Veterans Memorial Parkway - freeway conversion

[TallerIsBetter]

Agree that they don't need to have the freeway to expand the runway. There would be other options.

Where an adjacent freeway comes into play is that it offers a big incentive for significant cargo operations. Especially if it's quick access to the 401, the 402, and whatever the Stratford - Kitchener - N Toronto freeway would be called. This could even open the door to an auto plant or parts or other manufacturing to go in the general area next door.

And the north end freeway around London would actually be very appreciated in 50 years if growth continues N (which is probable).

This is all about a big vision for the future for London. Grow or stagnate. You can still have intensification downtown too. Maybe some 60 story residential towers by then! Maybe London can be the new cool Austin, Texas.

Because Taller is Better!!

[haljackey]

Yes I would use the existing VMP alignment and upgrade Clarke to a freeway to north of Sunningdale. Diamond interchanges are currently proposed which fit into the highway's footprint, less important intersections will be eliminated.
-This keeps the airport area clear and able to expand. Environmentalists would shut down a freeway plan to the east of Fanshawe Lake anyway.
-I find it pretty sad yet hilarious that Highbury was to be the freeway, then VMP, and now a third alignment is proposed further east in that concept lol.

I agree about the 402 connection, it's better if the E-W section of the ring road interchanges with the 402 where it straightens out near Strathroy.

As for a freeway from London to the north, this could provide a fast connection to Highway 7, or possibly be extended all the way towards St. Mary's or Stratford. From there it could hook into an expanded Highway 7/8 and run into Waterloo Region.

This provides redundancy in the provincial highway network so everyone doesn't have to use the 401. I also know people in North London that use this route to get to Toronto currently, getting onto the 401 via Highway 8 in Kitchener rather than driving across London to access the 401.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I never understand the fascination with the idea of a freeway from basically Strathroy to Stratford and KW. Also, as I commented on that thread, not sure why anyone would plan to skip the major N-S roads if you are putting a highway across north London, especially skipping Wonderland. Adelaide would be probably the only one I would consider not putting an interchange if I had to pick 1. I get that the guys on that group like to come up with these things as a sim game or something, but I really question who they think a highway like that is targeted at. You aren't shaving any distance off the drive to KW, Stratford is the only real beneficiary and the highway doesn't really do anything for London either.

I have many coworkers who live in the north side of London, and would be much easier for them to head out on the highways if they had something like that. They all just take the backroads, as for them it makes no sense to drive through London to the 401 or 402. In fact, I would feel many people in North London would feel the same.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

I have many coworkers who live in the north side of London, and would be much easier for them to head out on the highways if they had something like that. They all just take the backroads, as for them it makes no sense to drive through London to the 401 or 402. In fact, I would feel many people in North London would feel the same.

And I would take a freeway from Springbank and Wonderland to the 402 if it existed too, and so would many others. Doesn't mean it makes sense to build it. Getting to the 402 from north London is already ridiculously easy, you wouldn't save any meaningful time getting to it by there being a highway across the north. Same as a new highway going to Stratford and KW. If anyone is taking the north route now to KW to get to the 401 because they don't want to go to the 401 in London, especially with VMP now connected to Clarke, they are basically clueless. With that fantasy highway, you still end up well behind the clock compared to VMP to the 401.

[haljackey]

Yes the next major step for the VMP is to basically turn Clarke into the VMP up to Fanshawe or Sunningdale. The road needs to be twinned all the way to Oxford and the rail overpass built just south of Huron.

In fact if you're building a new rail overpass, keep an embankment on the VMP to overpass Huron. That way you can get an interchange at Huron without too much trouble.

I wish they did this when they twinned Airport Road. If they had some foresight they could have built a new embankment between the CP overpass and Dundas, getting a tight diamond interchange built there.
-But I guess the 2-lane overpass already existed here so it just made more sense to twin it. Band-aid approach... should have been built right from the start as Highway 100.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Yes the next major step for the VMP is to basically turn Clarke into the VMP up to Fanshawe or Sunningdale. The road needs to be twinned all the way to Oxford and the rail overpass built just south of Huron.

In fact if you're building a new rail overpass, keep an embankment on the VMP to overpass Huron. That way you can get an interchange at Huron without too much trouble.

I wish they did this when they twinned Airport Road. If they had some foresight they could have built a new embankment between the CP overpass and Dundas, getting a tight diamond interchange built there.
-But I guess the 2-lane overpass already existed here so it just made more sense to twin it. Band-aid approach... should have been built right from the start as Highway 100.

It is kind of strange that Clarke is supposed to be widened but I haven't seen anything about VMP getting widened. For all intents, Clarke now ends at VMP, with VMP being the continuous road north of that intersection, so if Clarke is being widened to Fanshawe, VMP should be from Clarke down to Oxford as well.

[manny_santos]

How has the road naming been handled? Is it still called Clarke Road north of the VMP extension, or was the VMP name continued north?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

How has the road naming been handled? Is it still called Clarke Road north of the VMP extension, or was the VMP name continued north?

Still Clarke.

[haljackey]

Something to note- since the extension to Clarke/Fanshawe Conservation Area opened, there has been a lot more traffic using the stretch between Oxford and Huron.

