Destination V [555, ch Vanier] | ?m | ?f | U/C

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Your answer: the first family of Chinese origin to settle in the Aylmer area.

https://www3.gatineau.ca/servicesenligne/BanqueNom/NomDetail.aspx?NoDossier=3549

I kinda like the way we choose street names (now).

Nice! Does this site have all Gatineau street names? I whish Ottawa had a searchable database like this.

[Capital613]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Welcome to the forum!

Merci. I was following you guys for a while, was time for me to subscribe. Thanks again

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Nice! Does this site have all Gatineau street names? I whish Ottawa had a searchable database like this.

Yes, and there is also a good one for all of Quebec.

http://www.toponymie.gouv.qc.ca/ct/toposweb/recherche.aspx

Though it's dependent upon municipalities providing info on a name.

Ottawa has a database somewhere of proposed names for new streets. Kind of a "bank" of names that developers (I assume) can or must use to name new streets. But AFAIK nothing for all of the existing streets in the city.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capital613

By the old plans, we could expect 3 restaurants there or even 4. With no doubt they will have at least 2. Hoping its not another tim hortons or mcdo. Cage aux sports is working great in the area. I would love to see restaurants that you find in mtl, TO or just ottawa. 3 brewers would fit great there or even zibo, souvlaki bar, carlos n pepe...out of subject, i know aubainerie will open a new store on the plateau area, hoping it ll be in the smartcenter. Adonis would be amazing in the area, i bet it would be always full. Decathlon would be also amazing.

3 Brasseurs seems like a stretch for that location. They seem to go for high-traffic urban locations or much larger retail complexes than this when they go to the suburbs. (I would have loved to see them in the old Chez Henri on Portage instead of a Boston Pizza there.)

I am sure there will be a few restaurants with probably one (maybe 2 if they're lucky) sit-down place.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Mia Pasta or Mr. Puffs types of places there.

Maybe a Scores, since there isn't one in west of the Gatineau River anymore since the Mont-Bleu location closed.

[Acajack]

I don't think it matters as much for a Dollarama which people will seemingly walk over hot coals to get to, but one thing is that if I were a prospective restaurant owner looking to drop $$$$$$$ on a new location, I'd wanna see a pretty robust traffic improvement and management plan for Destination V and have assurances from the city that it will happen ASAP before I'd wanna hang my shingle there.

Because right now it doesn't exactly scream "easy access" to me. (I am in the area from time to time and it's always a PITA going through there. Even now.)

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by phil235

I think you are misusing the term NIMBY. Those of us critiquing this proposal are not opposed to development, we are opposed to continuing with more car centric development of this variety. I have yet to hear anything that separates this from the misguided big box around a parking lot style development that has been going on for 30 years. Throwing a few apartment buildings at the back of a parking lot does not make it mixed use.

I get that the area needs more retail and restaurants. That doesn't mean that this is the right way to build them.

You keep saying that this is a good first step. What exactly is it a good first step towards? I don't see any possibility for this to develop into anything better without a complete redesign.

Hi Phil - The first step is to build the commercial area. Once that is done, they always reconfigure these plazas based on consumer and economic demand. If you notice how all new plazas are made, there are no basements to these buildings, so it is much more flexible to repurpose. Second, hopefully this will spawn them expanding Vanier, the traffic is horrible during the mornings and afternoons and will only get worse once Destination V is done. Also, if you look at the original city plans, there is supposed to be an exit on Allumetieres before Vanier for drivers going west that will exit onto Katimavik. This should help alleviate traffic.

Also, the land and the north side of Plateau and Vanier is slated for commercial, so hopefully that spawns something as well.

[jt-mtl]

I used to travel from Aylmer to the Detroit area before COVID as my in laws live there.

They have one plaza which would have been perfect for this area, but what can you do. If you want to see a great design/concept/approach to creating community engagement in a walkable big box plaza, search for the Village of Rochester Hills. Instead of spreading out stores to the outside of a commercial area, you bring them closer to create walkable areas with community events. We always spend time there, either summer or winter.

