DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

Something I'm not

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Being fluent...

But I always enjoy your work product and once the Avalanche have wrapped up free agency I'll start digging into the details.
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Pepsi moving to wong's favorite neighborhood


Rendering courtesy of PepsiCo

PepsiCo Acquires 152 Acres for the Construction of 1.2M SQFT Manufacturing Facility
July 13, 2022 - Mile High CRE

PepsiCo Beverages North America (PBNA) has acquired nearly 152 acres of land at the Denver High Point development area where it will build a state-of-the-art, 1.2 million-square-foot manufacturing facility that is set to be the largest, most sustainable PepsiCo Beverages North America plant in the U.S. PepsiCo purchased the site from Westside Investment Partners for an undisclosed price.

This new development, located near the intersection of 72nd Avenue and Argonne Street, holds three times the capacity of the current facility and will be PBNA’s largest U.S. plant location.

Sounds like they have everything lined up as they expect to complete this building next year. Then they'll move out of RiNo so that redevelopment can start.
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Cool Photo courtesy East West Partners



Goettsch Partners Opens Denver Office at the Triangle Building
July 13, 2022 - Mile High CRE

Goettsch Partners has been involved in most (if not all) Riverside Investment's new office towers in Chicago. Goettsch is also familiar, has a relationship with with Golub and Schnitzer West.

[TakeFive]

Adding some spice to the page

Colorado is losing more people with lower incomes
Jul 12, 2022 by: DJ Summers - KDVR/Fox31 Denver

DENVER (KDVR) — Early data suggests Colorado is losing lower- and middle-income people at faster rates than they’re moving in.

Some new info; some old info.

According to Redfin migration data, Denver lost 5,155 people in the first quarter of this year. It had been gaining people until late 2017, when the trend reversed. It intensified during the COVID pandemic, with Denver losing nearly 10,000 people in the second quarter of 2021 alone.

Talk about 'gentrification'

In 2021, nearly 48% of the people who moved into Colorado made more than $150,000 in income, as opposed to only 42% of those moving out.

On the other hand, lower earners are more likely to be moving out. Of outbound movers, 8% made less than $50,000, as opposed to 5% of inbound movers. And 12% of outbound movers made between $50,000-$74,999, compared to 8% of inbound movers.

Earlier in the year we had some revelations of former forumers who had moved on to greener pastures. Wondering if there's any updates out there?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

PepsiCo Acquires 152 Acres for the Construction of 1.2M SQFT Manufacturing Facility
July 13, 2022 - Mile High CRE

Sounds like they have everything lined up as they expect to complete this building next year. Then they'll move out of RiNo so that redevelopment can start.
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Not quite everything lined up.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Adding some spice to the page

Colorado is losing more people with lower incomes
Jul 12, 2022 by: DJ Summers - KDVR/Fox31 Denver

Here we go again. More sloppy journalism.

"According to Redfin migration data, Denver lost 5,155 people in the first quarter of this year."

If the reporter, or anyone bothered to look at the Redfin source, they'll see that these numbers are based on "a sample of about two million Redfin.com users who searched for homes across more than 100 metro areas each quarter, excluding searches unlikely to precede an actual relocation or home purchase."

People searching a private real estate marketing company's website for homes to buy and people actually moving to or from a particular city IS NOT THE SAME THING. The Redfin data may be reflective of a trend that might be validated in the future by Census or other government statistics, but to cite specific numbers like "Denver lost 5,155 people in the first quarter of this year" based on that data is false and misleading.

Also, neither the Fox article nor the TV segment made it clear that "Denver" is actually the entire Denver-Aurora metropolitan area and not the City and County of Denver.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Not quite everything lined up.

Wow.. this would be a large area to infill once the Pepsi bottling plant moves away. The access to the river is awsome! Is it a general understanding that this could be a 'potential' location of any future Bronco's stadium in case Mr.Walton decides to build a new SuperBowl worthy site..?

Gotta think - this would be a pretty cool area for something like this.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Wow.. this would be a large area to infill once the Pepsi bottling plant moves away. The access to the river is awsome! Is it a general understanding that this could be a 'potential' location of any future Bronco's stadium in case Mr.Walton decides to build a new SuperBowl worthy site..?

Gotta think - this would be a pretty cool area for something like this.

Nope. That area is too small. If the stadium moves it’s going out east by the airport most likely. “Aurora” Broncos has a nice ring to it....... /s

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Arkins Promenade is opening today

[TakeFive]

I really like that

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Arkins Promenade is opening today

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Thanks for digging

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Here we go again. More sloppy journalism.

Also, neither the Fox article nor the TV segment made it clear that "Denver" is actually the entire Denver-Aurora metropolitan area and not the City and County of Denver.

Always a bit frustrating not to know 'specifically' but my default position is that with (non-local) sources they're likely talking about the metro area.

