Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[Metro-One]

Yep, the entire project would have been completed by now.

[Tysonbrown]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yep, the entire project would have been completed by now.

Every single Mayor in the Metro Vancouver area...is against a Bridge.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Tysonbrown

Every single Mayor in the Metro Vancouver area...is against a Bridge.

Wasn't Delta the outlier in favour?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Tysonbrown

Every single Mayor in the Metro Vancouver area...is against a Bridge.

does it really matter that small minded, singularly focused mayors have to say? they weren't thinking regionally, nor were they thinking about the international exchange of good between BC & the USA.

Mayors will always only think about their little circle of land, it is up to the province, federal governments to think in big picture, broad strokes.

this is why the TransLink mayors council was so dysfunctional back in the early 2000s.

the Canada Line we have today ALMOST DIDN'T HAPPEN, and people say it is undersized, this is BECAUSE of the mayors.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

the Canada Line we have today ALMOST DIDN'T HAPPEN, and people say it is undersized, this is BECAUSE of the mayors.

No, that decision was not universal, it was some mayors in particular against it, namely Burnaby's mayor because they already had 2 Skytrain lines and didn't want to pay for one that didn't go through their city.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

No, that decision was not universal, it was some mayors in particular against it, namely Burnaby's mayor because they already had 2 Skytrain lines and didn't want to pay for one that didn't go through their city.

sure, wasn't universal, doesn't change the fact it was voted down 2x, and downgraded because of the mayors. if it was only 1 mayor, it would have passed without needing compromises and wouldn't have taken 3 votes.

my point still stands, the mayors are thinking only about themselves and it has hurt us in the past, the Canada Line being the most recent.

we shouldn't just let mayors decide the region when they dont give a crap about anything outside their borders.

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

sure, wasn't universal, doesn't change the fact it was voted down 2x, and downgraded because of the mayors. if it was only 1 mayor, it would have passed without needing compromises and wouldn't have taken 3 votes.

my point still stands, the mayors are thinking only about themselves and it has hurt us in the past, the Canada Line being the most recent.

we shouldn't just let mayors decide the region when they dont give a crap about anything outside their borders.

to add to that, even if they voted for the project, the mayors will still find ways to make stupid demands.

like wanting single track between Brighouse and Lansdowne
or
not replacing the pedestrian overpass when Metrotown station got rebuilt

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

to add to that, even if they voted for the project, the mayors will still find ways to make stupid demands.

like wanting single track between Brighouse and Lansdowne
or
not replacing the pedestrian overpass when Metrotown station got rebuilt

this forum is kind of funny.

you have people complaining about the Canada-Line, which was the mayors council fault, (the mayors). and then you have people saying "well the mayors were against it!" they only like the mayors when they agree with them. then use technicalities to try to make an argument. i mean how does 1 mayor cause a project to fail during a majority vote? they DONT. takes more than 1 vote.

this is what happens when you have a weak central government leadership. in this case, the provincial NDP. they created the council originally, and then i believe they are the ones who restablished it recently. the mayors council is a way for the provincial NDP to use it as a cop-out; politics. they can use it as "giving the locals a say!" knowing how dysfunctional all the mayors are. anyone can see it if they look. you can say the liberals did the same thing with the vote on the 0.5% tax increase. at least that went directly to the people instead of some mayors. though it was also a cop-out knowing no one wants more taxes.


gotta love the echo chamber hypocrisy.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

gotta love the echo chamber hypocrisy.

Yeah, kinda like people blaming the NDP for something the Liberals had 16 years to fix.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yeah, kinda like people blaming the NDP for something the Liberals had 16 years to fix.

you mean where they had to do 5yrs of pointless community engagement? yes that was dumb. and yes, they should have started bridge const. early. i do think that. but the NDP literally cancelled it for no reason other than politics.

they literally cancelled a good plan because they were butt hurt they didn't get elected for 17yrs. then they come up with a worse plan, that takes 10yrs longer to build, that uses up more farm land, and that costs AT LEAST 1 billion more. and they got rid of the transit portion. add in the 9 figure in contracts that were already spent and they cancelled.

wow, yeah, gotta love that NDP.

i do wish the liberals had started sooner, because we would no longer have a dangerous, old, outdated, useless for transit, useless in an earthquake tunnel.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

you mean where they had to do 5yrs of pointless community engagement? yes that was dumb. and yes, they should have started bridge const. early. i do think that. but the NDP literally cancelled it for no reason other than politics.

they literally cancelled a good plan because they were butt hurt they didn't get elected for 17yrs. then they come up with a worse plan, that takes 10yrs longer to build, that uses up more farm land, and that costs AT LEAST 1 billion more. and they got rid of the transit portion. add in the 9 figure in contracts that were already spent and they cancelled.

wow, yeah, gotta love that NDP.

i do wish the liberals had started sooner, because we would no longer have a dangerous, old, outdated, useless for transit, useless in an earthquake tunnel.

