[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Yes, working on a 46-unit mixed income on Waterloo. Just secured funding from Social Development, pending a little paperwork.

Fantastic news!

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Fantastic news!

Do we know the address?

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Yes, working on a 46-unit mixed income on Waterloo. Just secured funding from Social Development, pending a little paperwork.

Great news - where abouts on Waterloo? I see a development has started near the bottom - do you know what that is?

[adamuptownsj]

Re: Waterloo, address is a secret for now, but we have not started work. Current plan is 24 affordable including 4 accessible on main floor, and 23 market including 2 accessible. Planning for no more than 10 parking spots.

No idea what is going on at the bottom, unless you're talking about the 12 room supported or transitional or whatever women's housing project on Middle/Brunswick.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

36 spaces underground, 10 surface spots in the back. For a 120 unit building that is very impressive.

I do have concerns with parking and yes, I understand that we are trying to move away from a "car focussed" society but for those of us with cars and who now live on the peninsula the surge of development and increase in population is having a significant impact on parking. What the city does not seem to appreciate is that with development the need for parking does in fact increase and while not all tenants/owners have vehicles, visitors etc do. I believe we needa full revamp of the uptown parking strategy - potentially more one way streets with parking on both sides where feasible - carmarthen and Sydney come to mind along with a rethink of the alternate side parking issue. I believe the car/unit ratio needs to be higher. There are other issues that also come to mind - we used to live next door to a 9 room rooming house that was converted into 4 high end apartments - while the density actually decreased (from 9 single men with NO cars to 4 or 5 people in 4 apts) the need for parking skyrocketed as each of the tenants now own at least one vehicle and sometimes two.

[JHikka]

Uptown has a number of large-scale parking garages that are not always used. They should be transitioned to be used more for visitors or even residents where needed.

If we're going to be restructuring streets then it should be to make them more pedestrian-friendly and not to squeeze more stationary cars onto them. If people are moving onto the Peninsula they should be prepared to live in an environment that's built more for pedestrians and residents instead of for cars.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Uptown has a number of large-scale parking garages that are not always used. They should be transitioned to be used more for visitors or even residents where needed.

If we're going to be restructuring streets then it should be to make them more pedestrian-friendly and not to squeeze more stationary cars onto them. If people are moving onto the Peninsula they should be prepared to live in an environment that's built more for pedestrians and residents instead of for cars.

I don't completely disagree with you - we do have parkades that are underutilized to some degree but the reality of the situation is that cars are and in my opinion will continue to be a major part of our lives for the foreseeable future. The Uptown peninsula offers some very unique and challenging issues with regards to parking and Saint Johners in general don't like to walk any great distances from their parked car! When tourism is back in full swing and based on the plans, it will likely significantly increase with the inevitable increase in cars - try parking in Market Square or even Brunswick square on a typical summer day and you'll see my point. One other issue we see is around snow bans - we have lost a number of lots due to development and as this continues the challenges will increase. I am not suggesting my few thoughts are the only solutions (how about angle aprking on certain streets? that would increase availability without compromising livability)- my position is that all aspects need to be considered rather than the same old line, there are X number of spots in an area and only X have been permitted out - that does not tell the full story and as a resident owner Uptown I would always challenge The City and the parking commission to continue to review and be creative with potential solutions/strategies.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I don't completely disagree with you - we do have parkades that are underutilized to some degree but the reality of the situation is that cars are and in my opinion will continue to be a major part of our lives for the foreseeable future.

Perhaps in general but this really can depend on neighbourhood. The Uptown is unique east of Quebec because it's a tight, walkable urban neighbourhood. Cars take away from that.

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

The Uptown peninsula offers some very unique and challenging issues with regards to parking and Saint Johners in general don't like to walk any great distances from their parked car!

No better time to start. Consider the distances that people walk in Costco's sea of parking, or within the store itself. People will walk if their mind is set to it.

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

When tourism is back in full swing and based on the plans, it will likely significantly increase with the inevitable increase in cars - try parking in Market Square or even Brunswick square on a typical summer day and you'll see my point.

We should be building a city for its residents, not for its tourists.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

I do have concerns with parking and yes, I understand that we are trying to move away from a "car focussed" society but for those of us with cars and who now live on the peninsula the surge of development and increase in population is having a significant impact on parking. What the city does not seem to appreciate is that with development the need for parking does in fact increase and while not all tenants/owners have vehicles, visitors etc do. I believe we needa full revamp of the uptown parking strategy - potentially more one way streets with parking on both sides where feasible - carmarthen and Sydney come to mind along with a rethink of the alternate side parking issue. I believe the car/unit ratio needs to be higher. There are other issues that also come to mind - we used to live next door to a 9 room rooming house that was converted into 4 high end apartments - while the density actually decreased (from 9 single men with NO cars to 4 or 5 people in 4 apts) the need for parking skyrocketed as each of the tenants now own at least one vehicle and sometimes two.

