Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[Conrad Yablonski]

I've only cycled that bike lane twice and I don't like it-mind you it's better than it used to be but not by much.

[CanSpice]

Clearly instead of blaming the cyclist (which a lot of people here seem more than glad to do) we should be advocating for disallowing right turns on red, and setting up signals and doing engineering so that we eliminate conflicts like this.

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Clearly instead of blaming the cyclist (which a lot of people here seem more than glad to do) we should be advocating for disallowing right turns on red, and setting up signals and doing engineering so that we eliminate conflicts like this.

I live in one of the brownstones, meters from this intersection and I make a right turn here almost every day,
but never on a red light, it's a no right turn red from Pacific onto Horby. I think its the safest intersection for negotiating cyclists on the bike path.

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Cyclists should never overtake or pace cars in that right lane unless they're d@mn sure that the driver sees them. The cyclists may have the right of way over right-turning traffic, but the consequences of a mistake are too serious to risk, IMHO. Being in the right is small solace for getting injured or worse.

I agree. It's \ there's a dedicated lane for vehicles to turn right on Pacific onto Horby, cyclist must be cautious or aware that a truck (with its right turn signal on or not) might proceed without due diligence. Be careful out there, all.

[simons]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Clearly instead of blaming the cyclist (which a lot of people here seem more than glad to do) we should be advocating for disallowing right turns on red, and setting up signals and doing engineering so that we eliminate conflicts like this.

Given that this stretch is part of the city’s “AAA” Network (i.e. for “All Ages and Abilities”), the lack of a separate turn light or even a leading pedestrian & bike interval is mind-boggling.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Clearly instead of blaming the cyclist (which a lot of people here seem more than glad to do) we should be advocating for disallowing right turns on red, and setting up signals and doing engineering so that we eliminate conflicts like this.

Nobody's blaming the cyclist, just urging cyclists to be vigilant against negligent drivers.

[officedweller]

With the width of Hornby due to the corner bulge, that long truck making a right hand turn would have had to straddle 2 westbound through lanes of Pacific (not the right turn lane) to make the turn.
Because of the truck being so far to the left before making the turn, I doubt its sideview mirror would provide the driver with a clear sightline to the bike path which is even farther to the right off the roadway.
I also doubt the truck would have been able to make that turn quickly due to the tight constraints.
It's almost one of those scenarios where a co-driver jumps out of the cab and directs/holds back traffic and pedestrians (ie trucks do that downtown when backing up from laneways like behind Best Buy/Winners).
I think someone posted a pic of the intersection that showed a 'no right turn on red' sign. The bike and the truck were likely both going in the same direction, so the bike wouldn't have been going straight through a red light when hit - so that's not the issue.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

...When I'm cycling in the downtown bike lanes I try to make sure I'm not riding right beside anyone in the rightmost vehicle lane - just the same way that when I drive on the street try to avoid driving right beside someone on either side of me.

Yeah, just common sense - to us older folk.

There's a large segment of an entire generation of people who don't drive, so may not know what a blind spot is (and would not act defensively to avoid being in it).
There are also people who don't even shoulder check when changing lanes.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by officedweller

With the width of Hornby due to the corner bulge, that long truck making a right hand turn would have had to straddle 2 westbound through lanes of Pacific (not the right turn lane) to make the turn.
Because of the truck being so far to the left before making the turn, I doubt its sideview mirror would provide the driver with a clear sightline to the bike path which is even farther to the right off the roadway.
I also doubt the truck would have been able to make that turn quickly due to the tight constraints.
It's almost one of those scenarios where a co-driver jumps out of the cab and directs/holds back traffic and pedestrians (ie trucks do that downtown when backing up from laneways like behind Best Buy/Winners).
I think someone posted a pic of the intersection that showed a 'no right turn on red' sign. The bike and the truck were likely both going in the same direction, so the bike wouldn't have been going straight through a red light when hit - so that's not the issue.

Yes, that would certainly fit with what I saw. I understand the theory behind those pedestrian bulges but if the city is going to allow large trucks downtown maybe they should take a look at how the bulges impact everything else.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

There's a large segment of an entire generation of people who don't drive, so may not know what a blind spot is (and would not act defensively to avoid being in it).
There are also people who don't even shoulder check when changing lanes.

I feel like this comes up a lot, mostly with people on bikes or scooters, but sometimes pedestrians. They act in ways that are very dangerous to themselves due to a lack of awareness of how cars operate, what drivers can typically see, how they react, etc.

[Zepfancouver]

This morning. Condolence to the family

[WarrenC12]

Wow from that angle, cyclists are fairly well protected by the extra island where the cyclist pictured is. There's a light pole on there so trucks can't short cut that area either. The truck in question must have been going fairly slowly, and obviously impossible to miss. I'm really curious how this all happened.

[Zepfancouver]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Wow from that angle, cyclists are fairly well protected by the extra island where the cyclist pictured is. There's a light pole on there so trucks can't short cut that area either. The truck in question must have been going fairly slowly, and obviously impossible to miss. I'm really curious how this all happened.

I wonder if the City is also very curious or do they know exactly what happen? Hornby St and Pacific St Traffic Cam

[Zepfancouver]

The truck driver is going at a good pace like he has taken this corner a few hundred times.

Video of the incident on GlobalBC, scroll down to the second video Cyclist killed in Yaletown was a PhD student at UBC

[Migrant_Coconut]

What a way to go. Seems like either the truck or the bike should've waited for the other to go, and then he'd still be alive.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

What a way to go. Seems like either the truck or the bike should've waited for the other to go, and then he'd still be alive.

Most accidents occur because both people weren't sufficiently vigilant. That's why it's so important to be careful even when you have the right of way.

I go through phases where I watch dashcam accidents on YouTube. I think if everyone did that there'd be a lot fewer accidents cause that stuff scares the **** out of me.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

What a way to go. Seems like either the truck or the bike should've waited for the other to go, and then he'd still be alive.

Again, if the light was green the truck should have waited based on the signage at the intersection.

If right of way is determined by who has the most to lose in the event of a collision (i.e., the most vulnerable road users), why do we even have rules of the road?

[WarrenC12]

It looks like all bike lane intersections need a full green signal for bikes while cars get a red (and no right turn on red). This exists in other areas around the city.

But, it does appear the cyclist was travelling pretty fast to not notice the truck turning right in time. Or he thought he was seen and the truck would stop?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

But, it does appear the cyclist was travelling pretty fast to not notice the truck turning right in time. Or he thought he was seen and the truck would stop?

It's impossible to tell from the footage - you'd need to see the approach to the corner. It may well be that the truck was overtaking the cyclist so that the cyclist wasn't aware of it until the last second or two. It's kinda hard to miss a truck unless it's behind you. Either that, or the cyclist expected the truck to go straight through the intersection, a dangerous assumption as I pointed out above.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's impossible to tell from the footage - you'd need to see the approach to the corner. It may well be that the truck was overtaking the cyclist so that the cyclist wasn't aware of it until the last second or two. It's kinda hard to miss a truck unless it's behind you. Either that, or the cyclist expected the truck to go straight through the intersection, a dangerous assumption as I pointed out above.

Yes, for sure, there are subtle keys like the truck slowing. The signal would be pretty obvious if it was on. And of course the ability for a cyclist to stop is pretty fast.

I have to yield to a bike lane near my home on a regular basis, just turning right. It's tricky because of how fast bikes can be going, especially compared to something like pedestrians.