The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Very interesting. This jives with intelligence I have received that there are multiple proposals for mid to high rise buildings in central Moncton, more than ever seen before.

So, the choke point is in the city planning department. This explains why the PAC agendas recently have been so sparse. City planning receives the proposals, and performs an initial evaluation to determine if they are compliant, or if variances are necessary. When variances are required (usually yes for significant projects), then they are sent to PAC, and this is when these proposals become public.

This delay is extremely frustrating. It is slowing down development in the city, and, is also increasing the costs of these projects for the developers (inflation, worsening supply chain issues, rising interest rates). I would not be surprised if some projects are not just abandoned due to these delays.

I wonder if there could not be a change instituted in the process so that the most significant projects are prioritized for the overworked staff in the city planning department to attend to first. We use triage all the time in our hospitals. Maybe city planning should too...........

As a (very) small-scale developer, the concept of triaging based on estimating cost sounds a little unfair! We pay taxes too, lol. First-in, first-out should apply. Small and low-cost projects are more likely to actually come to fruition, require less complicated review processes, fewer zoning changes, etc. I'd be furious to have, say, a three-townhouse development on appropriately-zoned land, delayed indefinitely by PAC/staff because someone else proposed something else that would cost more to build.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

We should let the city know that this forum could be a group member

As long as no privileged information is made public, then there should be no limitation to free speech.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

As a (very) small-scale developer, the concept of triaging based on estimating cost sounds a little unfair! We pay taxes too, lol. First-in, first-out should apply.

I completely understand where you are coming from, and, in most cases, I imagine small projects will make it through the approval process much more quickly too.

On the other hand, major projects with values in the tens of millions of dollars could have outsized importance to the future of the city, and, should be given some form of expedited consideration.

The real solution of course is to make sure any staffing issues in the planning department are addressed ASAP.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I completely understand where you are coming from, and, in most cases, I imagine small projects will make it through the approval process much more quickly too.

On the other hand, major projects with values in the tens of millions of dollars could have outsized importance to the future of the city, and, should be given some form of expedited consideration.

The real solution of course is to make sure any staffing issues in the planning department are addressed ASAP.

Of course- but the big files take exponentially more resources and time. I'm fine with, like, the Three Sisters taking some priority over a smaller application submitted at the same time, but imagine hearing 'sorry, someone sent us a new proposal for a 48-unit apartment yesterday, so we are pushing you down the list again'. That would be brutal.

There's also the issue of moonshots like the Landmark in SJ or St. Bernard's in Moncton: imagine delaying small projects for weeks because there's a very hypothetical major 'project' that's basically a render or three.

Like you say, Moncton needs to put some of this permit money into staffing immediately.

[CreamOfpumpkin]

One thing I have noticed is that many of the development departments are fragmented and separated. Now I understand that one person can not lead a project end to end. However, the amount of hands/departments any one project must go through depending on the specifics is out of control. With each department, a project touches it will inevitably be at the bottom of multiple groups queues. Intake > Zoning > Planning and development > Engineering > Lawyers > council. Projects move slowly because they are touched insignificantly and then moved to another department. The communities that do it the best are the places that have a shared online process, for example, Cloud Permit they are a US-based company that is really innovating the permitting slog.

[josh_cat_eyes]

What’s actually gonna happen is in a couple weeks from now the T&T is gonna run a story on the cities planning departments shortages and the city will react to it next year with an increased budget for the department. Just speculation obviously, but we do know that T&T follows this forum.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

What’s actually gonna happen is in a couple weeks from now the T&T is gonna run a story on the cities planning departments shortages and the city will react to it next year with an increased budget for the department. Just speculation obviously, but we do know that T&T follows this forum.

LOL. I guess I need to stoke the rumour mill more, then.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

LOL. I guess I need to stoke the rumour mill more, then.

You laugh, but it is the god's honest truth. Many many more times than I can count, we'll start chattering about something we've heard or noticed, and just a few days / a week later, T&T or CTV or Global or (rarely) CBC will be running an article on just what we were talking about.

So I'm sure there are a few reporters digging into the Moncton city planning process, verifying numbers and details just for this sort of article. Especially since it is a juicy subject ("City government inefficiencies getting in the way of development!") to write about.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

You laugh, but it is the god's honest truth. Many many more times than I can count, we'll start chattering about something we've heard or noticed, and just a few days / a week later, T&T or CTV or Global or (rarely) CBC will be running an article on just what we were talking about.

So I'm sure there are a few reporters digging into the Moncton city planning process, verifying numbers and details just for this sort of article. Especially since it is a juicy subject ("City government inefficiencies getting in the way of development!") to write about.

Maybe one of us works for them… hmmm but who could it be.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

You laugh, but it is the god's honest truth. Many many more times than I can count, we'll start chattering about something we've heard or noticed, and just a few days / a week later, T&T or CTV or Global or (rarely) CBC will be running an article on just what we were talking about.

Or Huddle.

There have been several instances in the last few weeks where Huddle has investigated and reported on things posted either on here (or Retail Talk & Share) just a couple of days previously.

The one that amused me the most was Denny's. I posted on SSP about Denny's considering the Maritimes as a "prime territory" for expansion (I saw this on their franchising page), and not two days later, the reporter had a front line story about Denny's wanting to build five new restaurants in the region by 2024.

