CHICAGO | Economic & Business Development

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by marothisu

I don't think it'll have a HUGE impact but it will have some impact.

…

Texas and Florida are also 2 states leading the charge with taking away or at least threatening to take away more than just reproductive rights. And I think to many people even the threat of that is scary. Just remember, some of the actual major climate change migration could be minimum 50 years away. But literally taking away rights is much faster and quicker. People know this - some people can anticipate it much better before others too.

We shall see.

As far as climate change goes, temperature is not the main concern in Florida and probably not that much in Texas. But both states have had major storms, floods and frequent power outages that are issues today, not 50-year-in-the-future problems.

Politics is difficult, because it’s abstract, but it’s not like the attitudes coming from the state capitals haven’t already existed in the public or neighborhood or street for decades.

I couldn’t see a person who prioritizes reproductive rights choosing FL or TX even 20 years ago.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

We shall see.

As far as climate change goes, temperature is not the main concern in Florida and probably not that much in Texas. But both states have had major storms, floods and frequent power outages that are issues today, not 50-year-in-the-future problems.

Politics is difficult, because it’s abstract, but it’s not like the attitudes coming from the state capitals haven’t already existed in the public or neighborhood or street for decades.

I couldn’t see a person who prioritizes reproductive rights choosing FL or TX even 20 years ago.

You probably know more than I do, but I do have friends from and in Florida who pass off the storms as "we've always had storms." A lot of them think nothing of it even if there's been an increase in them and sometimes in intensity. One of my good friends moved to Miami from Chicago in 2020. His area didn't flood a few weeks ago when they had major flooding so he didn't care at all as it didn't affect him.

Politics is abstract yes, but people also do not always make decisions in their best interest. There are a lot of single issue voters out there and you will see people who may value things like reproductive rights moving to Texas only because they're attracted to 0% income tax and believe they should never have their income taxed. It's only when their freedom is at stake do they start to look at the issues they may have overlooked that were there all along.

[marothisu]

This is the type of stuff I was talking about with the medical field btw

https://twitter.com/pastordan/status...jR3VvaJcQ&s=19


And things like this
https://twitter.com/BWJones/status/1...LlCWZTVgg&s=19

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by marothisu

You probably know more than I do, but I do have friends from and in Florida who pass off the storms as "we've always had storms." A lot of them think nothing of it even if there's been an increase in them and sometimes in intensity. One of my good friends moved to Miami from Chicago in 2020. His area didn't flood a few weeks ago when they had major flooding so he didn't care at all as it didn't affect him.

Politics is abstract yes, but people also do not always make decisions in their best interest. There are a lot of single issue voters out there and you will see people who may value things like reproductive rights moving to Texas only because they're attracted to 0% income tax and believe they should never have their income taxed. It's only when their freedom is at stake do they start to look at the issues they may have overlooked that were there all along.

These past two decades have actually been much more quiet for Floridians and other residents of the gulf than what is typical. Other than Hurricanes Irma and Ida, there’s been not much action since one of these articles was posted.

Hurricanes are not that scary if they are Category 2 or lower, but they still come with a lot of damage and a lot of other expenses and hassles when they do hit.

In 2005, my neighborhood spent a collective 6 weeks without power, on top of other damage and preparations in previous years. That gets obnoxious.


Also, if people are old enough to actually be worrying about income tax all the time, I would imagine they’re too old to be directly worrying about reproduction rights. Usually, these wealthier families just sent their daughters to college up North if they were truly worried.

The last hurricane to make landfall in Florida was Wilma on Oct. 24, 2005. Wilma capped off a barrage of hurricanes that battered the state during the 2004 and 2005 seasons. Florida's current hurricane-free streak dwarfs the previous record dating to 1851, which was five consecutive seasons from 1980 to 1984.

https://weather.com/storms/hurricane...-drought-erika


https://s.w-x.co//util/image/w/trop-...ebp&quality=60

[CaptainJilliams]

For our family, the weather was one factor in us relocating from Houston to Chicago. Though we didn't experience severe flooding like some, it's a constant threat whenever there's heavy rain. You don't need a tropical storm or hurricane for it to be devastating. It becomes at best inconvenient and at worst life-threatening to accomplish basic activities, especially given how car-dependent the city is (that goes for pretty much any southern, coastal city too). This issue isn't going away and is only going to get worse with continued climate change.

