[Halifax] Press Block (1730 Granville) | ? m | 9 fl | Completed

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

Interior aside a portion of the exterior was demolished as well. Another question is whether these will operate as real buildings or will just be decorations hanging from another building with its own arrangement of space, entrances, etc.

I think in a lot of cities it would have been a no-brainer to preserve at least the Dennis Building as a registered heritage building, though hopefully this development will turn out nicely.

I can't see any reason why they would be constrained in any way by the exterior "decorations of buildings past". It wouldn't make sense at this point, as they are just building whatever they would have built if the lot were empty, with the only difference being that a couple small portions of the building will be decorated with cladding that has been in place for 180 years in some cases (for the lower floors of the Dennis). It's just a modern building with some interesting exterior features - that's it.

I am glad to see the empty lot being developed, but damn, it's disappointing to see what little respect that significant old buildings get in Halifax.

As an aside, when I read your comment about a portion of the exterior being demolished as well, I immediately thought of the ghost images of old buildings that once abutted the Dennis, that were clearly visible until recently. Apparently I'm the only one in the city who thinks that sort of thing is cool, but to me, there was a visible sign of the city's history right out there for all to see. Now it's landfill somewhere.
https://goo.gl/maps/bKoMTrDqcGEXMvU79
https://goo.gl/maps/PL7FXdVBLhjS6XxZ7

Honestly, my enthusiasm for Halifax has diminished somewhat over the past few years. I'm encouraged by some new developments like the Waverley Inn, but so disappointed that the people in charge of things here appear as though they would be just as happy to sweep the history of the city under the carpet so they can focus on whatever is the latest trendy planning bone to chew on.

While looking for info on the building, I stumbled across this article, which I found amusing in how obvious the futility of heritage designation is around here. Lots of self-congratulations, but little substance beyond the facade (just as in the building's case).

[someone123]

I think this building might turn out okay and a lot of the new ones look good, but it does feel like there have been many lost opportunities. Halifax is one of the worst cities in Canada for self-inflicted heritage losses, and may top the list for most senseless losses of the most historic buildings. You could build a small downtown out of the historic buildings I've seen demolished in Halifax over the years of following development there.

It stands out to me how the pace of development has sped up so much but we have not seen a commensurate amount of effort put into improved heritage buildings (e.g. Pacific Building). It reminds me of how there has been a run-up in real estate prices here that made a lot of money for some people but didn't materially change the buildings. If anything a lot of them deteriorated; the slum rental houses got a bit worse and were flipped while the sale price went from $800,000 to $2.2M. I think there are downsides to financialization and investment/speculation that cities have to actively combat in order to produce the best possible outcomes. I don't believe that those measures have to be harmful to investment but they require thought and planning, they don't just happen.

I also can't help but notice how people complained that the 1910's and 20's buildings were demolished in the 60's and 70's, and then the exact same thing happened to the 50's and 60's buildings.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I also can't help but notice how people complained that the 1910's and 20's buildings were demolished in the 60's and 70's, and then the exact same thing happened to the 50's and 60's buildings.

I suspect that may be due to people looking at photos of since-demolished 1910s and 20s buildings 50-60 years after they were gone and imagining how different the city would look today if they were still here. Perhaps in 50 years people will be mourning the loss of the Bank Of Canada building, Ralston bldg, etc.

Also there was a shift in architecture around that period from more ornate, stylish buildings (and buildings with obvious handwork like cut stone, etc.) to simpler more modern designs (with more mass-produced pieces) that for many people don't have the same appeal as the earlier examples. That being said it's completely subjective and thus not easily quantifiable, so...

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Honestly, my enthusiasm for Halifax has diminished somewhat over the past few years. I'm encouraged by some new developments like the Waverley Inn, but so disappointed that the people in charge of things here appear as though they would be just as happy to sweep the history of the city under the carpet so they can focus on whatever is the latest trendy planning bone to chew on.

I feel the same frustration over the undervaluing of historic assets, though I do think proposals like the Waverley and Elmwood represent to some degree a shift in terms of major development proposals.

And though I do think Halifax has been unusually bad about trashing its historic architecture of late, I also think it's easy to forget that this is happening elsewhere. Toronto seems to have actually become worse in the past little while. The Dennis-like facadism of the Concourse Building comes to mind, or the gutting of this unusually impressive commercial row on King Street.

I still maintain that despite it all, Halifax is on balance more attractive and more lively than five years ago, and much more than ten years ago. It's just unfortunate that I think we all see how a more coherent and intentional approach to development could have made things better still.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I feel the same frustration over the undervaluing of historic assets, though I do think proposals like the Waverley and Elmwood represent to some degree a shift in terms of major development proposals.

