a while back but after the last couple years, it's not as far fetched anymore. Especially if they bring that up to a much higher standard than even when they played there over the pandemic and have a seating capacity for Canadians who can now go there pretty freely.

The current location is just too good to mess with. No way are they moving to the suburbs. The pain of dealing with Buffalo for a couple or maybe 3 seasons would be long forgotten after the new place opens.

You raise a really good point I never considered before. The millions that the Jays put into Sahlen Field make it a potential temporary home should the Jays wish to tear down the SkyDome. I don't think it's likely that will ever happen - I am one of those who believe the Jays should be stuck where they are - but it's a possible answer to the question "where would they play?"

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Transit, population key factors in location of proposed Saskatoon arena district, experts say

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon...oon-arena-district-experts-say-1.6535226

I loath the comparisons to the ICE District because it just sets people up to be disappointed, but at least it sounds like they're considering the right things. A downtown arena will be a disaster without rapid transit.

[itom 987]

Edmonton had a stupid professor saying exactly the same thing the one in the article is saying about Saskatoon arena district. I advise you all not to listen to the professor!

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by itom 987

Edmonton had a stupid professor saying exactly the same thing the one in the article is saying about Saskatoon arena district. I advise you all not to listen to the professor!

Don't worry. Probably the only opinion in Saskatoon more unpopular than "we need a new arena" is "we should build the new arena somewhere other than downtown". We learned our lesson with Sask Place.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by thewave46

At one point, Wrigley Field was considered an old stadium, a monument to the past compared to the newfangled multipurpose stadiums that were popping up in the suburbs. Today, it's a gem.

Will SkyDome have the legacy of Wrigley? No, but I suspect that working within the bounds of what is possible by updating it and giving it the patina of eras - even if flawed - will give it more distinctive character than just building another new retro-classic or retro-modern ballpark like has been built many times over.

You can sit in the sun and enjoy a ballgame at SkyDome in the summer in reasonable comfort. Or if the weather is awful, you don't have to be wet or freeze. It's close to transit and is in the core of the city, so it's not a hassle to get to. Sure, it's kind of big and sterile, but I was there for the game, not the building.

When I think of bad arenas/stadiums, I think of something like Canadian Tire Place, stuck in the boonies of Ottawa, where the one demerit (accessibility) annihilates every other benefit.

Anyway, good on Rogers for trying to make improvements to what they have instead of whinging for a handout from government for a new thing.

I doubt it. These renos are going a long way to turn it into a baseball stadium but, I'm not sold it will replicate the feel of a purpose built baseball stadium. The 200 Level and up will still be in a multi-use configuration.

I do see this major investment and the usual annual improvements lasting longer than ten years. The Sykdome is built solid unlike many modern stadium using lighter weight materials. I also don't see it being torn down completely when it comes to a larger modernization after I'm dust

The only place I can think of is the Island Airport for a new stadium. It's also a baseball toss away from where Babe Ruth hit his only minor league home run.

The Jays land lease is up for renewal in the next 10 or 15 years. There's always that very slim chance a pro development province kicks them off the land and rezones for mixed use

[craner]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I think when the time comes, they will knock down the dome and build new in place. The year before that, they will throw a big chunk of change into Salen Field in Buffalo and play there until they can move into their new home. I suggested playing in Buffalo a while back but after the last couple years, it's not as far fetched anymore. Especially if they bring that up to a much higher standard than even when they played there over the pandemic and have a seating capacity for Canadians who can now go there pretty freely.

The current location is just too good to mess with. No way are they moving to the suburbs. The pain of dealing with Buffalo for a couple or maybe 3 seasons would be long forgotten after the new place opens.

This makes a whole lot of sense on a number of levels. Maybe the Buffalo Bisons (if that is what they are still called) could play somewhere in Toronto for the 2/3 seasons the Jays are in Buffalo. I would think the Jays would only have to be out of Toronto for 2 seasons as you would also have 3 off-seasons to complete the new stadium on the current Skydome site. You would have to have absolutely everything prepared & ready to go in terms of demolition & construction of the new park though.

My hope is they would incorporate a retractable roof over the new stadium. And is there any chance Rogers could partner with surrounding land owners to build a new entertainment/condo district around the stadium? Sorry, I’m not familiar with the current development around Rogers Centre other than the recent 3-tower Oxford proposal to the north.

In one of the articles I read Shapiro mentioned the $300M renos are to see them through the next 10 years. This seems like a rather short time frame (i.e. a lot of dough to spend on renos that are only intended to be needed for a decade). I guess we shall see.

[Hackslack]

What is the price tag for a new state of the art baseball stadium? Along the same lines as a $1Billion+ NFL stadium? I expect these renos to last the Jays a very long time, unless Rogers can get government funds to help pay for the new stadium.

[esquire]

I was poking around the Arizona Coyotes website and spotted this... man, the Moose Jaw Warriors have a more impressive setup.



For reference:

[esquire]

Originally Posted by craner

In one of the articles I read Shapiro mentioned the $300M renos are to see them through the next 10 years. This seems like a rather short time frame (i.e. a lot of dough to spend on renos that are only intended to be needed for a decade). I guess we shall see.