And even if you don't experience it directly, your wallet will feel the pain. The money you save from lower taxes just goes towards higher insurance costs across the board: car, renters/home, flood, etc. God forbid you ever have to go through the experience of dealing with these insurance companies if you are affected by flooding and storms, I could tell you horror stories from Hurricane Harvey and more recent storms.

The last straw for us was the power grid blackout in the Winter Storm of 2021. Our place lost electricity and water for 4 days, and we were some of the lucky ones. We were able to bounce between different friends' houses during that time, but it was incredibly stressful given we had a baby. From what I hear from my Texas friends, power outages still remain the most prevalent result of any storm, and we were just flat out over it. The lower cost of living just wasn't worth the hassle.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by CaptainJilliams

For our family, the weather was one factor in us relocating from Houston to Chicago. Though we didn't experience severe flooding like some, it's a constant threat whenever there's heavy rain. You don't need a tropical storm or hurricane for it to be devastating. It becomes at best inconvenient and at worst life-threatening to accomplish basic activities, especially given how car-dependent the city is (that goes for pretty much any southern, coastal city too). This issue isn't going away and is only going to get worse with continued climate change.

And even if you don't experience it directly, your wallet will feel the pain. The money you save from lower taxes just goes towards higher insurance costs across the board: car, renters/home, flood, etc. God forbid you ever have to go through the experience of dealing with these insurance companies if you are affected by flooding and storms, I could tell you horror stories from Hurricane Harvey and more recent storms.

The last straw for us was the power grid blackout in the Winter Storm of 2021. Our place lost electricity and water for 4 days, and we were some of the lucky ones. We were able to bounce between different friends' houses during that time, but it was incredibly stressful given we had a baby. From what I hear from my Texas friends, power outages still remain the most prevalent result of any storm, and we were just flat out over it. The lower cost of living just wasn't worth the hassle.

Sounds like a pain in the ass TBH. It was funny hearing some people in Texas assuming that Chicago would magically shut down when it got to 100 a few times recently and we'd be without water. As if it doesn't get into the 90s every year here and up to 100. I've almost never seen the city shut down here for any reason - even better than when storms hit in NYC and they'd shut down the trains.

Anyway, I am curious about the difference in insurance costs there vs. here, and the percentage vs gross income. All these things do add up and a lot of people typically only look at a few taxes (i.e. income and sales) and the housing prices to try and figure out what a place will cost instead of also factoring in insurance, cost of transportation, etc and other fees

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Anyway, I am curious about the difference in insurance costs there vs. here, and the percentage vs gross income. All these things do add up and a lot of people typically only look at a few taxes (i.e. income and sales) and the housing prices to try and figure out what a place will cost instead of also factoring in insurance, cost of transportation, etc and other fees

If you can get insurance…






https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/r...ens-insurance/

Like some private insurers, Florida’s state-run property insurance corporation has been unable to acquire all the reinsurance coverage it needs to cover risks posed by hurricanes and other threats in the coming year.

Citizens Property Insurance Corp., the state’s insurer of last resort, has acquired about one-third of the back-up coverage it has been seeking, said spokesman Michael Peltier on Tuesday.

Florida’s insurance marketplace is widely considered in critical condition, due to reinsurance companies withdrawing from Florida’s turbulent insurance climate. Reinsurers are large companies that provide coverage to primary insurance companies when they incur claims beyond their ability to pay.

With multiple insurers cancelling policies in Florida, Citizens has been absorbing stranded policyholders at the rate of about 6,000 per week, Peltier said. In mid-May, the corporation’s board of governors authorized spending up to $400 million to buy $4.25 billion in reinsurance coverage, nearly double what it spent last year.

Peltier said Citizens was shopping for $3.44 billion in new coverage to add to what it already had.

“Citizens has $300 billion in exposure (potential claims). If we have a major storm, the $6 billion they have in claims-paying capacity could run out quickly,” Handerhan said.