Although the 2nd quarter is usually the busiest for relocations that is a bit funky way of drawing any conclusions and it's still a fairly small sample size. It may make a little more sense from a metro POV but agree census confirmation is needed.

I found the socioeconomic distinctions somewhat interesting although again, on a small sample size with small margins it's not likely very reliable.

[TakeFive]

Denver No.10 for Tech Talent in CBRE’s Annual ‘Scoring Tech Talent’ Report
July 14, 2022 -

Specifically, we have seen strong in-migration of tech workers from the San Francisco Bay Area, New York City and Chicago,” said Ryan Link, senior vice president with CBRE’s Tech & Media practice in Denver.

“Fifteen years ago, there were less than five venture capital firms working with Denver-area start-up companies. Today, there are over 20 VC firms active in Denver’s tech ecosystem. The Mile High City is now known for its highly skilled and specialized tech workforce and growing concentration of tech companies. Cracking the top 10 of this list puts Denver in elite company,” Link added.

Our crazy economy

From all that I read there's a new "sober assessment" reverberating through companies in projecting personnel needs going forward. A lot of Big Tech companies are trimming their workforce but it's generally modest and at the margin.

Retail is soft and many companies, most notably Amazon have decided they have waay too much warehouse space and goods.

On the bright side manufacturing is doing well as many companies look to do less importing and produce more goods locally from tech chips to appliances.

San Francisco and the Bay Area are still struggling mightily with having excess space. For example:

Salesforce Giving Up 350K SF In Downtown S.F. In Latest Blow To City's Office Market
July 13, 2022 By Joseph Gordon, Bisnow San Francisco Bay Area

Denver should be positioned well enough I don't see any particular trouble ahead, aside from not being a manufacturing kind of place.

[TakeFive]

Why am I not surprised

Colorado businesses say new retail delivery fee hurts them more than Amazon, DoorDash
Jul 14, 2022 By Ed Sealover – Senior Reporter, Denver Business Journal

Smaller companies and contractors worry 'we’re just collateral damage for an implementation that’s been clunky.'

A recently enacted delivery fee in Colorado, which was promoted as a fee on Amazon and DoorDash to improve transportation infrastructure, is impacting a much broader swath of companies that deliver any sold products to customers.

Businesses in recent weeks have voiced increasing concerns about the retail delivery fee, a 27-cent-per-trip that launched on July 1 after being passed as a provision in the $5.3 billion infrastructure funding bill that Gov. Jared Polis signed into law last year.

This is one good example of Colorado becoming less business-friendly and at a time when governments are flush with money. The fact that Colorado flavored representatives fight over 'big ideas' at the little guys expense is unseemly. As if it wasn't hard enough out there and will likely get even harder for little guys... I shake my head.

Speaking from my own experience approximately 25% of my Uber riders are among the poorest of the poor, but they have jobs and need a way to get back and forth to work. Another 25% are one step up, they're average Joe's and Juanita's that need to work to pay the rent, feed the kids.

The other half (since I like to work after dark), many do rideshare when they plan to drink for entertainment or even to have a nice meal. Taking rideshare to the airport is a much more efficient use of their time and is better than having their car stolen from airport parking.

The irony is that one fee is not that much, shouldn't be a big deal but OTOH why even bother with the nuisance. For small business it's added paper work and man-hours just to comply.

Just my opinion that being business unfriendly is not smart.

[bunt_q]

But raising the gas tax was seen as politically untenable. I guess that was before a pandemic trained us all to have literally everything delivered.

I am curious whether this eliminates the “part of my Amazon order arrived earlier” convenience we’ve come to know and love. If they split an order now, I believe they have to eat the additional fee they didn’t charge me. So it slows stuff down, too, I think?

But it is going to generate oodles of transportation money. Should be good for bike lanes (that will slow down the UPS truck even more) since we don’t do roads anymore. That’s the only thing that irks me about the fee - we don’t need the money.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

That’s the only thing that irks me about the fee - we don’t need the money.

Proper maintenance and cleaning would be helpful - I drove through Germany, Austria, and Italy earlier in the spring and had forgotten what roads looked like in a first world country. Even in tiny rural mountain towns the pavement was nice and smooth and drivable and not pockmarked with holes and random piles of trash. Some of our local streets resemble 4WD paths in the mountains.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

Proper maintenance and cleaning would be helpful - I drove through Germany, Austria, and Italy earlier in the spring and had forgotten what roads looked like in a first world country. Even in tiny rural mountain towns the pavement was nice and smooth and drivable and not pockmarked with holes and random piles of trash. Some of our local streets resemble 4WD paths in the mountains.

100%.

Leave it to others to decide whether some of the starvation is intentional neglect.

[Ich]

Look like Fox Park and WTC broke ground this week. Glad to see that moving forward.

https://www.trybaarchitects.com/news/fox-park-world-trade-center-groundbreaking-ceremony

[TakeFive]

A whole new transportation system

Originally Posted by bunt_q

But raising the gas tax was seen as politically untenable. I guess that was before a pandemic trained us all to have literally everything delivered.