To me it makes good sense for Rogers to spruce up Skydome and keep using it well into the future. Skydome's location is kind of the trump card, they couldn't do better than what they have. And as has been noted, it appears to be a big, solidly built structure with plenty of room for whatever they might want to stick in there. It's always nice to see a stadium used longer... in a world where people fret about idling cars for 5 minutes, it is downright absurd to imagine the sheer environmental impact of demolishing a functional 35 year old stadium only to replace it with a similar-sized structure down the road.

I get that Skydome is not in fashion as it is a child of the multipurpose stadium era, but in some respects it learned from the mistakes of the 60s and 70s and is much better suited to baseball than some of the earlier multipurpose venues. It's not fundamentally flawed in any way.

The one thing I am curious about is how the numbers work. If they're talking north of $250 million for renos that mostly seem to affect the outfield area, I wonder how many party deck tickets they expect to sell to offset that cost. In other words, it's a lot of money to improve some fairly marginal seating areas. I would imagine the renos will also have to improve the high end seating areas behind the plate to justify some higher ticket prices to help pay down all the renovation costs?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by esquire

I was poking around the Arizona Coyotes website and spotted this... man, the Moose Jaw Warriors have a more impressive setup.

Looks like a rendering. Is this their temporary digs or the proposed arena?

If this is acceptable in the NHL, Sens should just move back to the Civic Centre until the new LeBreton arena is built.

[esquire]

^ It's their "temporary" arena.

[blueandgoldguy]

The Coyotes arena is a little bit better then Moose Jaw's with more suites between the blue lines and a distinct club seating area at centre ice. They are also adding an atrium to the arena to allow for more square footage.

That said, it's pretty faint praise - we are comparing the Coyotes arena to a junior hockey arena. If they can't get their arena proposal off the ground in the next 1 - 1.5 years, the Coyotes will almost certainly move...even with the 3 year lease as it will likely take 2.5 years to build an arena.

[thewave46]

Originally Posted by esquire

To me it makes good sense for Rogers to spruce up Skydome and keep using it well into the future. Skydome's location is kind of the trump card, they couldn't do better than what they have. And as has been noted, it appears to be a big, solidly built structure with plenty of room for whatever they might want to stick in there. It's always nice to see a stadium used longer... in a world where people fret about idling cars for 5 minutes, it is downright absurd to imagine the sheer environmental impact of demolishing a functional 35 year old stadium only to replace it with a similar-sized structure down the road.

I get that Skydome is not in fashion as it is a child of the multipurpose stadium era, but in some respects it learned from the mistakes of the 60s and 70s and is much better suited to baseball than some of the earlier multipurpose venues. It's not fundamentally flawed in any way.

The one thing I am curious about is how the numbers work. If they're talking north of $250 million for renos that mostly seem to affect the outfield area, I wonder how many party deck tickets they expect to sell to offset that cost. In other words, it's a lot of money to improve some fairly marginal seating areas. I would imagine the renos will also have to improve the high end seating areas behind the plate to justify some higher ticket prices to help pay down all the renovation costs?

If I had to bet, I'd wager the cost will be a wash at best if one looks at the narrow view of things from a party-deck ticket revenue versus construction spend point-of-view.

Now, if we're talking about a wider view of things:
- Stronger interest in going to a Jays game when the team is mediocre (in context of the AL East)
- Justifying the sale more expensive beer/drinks to that clientele
- Better word-of-mouth: "How was the game? Great! We got loaded on the party deck! Who won? I don't remember."

The cost probably works out.

[TorontoDrew]

the Marlies have better digs.

source: https://www.coca-colacoliseum.com

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

The Coyotes arena is a little bit better then Moose Jaw's with more suites between the blue lines and a distinct club seating area at centre ice. They are also adding an atrium to the arena to allow for more square footage.

That said, it's pretty faint praise - we are comparing the Coyotes arena to a junior hockey arena. If they can't get their arena proposal off the ground in the next 1 - 1.5 years, the Coyotes will almost certainly move...even with the 3 year lease as it will likely take 2.5 years to build an arena.

Kansas City? Oklahoma? Portland? Hamilton? QC?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Kansas City? Oklahoma? Portland? Hamilton? QC?

How about the Avenir Centre in Moncton?





Heck, if his standards have fallen so low, we should petition Buttman for an NB franchise right now.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Kansas City? Oklahoma? Portland? Hamilton? QC?

The answer as to if the Coyotes will survive in Arizona will become much clearer after the upcoming season. If they get great turnout at ASU and they make significant progress on the Tempe arena preliminary work, they have good chances of surviving. If turnout still sucks, they're done. If the arena faces delays or a lawsuit (Goldwater Institute likes to do this in Arizona), they're done.

As to where they could move? Whoever is in the right place, at the right time, with the right arena. It's been discussed so many times over and each market has its merits and drawbacks.

[thurmas]

How does it stack up with SSP's favorite arena Centre Slush Puppie?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by thurmas

How does it stack up with SSP's favorite arena Centre Slush Puppie?

The Coyotes would probably make more money there than at ASU.