If, as meteorologists predict, this proves to be an active storm season that results in large property losses, Citizens could be forced to raise rates on its customers by up to 11 percent.

Southern Fidelity Insurance is the latest to announce it had lost its good credit rating and was trying to offload roughly 70,000 policies to other companies still operating in Florida. Policyholders that cannot be placed elsewhere may apply for coverage in Citizens, which has ballooned to nearly 900,000 policies. Its volume in May of last year was 609,805 policies, and in 2020 was 463,247, according to corporate records.

https://floridaphoenix.com/2022/06/1...ance-coverage/

[marothisu]

^ Interesting, but yeah I shouldn't even be surprised. Kind of sad I guess. Income tax might be 0% but I guess all the little fees or increase of them could add up. My friend who moved to Miami in 2020 has less money after taxes in Miami than Chicago despite making more money in Miami and having 0% income tax. He still has less money left over after housing, food and transportation than he did while living in downtown Chicago.

[rivernorthlurker]

Ya'll may have heard

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ken-gri...ts-11655994600

Ken Griffin Moving Citadel From Chicago to Miami Following Crime Complaints

https://therealdeal.com/chicago/2022...fin-shifts-hq/

Citadel is headquartered in The Loop on South Dearborn Street and has about 1,000 employees in Chicago, according to a memo from the company obtained by Crain’s. The Miami headquarters will house about 300 staff and eventually be located in a tower being developed by Sterling Bay in Miami’s Brickell Bay.

https://commercialobserver.com/2022/...rickell-miami/

Small silver lining that this will be a massive project for Sterling:

The firm is partnering with Chicago-based Sterling Bay to develop a new tower on Brickell Bay, though a source with knowledge of the company’s plans said that a site hadn’t been selected. Both the development process and the move are expected to take a few years.

This follows Boeing and Caterpillar announcing they are relocating their corporate HQs out of Chicago as well.

It is what it is. Maybe this will motivate the city to 'wake up' a bit.

Probably not.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by CaptainJilliams

For our family, the weather was one factor in us relocating from Houston to Chicago. Though we didn't experience severe flooding like some, it's a constant threat whenever there's heavy rain. You don't need a tropical storm or hurricane for it to be devastating. It becomes at best inconvenient and at worst life-threatening to accomplish basic activities, especially given how car-dependent the city is (that goes for pretty much any southern, coastal city too). This issue isn't going away and is only going to get worse with continued climate change.

And even if you don't experience it directly, your wallet will feel the pain. The money you save from lower taxes just goes towards higher insurance costs across the board: car, renters/home, flood, etc. God forbid you ever have to go through the experience of dealing with these insurance companies if you are affected by flooding and storms, I could tell you horror stories from Hurricane Harvey and more recent storms.

The last straw for us was the power grid blackout in the Winter Storm of 2021. Our place lost electricity and water for 4 days, and we were some of the lucky ones. We were able to bounce between different friends' houses during that time, but it was incredibly stressful given we had a baby. From what I hear from my Texas friends, power outages still remain the most prevalent result of any storm, and we were just flat out over it. The lower cost of living just wasn't worth the hassle.

I can't speak to most of the cost differences, but I can tell you that my car insurance in Houston was roughly double what it was in Chicago, even though my coverage was better here than there. Insurance costs in Houston are pretty atrocious.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by glowrock

I can't speak to most of the cost differences, but I can tell you that my car insurance in Houston was roughly double what it was in Chicago, even though my coverage was better here than there. Insurance costs in Houston are pretty atrocious.

Aaron (Glowrock)

Considering Harvey destroyed like half a million cars, it makes sense.

[glowrock]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Considering Harvey destroyed like half a million cars, it makes sense.

This was before Harvey, at least for the most part.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[CaptainJilliams]

Originally Posted by glowrock

I can't speak to most of the cost differences, but I can tell you that my car insurance in Houston was roughly double what it was in Chicago, even though my coverage was better here than there. Insurance costs in Houston are pretty atrocious.