I am curious whether this eliminates the “part of my Amazon order arrived earlier” convenience we’ve come to know and love. If they split an order now, I believe they have to eat the additional fee they didn’t charge me. So it slows stuff down, too, I think?

But it is going to generate oodles of transportation money. Should be good for bike lanes (that will slow down the UPS truck even more) since we don’t do roads anymore. That’s the only thing that irks me about the fee - we don’t need the money.

The irony has been that RTD has their own generous dedicated revenue stream; and what percentage of people do they move? lol

The irony of the supposed "user" tax/fee is that the middleman - carriers aren't going to eat that; they simply pass it on to the customer or business. They probably itemize it on the 'Way Bill.'

Rideshare - Luxury or Necessity?

For many people it's a lifeline for accepting the job offer they found on Indeed.com or ZipRecruiter. For women it's their convenient, comfy, security ride to work; tons of women who choose rideshare would not ride a bus (so it's better than all of them driving to work).

Consider that (when I drive) I'll get two to three trips an hour. It's hardly an efficient way to move a lot of people.

Downtown Denver Commuters

With a rapidly growing population/density, common sense tells me a shuttle-style service would work best for downtown residents. I see where RTD has ordered 17 New Flyer, 40-foot zero-emission buses. Why not have shuttle service utilizing 30-foot Electric buses circulating all day long through all that density. This would be separate from, in addition to more standard commuter service which would be much less frequent.

The new work model should be reflected in transit service

There appears to be new work model of going into the office (downtown) three days a week; Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, especially for tech companies. This will vary depending on type of business. If this does become an embedded pattern it would only make sense to run more service on the heavy days and less on the less busy day - for commuters.

Just my opinion

As we presumably head into a period of stagflation in will be important to find efficiencies and better manage transit costs.

[TakeFive]

That's a cool link

Originally Posted by Ich

Look like Fox Park and WTC broke ground this week. Glad to see that moving forward.

https://www.trybaarchitects.com/news/fox-park-world-trade-center-groundbreaking-ceremony

It's good to see progress for that project even if 'going vertical' will be decided next summer. Gotta do the prep before getting REALLY serious.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

A whole new transportation system

The irony has been that RTD has their own generous dedicated revenue stream; and what percentage of people do they move? lol

The irony of the supposed "user" tax/fee is that the middleman - carriers aren't going to eat that; they simply pass it on to the customer or business. They probably itemize it on the 'Way Bill.'

Rideshare - Luxury or Necessity?

For many people it's a lifeline for accepting the job offer they found on Indeed.com or ZipRecruiter. For women it's their convenient, comfy, security ride to work; tons of women who choose rideshare would not ride a bus (so it's better than all of them driving to work).

Consider that (when I drive) I'll get two to three trips an hour. It's hardly an efficient way to move a lot of people.

Downtown Denver Commuters

With a rapidly growing population/density, common sense tells me a shuttle-style service would work best for downtown residents. I see where RTD has ordered 17 New Flyer, 40-foot zero-emission buses. Why not have shuttle service utilizing 30-foot Electric buses circulating all day long through all that density. This would be separate from, in addition to more standard commuter service which would be much less frequent.

The new work model should be reflected in transit service

There appears to be new work model of going into the office (downtown) three days a week; Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, especially for tech companies. This will vary depending on type of business. If this does become an embedded pattern it would only make sense to run more service on the heavy days and less on the less busy day - for commuters.

Just my opinion

As we presumably head into a period of stagflation in will be important to find efficiencies and better manage transit costs.

Article for TakeFive: https://denverite.com/2022/07/14/denver-...,around%20the%20world%20from%20NetCredit.

Anecdotally, I do not know anybody who uses rideshare in the way you describe. Granted, that's not much of a dataset. But it could be related to the pricing.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Wow.. this would be a large area to infill once the Pepsi bottling plant moves away. The access to the river is awsome! Is it a general understanding that this could be a 'potential' location of any future Bronco's stadium in case Mr.Walton decides to build a new SuperBowl worthy site..?

Gotta think - this would be a pretty cool area for something like this.

I would totally vote for a new stadium here. Reminds me of the location in Minneapolis where the vikings put there star wars stands. Not sure it's quite big enough if parking is a main driver, but could be a helluva location!

[SirLucasTheGreat]

It would be an incredible location. I wonder if they could acquire any other adjacent land to make room for sufficient parking (RTD, Westfield, etc...). Even if they could lease the parking lot from the National Western Coliseum, that would help.

[jimijam35]

they could tear down the denver colisuem move out the forney museum- plenty of land- parking would be north of the 170.. stock show gets a new stadium too use.. but my first choice would redo current stadium like they did in Madrid (real madrid)