And though I do think Halifax has been unusually bad about trashing its historic architecture of late, I also think it's easy to forget that this is happening elsewhere. Toronto seems to have actually become worse in the past little while. The Dennis-like facadism of the Concourse Building comes to mind, or the gutting of this unusually impressive commercial row on King Street.

I still maintain that despite it all, Halifax is on balance more attractive and more lively than five years ago, and much more than ten years ago. It's just unfortunate that I think we all see how a more coherent and intentional approach to development could have made things better still.

In fairness, the Waverley and Elmwood have given me hope that we may be on the cusp of heading in the right direction, and I agree that overall development has helped to improve the downtown.

It's tough, however, for long-time residents who care about the history and historical structures to see how much was lost, just over the past couple of decades.

The Dennis happened in 2022. I mean, if a stone-clad building that was built in 1841, burned down in 1913 and was rebuilt with internal steel structure and 3 floors added on, that was part of our political history (a press building situated right across from Province House, as was the Acadian Recorder), and was even owned by the friggen province (who of all people should have been aware and protecting of its history), isn't considered worthy of saving, then that leaves very few buildings that Halifax would consider 'untouchable'. Probably Province House, City Hall, St Paul's Church (1750), Government House, and a few others will probably never be considered for redevelopment. However, in 2022, there is nothing else in my mind that's off the table. It's just a random chance that a developer might want to do something interesting that involves saving a historic building.

In a sense, though, it's fine. The city, and all cities as you point out, will always undergo a degree of change and renewal. If nobody values the historic buildings enough to keep them around, then that in itself becomes part of the history of the city. As long as most people are happy about it (or gleefully unaware), then the only thing that matters is that people are happy with their city. Those of us who have some memory of what was here and what was lost will eventually pass on, and the younger generations will be left with their bike lanes and urban experiences. And that's OK too... it's all part of life, and nobody knows what is coming down the road - cities of the future might be something completely unrecognizable to those of us who are around now. Maybe history won't matter in future society, it may just consist of a collection of tales that fit a particular agenda to make people feel a certain way about something - maybe it's always been that.

Anyhow, I've used up enough of this thread talking about stuff that doesn't really matter to most. I do think this development will be a net positive for the block, even if it won't end up to be as good as it could have been.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I mean, if a stone-clad building that was built in 1841, burned down in 1913 and was rebuilt with internal steel structure and 3 floors added on, that was part of our political history (a press building situated right across from Province House, as was the Acadian Recorder), and was even owned by the friggen province (who of all people should have been aware and protecting of its history), isn't considered worthy of saving, then that leaves very few buildings that Halifax would consider 'untouchable'.

Being owned by the Province is what led to this fate. The Province takes very poor care of its buildings, and is loathe to spend money on just fixing roofs or updating systems, much less doing full restorations. It's just not something that their penny-pinching ways allow, any more than they allow bridges to be kept in good repair so they don't fail or roads to be free of chuckholes.

Look at the recent history of the Dennis. While it was in use, it was where govt functions that were considered unimportant were banished, until it was deemed too intolerable for even those poor souls to endure. Then it became a political football for a decade, with various Ministers saying it was being assessed, was too expensive to fix, would be sold, would not be sold, blah blah blah. As an asset it was totally mismanaged. They didn't want to put any money into it and so it was never going to end any other way than this. The facade being saved is quite possible a better outcome than some of the other things that could have potentially been done to it by its owner. Sad.

Ironically if it had been a HRM building it probably would have been treated to a $50 million restoration, like what they have promised to do with the Khyber for all these years but on a much larger scale. Of course the Khyber is still a largely derelict building because nobody can quite figure out how to keep the promises Mason HRM made.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Being owned by the Province is what led to this fate. The Province takes very poor care of its buildings, and is loathe to spend money on just fixing roofs or updating systems, much less doing full restorations. It's just not something that their penny-pinching ways allow, any more than they allow bridges to be kept in good repair so they don't fail or roads to be free of chuckholes.

Look at the recent history of the Dennis. While it was in use, it was where govt functions that were considered unimportant were banished, until it was deemed too intolerable for even those poor souls to endure. Then it became a political football for a decade, with various Ministers saying it was being assessed, was too expensive to fix, would be sold, would not be sold, blah blah blah. As an asset it was totally mismanaged. They didn't want to put any money into it and so it was never going to end any other way than this. The facade being saved is quite possible a better outcome than some of the other things that could have potentially been done to it by its owner. Sad.

Ironically if it had been a HRM building it probably would have been treated to a $50 million restoration, like what they have promised to do with the Khyber for all these years but on a much larger scale. Of course the Khyber is still a largely derelict building because nobody can quite figure out how to keep the promises Mason HRM made.