It's all good though. We dig up the rumours and then the mainstream media outlets do all the legwork in terms of investigation.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Of course- but the big files take exponentially more resources and time. I'm fine with, like, the Three Sisters taking some priority over a smaller application submitted at the same time, but imagine hearing 'sorry, someone sent us a new proposal for a 48-unit apartment yesterday, so we are pushing you down the list again'. That would be brutal.

There's also the issue of moonshots like the Landmark in SJ or St. Bernard's in Moncton: imagine delaying small projects for weeks because there's a very hypothetical major 'project' that's basically a render or three.

Like you say, Moncton needs to put some of this permit money into staffing immediately.

Every time I see a reference to St. Bernard's Square I'm disappointed. It would have been such a great addition to the downtown. I only hope that the new owner of the land will come up with a project that's comparable to the previous proposal.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Of course- but the big files take exponentially more resources and time. I'm fine with, like, the Three Sisters taking some priority over a smaller application submitted at the same time, but imagine hearing 'sorry, someone sent us a new proposal for a 48-unit apartment yesterday, so we are pushing you down the list again'. That would be brutal.

There's also the issue of moonshots like the Landmark in SJ or St. Bernard's in Moncton: imagine delaying small projects for weeks because there's a very hypothetical major 'project' that's basically a render or three.

Like you say, Moncton needs to put some of this permit money into staffing immediately.

I can understand for those to projects, but if a building is proposed for next door to Staples on Main Street, or if Spitfire has designed the rendering, they should immediately become the top priority for the city. New Tim Hortons restaurants also take priority too.

[Taeolas]

As far as processing proposals goes, triaging would probably be a good idea over a "standard FIFO" queue. But as noted, you don't want to focus JUST on the big projects.

Ideally you would make sure you have enough for two streams, the "Big" projects that need a large amount of work, and the smaller projects that may need minimal work, and set metrics to track the progress of both tracks to make sure they are going relatively smoothly.

Even if you only have 1 person doing the work, you would hope they would divide it up something like:

Monday: Backlog grooming: Prioritize and categorize new proposals, and review existing proposals to make sure they're in the right spots in the queue
Tuesday, Wednesday: Work on the top "Big Budget" proposal
Thursday, Friday: Churn through the smaller/faster proposals to clear as many as possible.

and have some flexibility to maybe finish one proposal if it has been a long time or is more politically important, or you need to work around an expert's availability, or if the backlog of small proposals is getting too big, etc...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

You laugh, but it is the god's honest truth. Many many more times than I can count, we'll start chattering about something we've heard or noticed, and just a few days / a week later, T&T or CTV or Global or (rarely) CBC will be running an article on just what we were talking about.

So I'm sure there are a few reporters digging into the Moncton city planning process, verifying numbers and details just for this sort of article. Especially since it is a juicy subject ("City government inefficiencies getting in the way of development!") to write about.

As predicted, there is an article just released on the T&T website with the following headline.

Labour Shortages Leave City With 50+ Job Openings.
https://tj.news/times-and-transcript/101920939 (paywall)

[Monctoncore]

Haha, you called it.

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

As predicted, there is an article just released on the T&T website with the following headline.

Labour Shortages Leave City With 50+ Job Openings.
https://tj.news/times-and-transcript/101920939 (paywall)

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

Haha, you called it.

Literally 4 days later, I called it haha.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by josh_cat_eyes

Literally 4 days later, I called it haha.

Yes! It was you, I couldn’t remember if it was you or Monctonrad

[MonctonRad]

A small snippet from Mayor Dawn Arnold's FB update on city council proceedings:

In “Planning Matters” we had four items:

1. Public Hearing for a new 235-unit apartment & commercial space at Main & Lorentz
2. A new subdivision plan — “Cumberland Place” — Charles Lutes Road
3. Assenting to the location of Vaughan Harvey Blvd to allow for the development at Main & Vaughan Harvey
4. Approved the street name “Navigateurs” in Grove Hamlet

re: Main & Lorentz - I have a feeling we will see construction beginning next year. This is an Ashford project. I suspect this will keep Ashford occupied for a couple of years until they are ready to proceed on the Downing Street project.

re: Main & Vaughan Harvey - City council seems to be in a hurry to expedite this. I suspect we will see ground broken this fall or next spring.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A small snippet from Mayor Dawn Arnold's FB update on city council proceedings:



re: Main & Lorentz - I have a feeling we will see construction beginning next year. This is an Ashford project. I suspect this will keep Ashford occupied for a couple of years until they are ready to proceed on the Downing Street project.

re: Main & Vaughan Harvey - City council seems to be in a hurry to expedite this. I suspect we will see ground broken this fall or next spring.

Are there any homes/structures to be demolished before this project proceeds? If there is I can see that happening in the fall to be readdy to go in the spring.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

Are there any homes/structures to be demolished before this project proceeds? If there is I can see that happening in the fall to be readdy to go in the spring.

Nope. There is no demolition necessary at Main & Vaughan Harvey. This has already occurred.

Unless you are referring to the Lorentz project. There is one building there that needs to be demolished. This would only delay things by a week or so though.