PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

If you think the 'crowd' that hangs out along Chestnut is equivalent to the few people who linger around the Dunkin Donuts at Broad and Snyder, I'm going to throw it out there that you haven't spent enough time in either place. I would garner 80% of all visible homeless outside of Kensington is perched between 5th to 16th between Walnut and Arch. It's unfortunate, but Philly's 'skid row' was always on the backside of East Market.

Yes, I’m way off base to think one of the three locations in the city that installed blue lights may also have problems.

Im sure both have issues. They obviously do.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I deleted my Reddit account due to the state of r/Philadelphia. It has descended past the point of civil debate in most discussions and everyone there is either "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG" or "EVERYTHING —." It's become very polarizing.

It's the mods fault. Other city subreddits block people from just — posting crime stories repeatedly every single morning with the same under cover racist comments by the OPs attached. r/Philadelphia really is unbearable, because like you said, there is another opposite faction that is like "LARRY KRASNER IS THE NEXT COMING OF JESUS". I use to be a big contributor to the subreddit for years, but don't ever go on anymore. It wasn't good for my mental health.

[Raja]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I deleted my Reddit account due to the state of r/Philadelphia. It has descended past the point of civil debate in most discussions and everyone there is either "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG" or "EVERYTHING —." It's become very polarizing.

I mean, yeah, but if anybody here wants an actual primary source for working at the Starbucks at 10th & Chestnut rather than just theorizing about unionization or whatever, go read the comment from somebody who actually worked there.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Gatorade_Jim

Starbucks closing at 10th and Chestnut citing safety concerns. Also closing 14 other stores nationwide so not sure what to make of the closure. Could be an attempt at union-busting, and considering their proposal to open a new spot for pickups on Chestnut in Rittenhouse, along with the leasing momentum right now, doesn’t worry me too much. Not like there’s a lack of Starbucks in that area to begin with. Just — to lose a long-term anchor tenant like that.

I figured the one in/near Macy's would have more issues than 10th/Chestnut. But I haven't been to either in a long time so I don't know their state.

I wish Starbucks never caved to the open bathroom policy, a lot of the issues (nationwide) stem from that. I've seen it firsthand in NYC.

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

It's the mods fault. Other city subreddits block people from just — posting crime stories repeatedly every single morning with the same under cover racist comments by the OPs attached. r/Philadelphia really is unbearable, because like you said, there is another opposite faction that is like "LARRY KRASNER IS THE NEXT COMING OF JESUS". I use to be a big contributor to the subreddit for years, but don't ever go on anymore. It wasn't good for my mental health.

Part of the reason why I muted the Philadelphia Design/Policy FB group, it became a breeding ground for trolls on both ends of the spectrum. Also, 6abc reported on this and boy did the trolls come out, really sad.

I am glad this group keeps it civil even when we debate.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

We had this discussion awhile ago and I think it would be a worthwhile pursuit to discuss it again, provided we keep it civil.

On one hand, methadone clincs provide an important service for staving people off of opiate addiction (especially heroin) and deserve to be at places easily accessible by public transportation.

On the other hand, the presence of a methadone clinic can be associated with higher crime and homelessness activity in the area it is built. Is Center City a good place for one, then?

I do not think that CC is still a good place for any of them. At some point you need to pick a lane* and go all in. The feel good socioeconomic, addicts, etc., debates are nice but they are only good on paper and just not reality and the two do not coincide well. The big issue I still see with CC is that it is two extremes with not as much middle and it's just not working and keeping it from its fullest potential. Yes, sometimes city life produces these things by default but a lot of this can be corrected with the proper steps.

*As in a safe and welcoming environment for entertainment, shopping, restaurants, living, etc.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Part of the reason why I muted the Philadelphia Design/Policy FB group, it became a breeding ground for trolls on both ends of the spectrum. Also, 6abc reported on this and boy did the trolls come out, really sad.

I am glad this group keeps it civil even when we debate.

Well, the problem with the FB group is that it became fully infected with Ernest Owens-type NIMBY characters. I call it 'Northwest Philly' syndrome. People who can consciously ignore all the bad things that occur in Philly and still 100% advocate that nothing can be changed because they're very comfortable with the status quo.