This part is only 2 lanes, and it means that you can't get all the cars backed up at a red light at Oxford through in one light cycle. NB at Oxford there is a left turn lane, a through lane and the rightmost lane becomes a dedicated turn lane towards the airport. SB the right turn from Oxford becomes a through lane.

While you may not want to 4-lane this stretch yet (which would hopefully include a rail grade separation), you do want to get 4 through lanes a bit north of Oxford before narrowing. This would roughly double the intersection's throughput for VMP traffic as you would now have 2 lanes going SB, and traffic (hopefully zipper) merging NB once they've passed the Oxford intersection.

The issue is less severe at the Huron intersection, and could wait until the VMP is fully 4-laned. There is a lot more green light time here for VMP traffic.

-----

Also, why is the stretch between Dundas and Oxford signed for 60? I don't think I've ever seen a single vehicle go less than 70 here. The road design is the exact same as the 80 zones. If you want it signed at 60 for whatever reason, design the road for 60. Else up it to 80.

[Djeffery]

It's 60 because of Page St immediately north of the overpass. Tons of traffic turning there, in all directions and a lot of trucks. It resumes 80 immediately north of Page. This is a major speed trap for the police, especially when you are going NB over the bridge. I see them sitting there at least several times a week.

Also drives me crazy how many cars turning right to go south from Oxford sit and wait for cars coming from the north when you don't have to.

[tyeman200]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Also drives me crazy how many cars turning right to go south from Oxford sit and wait for cars coming from the north when you don't have to.

It's cause people wait for the left hand lane to clear when turning right. Just get into the right lane and merge over into the left, very simple and basic driving 101. The whole turning into multiple lanes really makes me mad. Only vehicles that should be allowed to do that are buses and large trucks. Cars should stick to the closest lane they turn into.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by tyeman200

It's cause people wait for the left hand lane to clear when turning right. Just get into the right lane and merge over into the left, very simple and basic driving 101. The whole turning into multiple lanes really makes me mad. Only vehicles that should be allowed to do that are buses and large trucks. Cars should stick to the closest lane they turn into.

I drive a truck, and I don't wait, there is no need. The right lane starts with the turning lane, the through lane from the north is the left lane, and there is one of those pork chop traffic islands to prevent people coming from the north to go directly to the new right lane until past the intersection.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I drive a truck, and I don't wait, there is no need. The right lane starts with the turning lane, the through lane from the north is the left lane, and there is one of those pork chop traffic islands to prevent people coming from the north to go directly to the new right lane until past the intersection.

If you don't know the intersection well I could imagine some hesitation but once you have a clear view, you should realize you get your own lane.

Maybe the city should install this sign to help drivers out:



And yes you should be turning into the correct lane. Right turn= rightmost lane, left turn= leftmost. Obviously longer vehicles can straddle multiple lanes if it's a tighter turn.

I don't often drive big vehicles, but I was able to do correct turns in a U-HAUL. 'U' can too. It's often driver laziness not wanting to turn the steering wheel all the way?

[CanadianTalk]

Interesting idea. That sign would best describe the specific scenario from EB Oxford to SB VMP

However, are these signs common (or even recognized by the MTO) in Ontario? I don't ever recall seeing them anywhere here, but I definitely have seen them in the US and other provinces.

[Djeffery]

I don't know if that sign really helps at that intersection. The sign as shown would be for southbound traffic coming from north of Oxford, which really isn't the problem. I'm not sure what sign would be helpful to tell people hanging a right that they can go, they don't have to wait for traffic. They probably will come up with some kind of sign 6 months before north of Oxford gets turned into 4 lanes (whenever that may happen).

As for trucks turning, a straight truck should have no issue whatsoever. For a tractor trailer, if you have a large sleeper cab and a 53 footer, you may need to take it a bit wider to not run the trailer up the curb. When I've taken a tractor-trailer around there, it's been with a day cab, and I usually straddle the line between the right EB lane and turning lane, then I go direct into the right SB lane without crowding the left lane.

[CanadianTalk]

I'm not sure what the standards are here in Ontario for placing them (or which direction of traffic it's meant for), if they even are allowed here, but I did find an example intersection in Alberta which has the free-flow sign directed at the drivers turning onto the road, not the drivers going straight.



But then again, since these signs are not common here in Ontario. I feel that they won't work as well since people may not know what the sign means.

[Djeffery]

Good find, but you're right, people here wouldn't have any idea.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by CanadianTalk

Interesting idea. That sign would best describe the specific scenario from EB Oxford to SB VMP

However, are these signs common (or even recognized by the MTO) in Ontario? I don't ever recall seeing them anywhere here, but I definitely have seen them in the US and other provinces.

These signs are extremely common out west - BC and Washington both use them extensively.

[ScreamingViking]

https://goo.gl/maps/azfhFZw73vWX1JPc9

Just one example, but I seem to recall seeing more of them around. This road configuration isn't all that common though, hence the signs being relatively rare.

[GreatTallNorth2]

It's 11 years since the original post and it is even more true today - VMP should be a full fledged freeway. And this is not a situation where transit loses if VMP is a freeway, it just makes total sense to have interchanges on a road like the VMP instead of traffic lights (it's safer too)