[Migrant_Coconut]

The same way there was a perfectly good shovel-ready Broadway subway in the early 00's... which got scrapped when the Libs took over? Such is North American politics; just ask Toronto.

Political alignments aside, one does have to appreciate the irony: we complained about Christy Clark ignoring the mayors and doing her own thing... now we're upset about Horgan doing the exact opposite.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Tysonbrown

Every single Mayor in the Metro Vancouver area...is against a Bridge.

Mayors of cities like Burnaby and North Vancouver (as an example) should really have no say in a bridge construction in Delta/Richmond. Unfortunately the mayor of Richmond was against the biggest investment in history to his city, which is mindboggling.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

you mean where they had to do 5yrs of pointless community engagement?

The point of that was to defer the project so that it could become an election issue. The Liberals assumed that the bridge would be popular enough to garner them the votes to remain in power. The voters decided otherwise...

[cairnstone]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

you mean where they had to do 5yrs of pointless community engagement? yes that was dumb. and yes, they should have started bridge const. early. i do think that. but the NDP literally cancelled it for no reason other than politics.

they literally cancelled a good plan because they were butt hurt they didn't get elected for 17yrs. then they come up with a worse plan, that takes 10yrs longer to build, that uses up more farm land, and that costs AT LEAST 1 billion more. and they got rid of the transit portion. add in the 9 figure in contracts that were already spent and they cancelled.

wow, yeah, gotta love that NDP.

i do wish the liberals had started sooner, because we would no longer have a dangerous, old, outdated, useless for transit, useless in an earthquake tunnel.

You assume that the bridge would have not ran into huge design issues. Up until the 2015 or so when it became an election issue there never was any plan to replace the tunnel with a bridge. I used to only build infrastructure and have a great report with the MOT inspectors working on the 99 bus lane improvements was told then that the bridge was not going to happen for a variety of reasons the main one was the soil does not have the baring capacity to support the span. This was after the ministry had to deal with settling issues outside of spec on the new port man bridge. So you fast forward a few years its now a bigger bridge and one test pile decided it was a go. This is the back story on why it went back to being a tunnel.

As to everyone saying it will be open now you have must do well in the lotto. The Port Mann was 2 ish years behind schedule

[libtard]

Tunnel or bridge don’t really care which one at this point. A new 8 lane crossing will be so nice. It’s absolutely insane how northbound afternoon traffic is 6 lanes converging into 1

[bloomtronzero]

As fucky as the process has been, I was still happy voting for them. It was nice to see a freeway expansion get dicked around and SkyTrain expansion greenlit rather than the other way around like in the last administration, where we had all the money in the world to replace every single bridge but if we wanted so much as a bus, well that was reckless government spending! We need a new crossing, but we needed a Broadway train too.

That said, I really can't wait for the new crossing. Fuck the Massey tunnel.

The old design, I was concerned about where all the traffic would end up going without needing to massively redesign how 99 runs through Richmond and into Vancouver. And the "well two lanes are for dedicated bus service, it isn't really all car traffic" is a line I remember them saying about the new Port Mann, and those bus lanes became car lanes and the bus exits into car exits. I imagine it'd be the same story here, too.

The massive original bridge design would make sense with a rework, though. I remember the last government toying with the idea of a Sea island ferry terminal at one point, and having 99 partially funnel into that rather than just jamming the Oak Street Bridge could make the extra lanes justifiable. It was a nice looking bridge, but it was for sure opening the door to *needing* to start a tonne of other freeway projects after it, and we'd face another 2 decades of those taking priority over Broadway and Fraser trains.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Heh, pretty sure we'd still be studying a bridge to Gibsons instead of the SkyTrains if the Libs'd won 2017.

Originally Posted by bloomtronzero

...I remember the last government toying with the idea of a Sea island ferry terminal at one point, and having 99 partially funnel into that rather than just jamming the Oak Street Bridge could make the extra lanes justifiable...

Where the hell would they put that? Pretty much everywhere in the area is either future YVR infill or waste treatment and nature preserves; it'd have to be somewhere up the Fraser with all the associated brutal environmental reviews.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Heh, pretty sure we'd still be studying a bridge to Gibsons instead of the SkyTrains if the Libs'd won 2017.



Where the hell would they put that? Pretty much everywhere in the area is either future YVR infill or waste treatment and nature preserves; it'd have to be somewhere up the Fraser with all the associated brutal environmental reviews.

I think that idea dated back to Social Credit days. Can't recall if it was to be off Iona or Sturgeon Banks.

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I think that idea dated back to Social Credit days. Can't recall if it was to be off Iona or Sturgeon Banks.

Iona to Gabriola was the NDP plan in the mid 70s, the original three C class ferries were built with that route in mind.