PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[DeltaNerd]

I'm curious what is going to happen to the greyhound station, I hope it moves to 30th street station.

As for the mall I hope both AMC and round 1 can stay in center city

For the Arena it's self, I hope they can add an tower. I love the balcony's.

I think Jefferson station waiting area needs to be expended and also add more escalators! Same with Patco

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Con: Filbert between 10th and 11th becomes a covered street.

Mostly thrilled about this proposal, but re: Filbert: covered or eliminated? My only reservation.

I haven't been to City Winery, but isn't it on the next block?

I was excited when the AMC was announced, but I despise the the AMC Dine-in thing. I know people love Alamo Drafthouse. Maybe they're just better at it? Personally, I want to see an Angelika as part of a mixed use megaproject at the Disney Hole.

[christof]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

The project will take nine years to plan and build. I’m sure AMC/City Winery will have time to relocate elsewhere in the city. A lot can happen in a decade. The amount of restaurants, hotels and retail the arena will bring to the area will likely make up for it.

Going to go Negadelphian here -

I think there is a 20% chance of this arena actually being built @ 10th & Market.

Inflation and interest rates are going to play havoc with the financing here. The days of low interest rates are gone, yet the view on Wall St has it that low rates will return. Having low rates is critical in this deal, otherwise, the financing will not work.

Just my 2 cents...

[Raja]

Build it build it build it. There are some painful sunk costs. There are amenities that may need to move. There will be some growing pains with traffic patterns on Race, Arch, the Vine, and 7th/8th. All of that pales in comparison to the unique opportunity we have to re-do this turd of a project that's eaten up three entire blocks of the city's central and perhaps most tourist-heavy thoroughfare. Bonus if we can milk a renovation of 13th, 11th, and 8th street stations out of this. Extra bonus that there's literally zero displacement of residents or small businesses. There is so much freaking upside. Do it!!!

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

The project will take nine years to plan and build. I’m sure AMC/City Winery will have time to relocate elsewhere in the city. A lot can happen in a decade. The amount of restaurants, hotels and retail the arena will bring to the area will likely make up for it.

For those unsure, this is the block that will be replaced.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9517569,...2Fti2MjcZotAWse0VBc3Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

AMC/Round 1 and Primark are the big tenants on this block (not City Winery), so hopefully (as others said) they will all relocate nearby.

Just across the street is crying towers over retail podiums. Who owns the South side of 1000 block of Market?

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by christof

Going to go Negadelphian here -

I think there is a 20% chance of this arena actually being built @ 10th & Market.

Inflation and interest rates are going to play havoc with the financing here. The days of low interest rates are gone, yet the view on Wall St has it that low rates will return. Having low rates is critical in this deal, otherwise, the financing will not work.

Just my 2 cents...

I think it’s possible. As of late I’m a bit skeptical of any project in the pipeline right now. If the economy tanks this year or next then any proposed development listed on here will be on the chopping block I suppose.

In any case, the timeline for this is two years of approvals and then two years of design/planning even before demo begins. So I doubt they’re even considering the current state of the economy much right now.

On the other hand, I remember Philly actually did relatively okay during The Great Recession. Albeit, it had a lot of momentum behind it back then. Usually, economic downturns seem to hurt CA, FL, and AZ markets the worst. They tend to be the most over saturated.

[Dan1]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

I'm curious what is going to happen to the greyhound station, I hope it moves to 30th street station.

The Amtrak master plan proposes a new bus terminal north of the station. On what's currently an Amtrak equipment parking lot. Hopefully this is a good reason to get that built.

[japmes]

Originally Posted by Dan1

The Amtrak master plan proposes a new bus terminal north of the station. On what's currently an Amtrak equipment parking lot. Hopefully this is a good reason to get that built.

Are there renderings for this anywhere?

[DudeGuy]

Who owns the South side of 1000 block of Market?

I'm pretty sure PREIT owns/owned the Robinson Building and the two adjacent buildings, per this article from WHYY.

[summersm343]

You know, I was against replacing the Fashion District so soon, but if Macerich is involved that means they don't have a ton of confidence in the leasing of Fashion District in it's current state.