Here is the website: https://thevorh.com/

and here is an image of the area which would have easily fit in that space:

[phil235]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

Hi Phil - The first step is to build the commercial area. Once that is done, they always reconfigure these plazas based on consumer and economic demand. If you notice how all new plazas are made, there are no basements to these buildings, so it is much more flexible to repurpose. Second, hopefully this will spawn them expanding Vanier, the traffic is horrible during the mornings and afternoons and will only get worse once Destination V is done. Also, if you look at the original city plans, there is supposed to be an exit on Allumetieres before Vanier for drivers going west that will exit onto Katimavik. This should help alleviate traffic.

Also, the land and the north side of Plateau and Vanier is slated for commercial, so hopefully that spawns something as well.

The plaza in your second post is definitely a step up from this one. I believe is is a "lifestyle centre", with higher end retail and a pretty large trade area from which it draws. Not sure if the one you visited had anything more than retail and restaurants, but the better ones have a lot of residential on top of the stores. They still tend to be pretty car-centric in terms of the mode of transportation that people use to get there, and the real trick is integrating them into the surrounding areas. But they do give much more attention to the pedestrian experience, which is a good first step.

I now understand your point, in that the commercial buildings are essentially disposable (lifespan of 15-20 years), and they can be taken down and replaced relatively easily. I think that's true, and it may be possible to do a staged rebuild a la Westgate, provided they are willing to spend the money to completely redo the parking and landscaping amenities. I just don't understand why they can't do that kind of proper planning right off the bat

[J.OT13]

The plaza in Rocherster Hills reminds me of Kanata Centrum and Orleans town centre. Very car centric despite both having major transit stations adjacent to them.

The idea that these box store plazas can be demolished and re-organized based on consumer demand is not good. It further encourages our disposable society mentality. The Buildings in the ByWard Market, Vieux Montréal, Europe... has been repurposed countless times despite being century(ies) old. So why is re-building a big box plaza every 20 years a good thing?

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

Hi Phil - The first step is to build the commercial area. Once that is done, they always reconfigure these plazas based on consumer and economic demand. If you notice how all new plazas are made, there are no basements to these buildings, so it is much more flexible to repurpose. Second, hopefully this will spawn them expanding Vanier, the traffic is horrible during the mornings and afternoons and will only get worse once Destination V is done. Also, if you look at the original city plans, there is supposed to be an exit on Allumetieres before Vanier for drivers going west that will exit onto Katimavik. This should help alleviate traffic.

Also, the land and the north side of Plateau and Vanier is slated for commercial, so hopefully that spawns something as well.

A Westbound exit at Katimavik would a fantastic pressure valve. What this neighbourhood really needs is a full intersection between Des Grives and Vanier. Unfortunately it is not part of the plan. It's far too long a stretch between exits and the five traffic circles on Du Plateau are jammed all day and night already. I am not looking forward to the thousands of new units being built with the current traffic situation. The ongoing 4 lane expansion of Pink on the North edge of the neighbourhood will provide some relief at least.

[IMG]Screenshot 2021-02-02 112800 by harley613, on Flickr[/IMG]

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The plaza in Rocherster Hills reminds me of Kanata Centrum and Orleans town centre. Very car centric despite both having major transit stations adjacent to them.

It's actually 10 times nicer than Kanata Centrum and 100 times nicer than Orleans Centrum!

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The plaza in Rocherster Hills reminds me of Kanata Centrum and Orleans town centre. Very car centric despite both having major transit stations adjacent to them.

The idea that these box store plazas can be demolished and re-organized based on consumer demand is not good. It further encourages our disposable society mentality. The Buildings in the ByWard Market, Vieux Montréal, Europe... has been repurposed countless times despite being century(ies) old. So why is re-building a big box plaza every 20 years a good thing?

Hey J.OT13 - Not necessarily a good or bad thing to rebuild, but to adjust based on market demand and adjusting to it. For example, the Walmart in the Plateau adjusted their layout to accommodate groceries but if you think back now, it was hardly noticeable the time they spent to adjust. Another example is further west on Allumietieres & Front, the TD Bank was converted to a Pharmaprix (don't really know why), but these types of buildings allow for quick conversions.