Is there not an opportunity to have a bigger underground presence for this building?
I agree there is lots of parking garages but they are a solid 5-6 blocks? from the proposed building. How many people that have kids, or elderly will want to park and walk in the snow/rain etc.

I'm all for less cars but with the weird spot transit is in with the city and no real grocery store uptown. Cars are still necessary. I think 40-60 underground spots would be preferable really.

[ColSJ]

I’ll chime in on this discussion to add my two cents.

I moved uptown last month and have to say the walkability aspect is amazing. Today for example I was able to get all my errands done within a 2 minute walk of my apartment. One of the few things I do that I consistently use my car for is grocery shopping.

[adamuptownsj]

Uptown's geology makes multistory underground grueling. It's all bedrock, so digging is tedious. Even laying new water and sewer infrastructure is more painful than it is in the rest of the city, let alone Fredericton. Even without these challenges they're expensive to build.

A long time ago I proposed a multistory parking facility somewhere reasonably discrete which could actually extend somewhat underground, like beside Trinity Church (behind the Masonic Temple on Germain). A garage for the provincial-federal-hospital complex north of Waterloo should be a good long term plan to open more of the street for development. Maybe somewhere deep south. Mandate selling and developing surface lots for each one, let them be privately built and operated a la Confederation Bridge.

Uptown's population is growing dramatically but still hasn't come close to the historical peak. Off-street surface parking should wane in according with the ParkSJ strategy. But a hypothetical uptown of 15,000+ people, even if car ownership declines/we get a grocery store/etc, will be agonizing for on-street parking. Giving a couple streets double sided parking is a great plan... until it's mid-January.

IDK.

[UptownJeff]

Well the fact remains that until we have an Uptown Core that has all of the services that are currently available in the the burbs, cars are a fact of life. Even if that day comes, and I am optimistic about that, people will still have cars so the most efficient use of space is required. I live and work uptown so I think I can speak with some direct knowledge on the subject. Efficient use of space including traffic patterns, a robust and relevant transit service, one way streets, angle parking and possibly double sided streets for parking can all help. I am confident that as the core grow, Transit will expand (great strides already being made)making the need for a car less but cars are not going to magically disappear so let’s be realistic and make the best use of the resources we have.

[JakeNB]

The discussion about cars is stuck in the mindset that everyone must have their own car. In urban centres like Toronto there are car sharing services that allow for occasional use of cars without the burden of ownership. The city gives priority to car sharing parking. My daughter and her husband live in Toronto and use this service when they need a car. Ensuring that everyone can have a parking space for their own car is a poor use of limited streetscapes. Btw - because they didn’t need the parking spot that came with their apartment, they subleased it for about $400/month.

[ColSJ]

Both the Church of St. John The Baptist church (what was once planned for a rock climbing gym) and the rectory next door (construction was slated for 5 units) have been bough by Kaleidoscope that works out of the Enterprise Saint John hub. On top of creating a space for artist they are looking to build an L shaped residential building on the site with 30-36 units. Construction isn’t expect until 2024.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

The discussion about cars is stuck in the mindset that everyone must have their own car. In urban centres like Toronto there are car sharing services that allow for occasional use of cars without the burden of ownership. The city gives priority to car sharing parking. My daughter and her husband live in Toronto and use this service when they need a car. Ensuring that everyone can have a parking space for their own car is a poor use of limited streetscapes. Btw - because they didn’t need the parking spot that came with their apartment, they subleased it for about $400/month.

I agree with the car sharing services, I think we just got Modo here recently but there is only 1 car. Those new electric busses will be a help too.

It just feels like Saint John (right now) is in that awkward middle stage of public transport/ride sharing/uber etc. However, I do hope that building on Queen Sq gets built. The Sunday market would be bumpin even more!

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

The discussion about cars is stuck in the mindset that everyone must have their own car. In urban centres like Toronto there are car sharing services that allow for occasional use of cars without the burden of ownership. The city gives priority to car sharing parking. My daughter and her husband live in Toronto and use this service when they need a car. Ensuring that everyone can have a parking space for their own car is a poor use of limited streetscapes. Btw - because they didn’t need the parking spot that came with their apartment, they subleased it for about $400/month.