It's the type of person who votes for Helen Gym. They complain for years about the school district being "defunded" and "underfunded", and then when tax assessments show the city improving and having the ability to collect more revenue, they cut property taxes to keep the schools underfunded to maintain the status quo.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I deleted my Reddit account due to the state of r/Philadelphia. It has descended past the point of civil debate in most discussions and everyone there is either "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG" or "EVERYTHING —." It's become very polarizing.

The only thing I post on the Philly sub is Pictures, and luckily I get good reviews and upvotes on it, because my god they will tear you apart in there if you don't post something everyone agrees with.

But like someone said it's the mods fault there is no Moderation happening in that thread, and while I don't like overly power tripping moderation is it needed to a certain degree.

This Forum is one of the few I've been on that actually doesn't go heavy handed with moderation even when a conversation goes on, and I truly appreciate it (Summers, Mcgrath and others).

Years before I used to be on AAROADS's forum and the toxic and favoritism the mods and users would play just pushed me off of it, it's sad really and it's still like that till this day.

[iheartphilly]

^
Speaking of Macy's @ the Wanamaker Bldg, one time I was in there and a crazy lady was verbally assaulting customers. Luckily people just stepped away from her and she didn't physically attack anyone. I applauded the Macy's security guard and employee to keep telling her to leave the store. After about 100th time, she did and the situation when back to normal. I'm sure all of us have real life experiences with this sort of nonsense.

[cubanChris]

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite

Unlikely-- the supermarket's lease goes until 2038 and the McDonald's and liquor stores leases are even longer. There are also quite a few properties between the shopping center and Pennovation-- one is about to have a huge storage facility built on it.

The most logical expansion of Pennovation is onto the land Penn purchased in 2019 across the street on the southeast corner of Grays Ferry and 35th and the billboard property at 3115R Grays Ferry.

FWIW – I drove by that McDonalds a week ago and it was shut and gated all around. Unsure if that is temporary or not...

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Well, the problem with the FB group is that it became fully infected with Ernest Owens-type NIMBY characters. I call it 'Northwest Philly' syndrome. People who can consciously ignore all the bad things that occur in Philly and still 100% advocate that nothing can be changed because they're very comfortable with the status quo.

It's the type of person who votes for Helen Gym. They complain for years about the school district being "defunded" and "underfunded", and then when tax assessments show the city improving and having the ability to collect more revenue, they cut property taxes to keep the schools underfunded to maintain the status quo.

I think it’s rich that Krasner lives in Chestnut Hill which is about as privileged and sheltered as it gets in the city. Lol

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Part of the reason why I muted the Philadelphia Design/Policy FB group, it became a breeding ground for trolls on both ends of the spectrum. Also, 6abc reported on this and boy did the trolls come out, really sad.

I am glad this group keeps it civil even when we debate.

I don't think the Philly Facebook group is bad, most people in there are pretty sensible. I think what happens is it's a mix of older and younger people from the city and suburbs so you get mixed views and weird statements from people who are stuck on what they think the city should have been compared to what it is now.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I do not think that CC is still a good place for any of them. At some point you need to pick a lane* and go all in. The feel good socioeconomic, addicts, etc., debates are nice but they are only good on paper and just not reality and the two do not coincide well. The big issue I still see with CC is that it is two extremes with not as much middle and it's just not working and keeping it from its fullest potential. Yes, sometimes city life produces these things by default but a lot of this can be corrected with the proper steps.

*As in a safe and welcoming environment for entertainment, shopping, restaurants, living, etc.

I think, ultimately, I am inclined to agree. Establishments like that cannot continue to exist in those locations if we want Center City to be the environment you describe. The clinic existing in East Market should be moved (along with any others in CC) to somewhere in the Northeast/Northwest along transit corridors in those respective regions.

Is this kicking the can down the line for when those areas start to gentrify? Perhaps, but it has become evident that we can't let this situation continue.

[skyhigh07]

Anyone know if more methodone clinics have recently opened within the area or if there are any restrictions applied to them? Or is the issue generally related to the growing Opioid Epidemic?

That particular Starbucks has been there for at least 15 years. So they must have noticed some relatively recent changes to make such a drastic decision.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

Anyone know if more methodone clinics have recently opened within the area or if there are any restrictions applied to them? Or is the issue generally related to the growing Opioid Epidemic?

That particular Starbucks has been there for at least 15 years. So they must have noticed some relatively recent changes to make such a drastic decision.