Aaron (Glowrock)

Yep! Moving to Chicago cut my rate by over half, and my coverage up here is also better than it was in Houston.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by CaptainJilliams

Yep! Moving to Chicago cut my rate by over half, and my coverage up here is also better than it was in Houston.

Curious about other things in difference like cost of rent/housing and wage. I do know that Houston has done a pretty good job as far as housing costs but that matters only as much as how much money people are making.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Curious about other things in difference like cost of rent/housing and wage. I do know that Houston has done a pretty good job as far as housing costs but that matters only as much as how much money people are making.

It’s brutal. My Mom was telling me how rents in Ocala, FL are now higher than parts of Chicago.


https://www.atlantafed.org/center-fo...bility-monitor

https://www.atlantafed.org/center-fo...bility-monitor

[galleyfox]

[twister244]

Guys.... Stop trying to let the cat out of the bag that Chicago is secretly affordable for an Alpha class world city.... We don't want everyone and their mother flocking here driving up the COL

[F1 Tommy]

Originally Posted by twister244

Guys.... Stop trying to let the cat out of the bag that Chicago is secretly affordable for an Alpha class world city.... We don't want everyone and their mother flocking here driving up the COL

Alot of people from the east coast already here since 2020!! The New York Times can write all the articles it wants saying Chicago is more expensive than NY. No one believes them as it is not true.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy

Alot of people from the east coast already here since 2020!! The New York Times can write all the articles it wants saying Chicago is more expensive than NY. No one believes them as it is not true.

LOL yeah - such a ridiculous thing to say of them. Our 2 bedroom apartment in South Loop here was cheaper than our 1 bedroom apartment in Long Island City (Queens). And the condo we bought here in Lincoln Park - 4 bedrooms, 2400 sq ft with 2 outdoor spaces - was over $300K cheaper than the 1 bedroom condos in Long Island City in the building next door to our old apartment. One of my co-workers just moved from his West Village 2 bedroom apartment to another part of Manhattan and they listed it for $7800/mo.

Also our income taxes here are around half of what they were in NYC. We both moved with our NYC salaries so that was good. Then they gave me a raise in Chicago a little after, so - good move for us. I hired a senior person in Chicago under me not long ago and the salary is what some people in our NYC office make and even above some of them. Also offered others at similar-to-NYC levels for us. The top salary range for my level for NYC for my company is only $15K or so higher than Chicago. Factoring in everything it's not even close - Chicago is way cheaper. We have had many people move to cities like Dallas from NYC to take advantage of how we handle these things too, at certain levels.


Property taxes are definitely more here but income tax is a bit lower coupled with property prices being way lower - it's just flat out cheaper here and it's not even close. Transportation is a little more and there's more areas of Chicago you might need a car in, but public transit there is a little more expensive. Also, most people I worked with lived in NJ or Long Island, and would actually end up paying quite a bit per month for things like LIRR. To put it lightly, some of the suburbs of NJ that people are "forced" to move to are still more expensive than much of the north side of Chicago and even downtown. Someone who rents or owns in Jersey City or Hoboken these days can probably find themselves being able to afford something nice in Lincoln Park anyway.

If you adjust for the difference in income tax and consider the price of housing, we basically pay about $400/mo more after factoring in taxes for our 4 bedroom condo here than what we were paying for our 1 bedroom apartment in NYC including everything (property taxes, insurance, utilities/internet, etc). Since we had a kid, we would have had to find a 2+ bedroom condo in NYC which is pretty expensive especially given that we wanted something decently nice and not crap. Basically looking at minimum of $1.5M for a 2 bedroom for our constraints. This was a no-brainer move for us. There are things we miss about NYC but we're happy in Chicago. The analogue in even Brooklyn to our place would have cost us at least $3.5M which we cannot afford. There is no way if we stayed in NYC that we could have afforded this type of place. Yet here we are in Chicago and with same (actually higher now) salaries than we had a year ago in NYC.


The only thing that's similar between the cities is the cost of food, though NYC may have gotten a bit more expensive this year with that but not by a huge margin.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy

Alot of people from the east coast already here since 2020!! The New York Times can write all the articles it wants saying Chicago is more expensive than NY. No one believes them as it is not true.

Wait is that a real article?!