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The plaza in Rocherster Hills reminds me of Kanata Centrum and Orleans town centre. Very car centric despite both having major transit stations adjacent to them.

The idea that these box store plazas can be demolished and re-organized based on consumer demand is not good. It further encourages our disposable society mentality. The Buildings in the ByWard Market, Vieux Montréal, Europe... has been repurposed countless times despite being century(ies) old. So why is re-building a big box plaza every 20 years a good thing?

Hey J.OT13, watch this video, it is a great insight into why food chain restaurant buildings nowadays are looking the same. They all follow a same formula:

1. Big Boxy Building
2. Big Sign
3. Wood Panels
4. Brightly Lit
5. Big Windows

(Le Cage in the Plataeau follows this model)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7sQEU6gXE4


Also, I read a while back a book called NO LOGO, where they mentioned the building itself becomes part of the brand. An example...if I take away the SHELL Logo and wordmark, based on the building design you would know that is a SHELL gas station - Tim Hortons is another example and why they became successful in the 90s-2000s - based on their building designs and sign shape, people subliminally knew it while driving and it invoked the need for a coffee

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by jt-mtl

Hey J.OT13 - Not necessarily a good or bad thing to rebuild, but to adjust based on market demand and adjusting to it. For example, the Walmart in the Plateau adjusted their layout to accommodate groceries but if you think back now, it was hardly noticeable the time they spent to adjust. Another example is further west on Allumietieres & Front, the TD Bank was converted to a Pharmaprix (don't really know why), but these types of buildings allow for quick conversions.

Based on your and Phil's comments, I was under the impression that the buildings were built to be demolished in order to reconfigure the entire site. That's a bad thing. Waste of materials. Bad for the environment.

And yes, I've seen that video before. Quite depressing. Even the suburban strips of the 60s and 70s where every fast food restaurant, motel and gas station had a distinctive look and bright neon lights were better than the generic big box streets we have now. I've been living in Orleans for 4 years and I still get lost on Innes because everything looks the same.

[jt-mtl]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Based on your and Phil's comments, I was under the impression that the buildings were built to be demolished in order to reconfigure the entire site. That's a bad thing. Waste of materials. Bad for the environment.

And yes, I've seen that video before. Quite depressing. Even the suburban strips of the 60s and 70s where every fast food restaurant, motel and gas station had a distinctive look and bright neon lights were better than the generic big box streets we have now. I've been living in Orleans for 4 years and I still get lost on Innes because everything looks the same.

Oh man, I am in Orleans at least once a week, Innes is a great example of a commercial area zoned for primarily for the automobile - No central area, just an elongated commercial strip on stores dependant on driving to get to. You would think they would zone mid to high rise residential development along Innes, but it would still be dependant on the automobile.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Harley613

A Westbound exit at Katimavik would a fantastic pressure valve.

I have a map from 2007 showing that pressure valve to Katimavik, so it's been in the works for a long time.

[cprail]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wouldn't be surprised to see Mia Pasta or Mr. Puffs types of places there.

There is now a (huge) Mr. Puffs sign on a yet to open building.

[harls]

Originally Posted by cprail

There is now a (huge) Mr. Puffs sign on a yet to open building.

There was a post on Facebook about a month ago about them opening and looking to hire.

[harls]

Last week they paved some more paradise and put up another parking lot. Looks fantastic.

There was a post on reddit a few weeks ago showing some moron driving down the bike path to avoid the congestion on Vanier. Genius.

Just yesterday, I witnessed some dumb-ass trying to take a left turn southbound by the Maxi onto Vanier. A large pickup truck was in front of him gesturing profanities.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by harls

Last week they paved some more paradise and put up another parking lot. Looks fantastic.

There was a post on reddit a few weeks ago showing some moron driving down the bike path to avoid the congestion on Vanier. Genius.

Just yesterday, I witnessed some dumb-ass trying to take a left turn southbound by the Maxi onto Vanier. A large pickup truck was in front of him gesturing profanities.

That bike lane idea isn't bad really...I recently spent 45 minutes waiting to cross Allummetieres Southbound on Vanier 😂.