East Market was always sketchier than its western cousin, but I think that things have gotten worse because of the growing opioid epidemic. I think that specific clinic has been there for quite awhile.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

I think it’s rich that Krasner lives in Chestnut Hill which is about as privileged and sheltered as it gets in the city. Lol

When city council was making a stink about Police Officers and first responders having to live in Philadelphia to join, I kept thinking City Council should have to live in the inner city to join. These people pay themselves these big salaries and live out in NW Philadelphia were a police officer most likely would not be able to afford a house, and then turn around and act all holier than thou. It's a frustrating situation that people who are largely not effected by the decline in persecution of Quality-of-life crimes generally don't see that as a problem.

[skyhigh07]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

East Market was always sketchier than its western cousin, but I think that things have gotten worse because of the growing opioid epidemic. I think that specific clinic has been there for quite awhile.

Yeah I’m not too versed on the methadone clinic situation over there. Wondering if there’s just one or are there several? Might be a good issue to bring up with Squilla.

[summersm343]

1. Wow... I didn't realize one Starbucks closing would cause such a stir. Who the F cares? There's literally 30 Starbucks in Center City alone.

2. Market East/East Market/whatever you want to call it is definitely on the upward trajectory overall but obviously still has it's lingering problems. I wouldn't worry too much about one Starbucks closing. Something much better will fill this space.

3. There are obviously crime issues in Center City from time to time (Philadelphia is a high crime city and it trickles into Center City from time to time), but if you don't think Center City is a safe place to dine, shop and be entertained.... you're really just afraid of life. Center City is really very safe with any small amount of street smarts 99% of the time.

4. Out of all of the cities in the US that I've been to, Philadelphia is absolutely one of the better cities when it comes to homelessness (at least downtown). It's FAR FAR better than places like Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle... that's for sure...

5. Starbucks is disgusting. If you live anywhere near a mom and pop coffee shop and you're going to Starbucks, please stop, and support small businesses. They're the lifeblood of the city (or your local town) and I PROMISE you that you will get much better coffee and food. Within a FOUR BLOCK RADIUS of this Starbucks store is FOUR other Starbucks stores, PLUS Cogito Coffee, Bower Coffee, Capriccio Cafe, Passero's Coffee Roasters, Thank You Thank You Coffee and Cafe Walnut.... and I'm sure there's one or two I'm missing. There's also two Wawa's and at least four Dunkin Donuts....

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

It's the mods fault. Other city subreddits block people from just — posting crime stories repeatedly every single morning with the same under cover racist comments by the OPs attached. r/Philadelphia really is unbearable, because like you said, there is another opposite faction that is like "LARRY KRASNER IS THE NEXT COMING OF JESUS". I use to be a big contributor to the subreddit for years, but don't ever go on anymore. It wasn't good for my mental health.

Yeah, it's difficult finding people with civil debates. The discord is not that much better either. I get annoying by the people who are anti bike or anti transit infrastructure. It's so tiring fighting those people.

[jaysb]

Originally Posted by summersm343

5. Starbucks is disgusting. If you live anywhere near a mom and pop coffee shop and you're going to Starbucks, please stop, and support small businesses. They're the lifeblood of the city (or your local town) and I PROMISE you that you will get much better coffee and food. Within a FOUR BLOCK RADIUS of this Starbucks store is FOUR other Starbucks stores, PLUS Cogito Coffee, Bower Coffee, Capriccio Cafe, Passero's Coffee Roasters, Thank You Thank You Coffee and Cafe Walnut.... and I'm sure there's one or two I'm missing. There's also two Wawa's and at least four Dunkin Donuts....

Hell ya, Passeros rocks!

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I do not think that CC is still a good place for any of them. At some point you need to pick a lane* and go all in. The feel good socioeconomic, addicts, etc., debates are nice but they are only good on paper and just not reality and the two do not coincide well. The big issue I still see with CC is that it is two extremes with not as much middle and it's just not working and keeping it from its fullest potential. Yes, sometimes city life produces these things by default but a lot of this can be corrected with the proper steps.

*As in a safe and welcoming environment for entertainment, shopping, restaurants, living, etc.

Unfortunately we have let problem grow to a large scale that it can't be easily combatted with just moving the CC clinic. Kensington continues to suffer along with the mfl.

I'm not sure if we can get majority of the addicts into treatment quick enough but also providing opportunities for stable housing and jobs.