I use carsharing in Toronto and agree that it's great when living downtown without a car. They use up three-to-five parking spots a few minutes away and I can grab one whenever I need one, typically for a trip to Costco or IKEA, before returning it to the same spot again later on. Ideal for apartment and condo dwellers.

Saint John is definitely still in the car-centric mindset. Once there is enough critical mass on the Peninsula things will slowly shift towards more active transportation and public transportation options. I feel like a lot of people in the city view public transportation as something that needs to make a profit, which is...very not what public transport is for and shouldn't be its goal. Public transport in SJ (see: buses) feel designed in a way to get people from its far-flung areas, of which SJ has many, to its core. This is fine, but more people living centrally should lead to more centrally-planned transit as well. Hopefully.

The thing that makes urban centres with things like carsharing viable is that they need consistent, frequent, useful public transit. Carsharing works in Toronto because the TTC subway/streetcar/bus system is fantastic. Public transport is a viable option when it can be better than and compete with driving. Saint John isn't there and won't be for quite some time, but can be with more care and attention and funding.

Something like a Sydney-Waterloo bus every five minutes. Wentworth-Prince Edward bus every five minutes. Union bus every five minutes. King's Square should have an actual, proper bus station terminal. Things like that would go a long way. A system needs to be reliable and frequent for residents to use and rely on.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I use carsharing in Toronto and agree that it's great when living downtown without a car. They use up three-to-five parking spots a few minutes away and I can grab one whenever I need one, typically for a trip to Costco or IKEA, before returning it to the same spot again later on. Ideal for apartment and condo dwellers.

Saint John is definitely still in the car-centric mindset. Once there is enough critical mass on the Peninsula things will slowly shift towards more active transportation and public transportation options. I feel like a lot of people in the city view public transportation as something that needs to make a profit, which is...very not what public transport is for and shouldn't be its goal. Public transport in SJ (see: buses) feel designed in a way to get people from its far-flung areas, of which SJ has many, to its core. This is fine, but more people living centrally should lead to more centrally-planned transit as well. Hopefully.



The thing that makes urban centres with things like carsharing viable is that they need consistent, frequent, useful public transit. Carsharing works in Toronto because the TTC subway/streetcar/bus system is fantastic. Public transport is a viable option when it can be better than and compete with driving. Saint John isn't there and won't be for quite some time, but can be with more care and attention and funding.

Something like a Sydney-Waterloo bus every five minutes. Wentworth-Prince Edward bus every five minutes. Union bus every five minutes. King's Square should have an actual, proper bus station terminal. Things like that would go a long way. A system needs to be reliable and frequent for residents to use and rely on.

Agree completely with this - with density will come more transit options. Loops around the peninsula on a frequent basis, maybe even a trolley system up and down Charlotte or Prince William? I also believe that if UBER ever takes hold here that will also be a game changer.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by UptownJeff

Agree completely with this - with density will come more transit options. Loops around the peninsula on a frequent basis, maybe even a trolley system up and down Charlotte or Prince William? I also believe that if UBER ever takes hold here that will also be a game changer.

Uber isn't the game-changer that people make it out to be. It's better than taxis but comes with its own issues, which is mostly creating more of a gig-based economy both locally and for those who work it. At this point Uber is too expensive and exclusively used by those in middle-class and above, and doesn't solve any of the car-centric issues that car ownership creates. Moving away from cars is preferable if possible.

Not sure a trolley (streetcar?) system would really work or be needed, to be honest.

[UptownJeff]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Uber isn't the game-changer that people make it out to be. It's better than taxis but comes with its own issues, which is mostly creating more of a gig-based economy both locally and for those who work it. At this point Uber is too expensive and exclusively used by those in middle-class and above, and doesn't solve any of the car-centric issues that car ownership creates. Moving away from cars is preferable if possible.

Not sure a trolley (streetcar?) system would really work or be needed, to be honest.

I travel extensively and use UBER pretty much exclusively and I do believe it will be a game changer - I know many people, including myself who would use UBER over a taxi or their own car - the ability to track it and the standards that UBER has for it's cars and drivers make it a much more appealing option - maybe not for everyone but certainly the middle classes and up. The focus of its drivers being gig based isn't an issue as far as I can see - I just want to know that if I want a car within x number of minutes that is clean I can get it. As far as the trolley system, it was a bit tongue in cheek - but why not? You put thousands of additional people with no cars and a looping transport hub starts to make sense. Could also be a neat tourist draw as well. I realize that it's likely not going to happen but why can't we think a little bit outside the box? How about a monorail hahahaha

[ColSJ]

TJ is reporting Brideau wants to begin construction on the Queen Square development within 12 months and do it all in one phase.