I don't disagree with this analysis, but there is also the issue of people howling any time the government DOES spend money. It's ridiculous how much bureacratic waste we have, money squandered to zero discernible public benefit, while we can't even perform basic building maintenance.

The VG hospital has been a disaster for decades and it's not even that old. Meanwhile in Europe, there are functioning hospitals hundreds of years old that have been properly maintained and are doing fine.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by kzt79

I don't disagree with this analysis, but there is also the issue of people howling any time the government DOES spend money. It's ridiculous how much bureacratic waste we have, money squandered to zero discernible public benefit, while we can't even perform basic building maintenance.

The VG hospital has been a disaster for decades and it's not even that old. Meanwhile in Europe, there are functioning hospitals hundreds of years old that have been properly maintained and are doing fine.

I think the howling, lack of direction, and poor outcomes go together to some degree. I wonder what the cost of all the planning activities around the SGR streetscaping project (city staff and politician wages, consultants) were relative to the work itself. There seems to be a huge amount of churn and a huge number of projects on the plate at any time in HRM with constant waffling and the context switching between those taking up a significant portion of the total planning bandwidth and funding.

With the VG there has been similar high drama with poor maintenance and provincial politicians deciding the building was finished but then delaying the replacement by several decades. As you suggest I am skeptical that there's anything uniquely bad about that building or special about NS.

This is really a public sector phenomenon affecting the municipality and certain provincial departments. Private developers manage to build lots of ambitious things, and the feds fund major projects in other cities. I wonder if the feds get fed up with HRM/NS since we read about the need for federal funds for projects for years that end up cancelled.

[JET]

Saw a poster yesterday re historic Lunenburg buildings, and reminded of this: historic storm porches of halifax. https://halifaxbloggers.ca/noticedinnovascotia/2015/02/halifax-storm-porches/ I wonder how many of the houses from the original Halifax poster are still around? How much heritage has disappeared?

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by JET

Saw a poster yesterday re historic Lunenburg buildings, and reminded of this: historic storm porches of halifax. https://halifaxbloggers.ca/noticedinnovascotia/2015/02/halifax-storm-porches/ I wonder how many of the houses from the original Halifax poster are still around? How much heritage has disappeared?

Most are still around from what I know. I think there may be a few in there that were on Brenton behind the Trillium.

That 5288 Tobin pic is my favourite because its a stone storm porch. It's here: https://goo.gl/maps/5mCcRNEP53v23bpo7

[LikesBikes]

I'm pretty sure I've seen these in non-maritimes cities too. For example, aren't these also pretty common in Montreal?

[someone123]

Crane is up: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cs4A9KNAdj5/

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

20230718_154244 by AJ Forsythe, on Flickr

[JET]

Supports are now going in for second floor, Barrington Street level.

[kph06]

I think these are some new renderings. The finishes seem very similar to Queen's Marque.





Source: pressblock.ca

[Arrdeeharharharbour]

Good find! I'm happy to see these renderings...unusually high quality renderings too. For me this build is a win on many fronts. Retention of the Dennis Building facade, the filling-in of two long-empty lots, the glass corner of restaurant/retail space on Barrington, the use of sandstone and large windows (window wall?) as well as just the overall look of the building.

[Keith P.]

A unique variation on the traditional Halifax 7-storey box.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I like it. The new renderings give a much better sense of detail and how it fits in with the block around it.

If I were to have one criticism, it would be that the section that roughly imitates the Cragg Building looks a little featureless or blockish. IMHO, perhaps the addition of a cornice at the top might help bring it full circle and compliment the Dennis bldg's historical facade?

The actual Cragg bldg had one:

Source.

[Drybrain]

Really nice. My only two quibbles: one, the view from the north still makes it look a bit like the new parts of the development are eating up the Dennis Building. And two: it seems like the Dennis’ entry is not going to be active, really reducing the old facade to a kind of wallpaper. This looks like it will be much better than Founders Square, which really suffers from a dead street frontage, but I would love to walk though the front door of the Dennis Building into a grand lobby.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Really nice. My only two quibbles: one, the view from the north still makes it look a bit like the new parts of the development are eating up the Dennis Building. And two: it seems like the Dennis’ entry is not going to be active, really reducing the old facade to a kind of wallpaper. This looks like it will be much better than Founders Square, which really suffers from a dead street frontage, but I would love to walk though the front door of the Dennis Building into a grand lobby.

That’s a good observation. I hadn’t picked up on the entrance, as it looks like the doors are still there, but you’re right that they will probably have little or no functionality as the main entrance is clearly presented to the south. That’s disappointing.