The major tenants in this stretch that Center City needs to keep are the AMC Theater, Primark, Ulta Beauty, Wonderspaces, Forever 21 and Round 1. If we can move these stores into other sections of the mall, fill up the remainder of the mall more, this could be a win-win.

This would almost certainly send shockwaves down Market East and lead to a redevelopment of Market Street and the surrounding area, so let's do it, why not?

[McBane]

Overall, this is good news. Also good news we can stop the annual arena in Center City discussion!

But seriously, my only reservation is that they're building it at a spot that was just renovated and has useful, good tenants (Primark and AMC). Do I love the revamped Gallery? No, but it's serviceable and an upgrade from what it was before. I wish the arena could have instead replaced the eyesores across the street or the Disneyhole lot.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by christof

Going to go Negadelphian here -

I think there is a 20% chance of this arena actually being built @ 10th & Market.

Inflation and interest rates are going to play havoc with the financing here. The days of low interest rates are gone, yet the view on Wall St has it that low rates will return. Having low rates is critical in this deal, otherwise, the financing will not work.

Just my 2 cents...

You realize that the guys funding the arena own one of the largest private equity firms in the country, right? Like, they aren't Daniel Snyder or some dot com dude. These guys are a part of shaping and making the financial system/markets and make their $$ forecasting things years out - interest rate hikes aren't going to catch them by surprise.

[iamrobk]

Gonna laugh and cry if/when this is completed and 8th and Market is still empty.

Also, Adelman is buying Michael Rubin's share of the Sixers. I don't really know if that's been publicly reported yet but figured I'd throw it out there since he's part of this plan.

[Dan1]

Originally Posted by japmes

Are there renderings for this anywhere?

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5...lan+Final+Report_June2016_8.5x11_web.pdf

This document shows it around page 81/77.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by PHL10

I'm of course not especially sad to see the FD go but man, we literally just dropped millions in public money into the renovations.

Who cares though? Many said at the time it was a mistake. The gallery is still a failure after its half baked rebrand. That money is already a poor investment. As long as we're not putting anymore public money towards this new project, it's more than fine with me.

I have to say I'm pretty shocked. I talked to my friend a few weeks ago and he said that I should expect a public announcement soon but for a different location! So as of VERY recently they were getting very serious about an entirely different site. I can only assume this means that Preit and macerich were motivated to get this deal done. I think it says a lot about the financial health of the revamped gallery.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Londonee

You realize that the guys funding the arena own one of the largest private equity firms in the country, right? Like, they aren't Daniel Snyder or some dot com dude. These guys are a part of shaping and making the financial system/markets and make their $$ forecasting things years out - interest rate hikes aren't going to catch them by surprise.

Yeah, financing is not going to be an issue. Gentrification fears and roadblocks put up by the city are the biggest hills to climb, but I'm assuming Squilla is on board with this privately if not yet publicly. With the team put together and the financial benefits for Macerich I think this happens.

This is exciting and I'm already impatient. '31 is a long way off. I wonder how long it will be before we see initial renders from Gensler.

[Urbanthusiat]

Originally Posted by christof

Going to go Negadelphian here -

I think there is a 20% chance of this arena actually being built @ 10th & Market.

Inflation and interest rates are going to play havoc with the financing here. The days of low interest rates are gone, yet the view on Wall St has it that low rates will return. Having low rates is critical in this deal, otherwise, the financing will not work.

Just my 2 cents...

This is years out. Who knows what interest rates will be in 2028...

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by christof

Going to go Negadelphian here -

[...]

Just my 2 cents...

Every post you make is some weird take on why developments will fail. Take a step back, dude.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by iamrobk

Gonna laugh and cry if/when this is completed and 8th and Market is still empty.

Also, Adelman is buying Michael Rubin's share of the Sixers. I don't really know if that's been publicly reported yet but figured I'd throw it out there since he's part of this plan.

Perhaps Virgin Hotel will setup shop in the area since they were considered for Goldenberg's other property on Broad Street.

[reparcsyks]

If this happens, AMC, Primark, etc will move across the street into a new development. Overall, this would be such a positive for Market East, and the area in general.