Broadway Corridor Development Plan

[SpongeG]

why would they add bike lanes to broadway? most of the parallel streets are already bike lanes. do they really need to get preference?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

why would they add bike lanes to broadway? most of the parallel streets are already bike lanes. do they really need to get preference?

Cycling advocates will tell you that 10th is a terrible biking street, and it's tantamount to torture to be a block away from stores you want to visit.

I disagree, but that's the argument.

[logan5]

With 10th Avenue you have to slow down at every intersection because of the roundabouts, and you have to contend with cars and other cyclist or pedestrians crossing the street. So if speed is your priority, and it is if you are commuting to work, or you simply want to go faster, a bike lane along Broadway would be twice as fast for a cyclist.

[Migrant_Coconut]

That sounds like more of an argument to redesign 10th and make it the bike highway. If the goals is to cut vehicle traffic and slow it down to make Broadway more walkable, then cyclists should too.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That sounds like more of an argument to redesign 10th and make it the bike highway. If the goals is to cut vehicle traffic and slow it down to make Broadway more walkable, then cyclists should too.

Yes, as I mentioned before, i would like to see 10 th Ave redesigned as a bike highway. Close off a few intersections to cars, and add lights at other intersections so you can ride at the same speed you would on an arterial road like Broadway.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

why would they add bike lanes to broadway? most of the parallel streets are already bike lanes. do they really need to get preference?

Devil's advocate: Every single street in the Vancouver grid provides ample room for both pedestrians and cars, so why are cyclists relegated to limited cycling thoroughfares when their final destination is more likely a shop on Broadway than a residence on 10th?

[logan5]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Devil's advocate: Every single street in the Vancouver grid provides ample room for both pedestrians and cars, so why are cyclists relegated to limited cycling thoroughfares when their final destination is more likely a shop on Broadway than a residence on 10th?

And because cyclists only require a 4 foot wide lane, a grade A bike lane can easily fit into any side street. It would just take the political will power to do it.

If you go so far as to build a completely traffic separated bike lane, what you have is a very cheap rapid transit system. Averaging 30km/h would be easy on an e bike or scooter.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Two feet wide at most. If we're going to calm traffic on Broadway, we should calm ALL the traffic.

Originally Posted by chowhou

Devil's advocate: Every single street in the Vancouver grid provides ample room for both pedestrians and cars, so why are cyclists relegated to limited cycling thoroughfares when their final destination is more likely a shop on Broadway than a residence on 10th?

Buses don't use the bike lanes - they use the vehicle lanes. If the 9, 14, 15, 16 and 17 ever move to 10th or 12th, then fine, but until then parts of Broadway will get up to 48 buses an hour (24 each direction) and need at least four lanes.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Two feet wide at most. If we're going to calm traffic on Broadway, we should calm ALL the traffic.

I appreciate you're showing your standard distain for bike riders, but one way bike lanes are at least 2m wide, and generally 2.3m. You'll find the standard design on p7 here. The space they require is one reason why the city's engineers weren't recommending that there would be lanes on Broadway, but members of Council unanimously supported the engineers going away and studying if (or where) it would be possible. TransLink have apparently said they would prefer four traffic lanes, and they have a veto (as it's part of the Major Road Network). For details, see the memo staff produced on May 26th.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I appreciate you're showing your standard distain for bike riders, but one way bike lanes are at least 2m wide, and generally 2.3m. You'll find the standard design on p7 here. The space they require is one reason why the city's engineers weren't recommending that there would be lanes on Broadway, but members of Council unanimously supported the engineers going away and studying if (or where) it would be possible. TransLink have apparently said they would prefer four traffic lanes, and they have a veto (as it's part of the Major Road Network). For details, see the memo staff produced on May 26th.

Reducto ad absurdum. Obviously, bike lanes do take up more than four feet.

And if the argument is that Broadway is too hostile to non-drivers, and should be slowed down to improve walkability and urban quality - contentious, but understandable enough - then why should anybody be arguing the opposite for the bike lane (to allow cyclists to go fast)? Sounds like favouritism; I can guarantee that pedestrians don't feel much safer crossing a road with bikes going 30 km/h than with speeding cars/buses/trains.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

With 10th Avenue you have to slow down at every intersection because of the roundabouts, and you have to contend with cars and other cyclist or pedestrians crossing the street. So if speed is your priority, and it is if you are commuting to work, or you simply want to go faster, a bike lane along Broadway would be twice as fast for a cyclist.

Broadway has more traffic lights though. It's hardly faster.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And if the argument is that Broadway is too hostile to non-drivers, and should be slowed down to improve walkability and urban quality - contentious, but understandable enough - then why should anybody be arguing the opposite for the bike lane (to allow cyclists to go fast)? Sounds like favouritism; I can guarantee that pedestrians don't feel much safer crossing a road with bikes going 30 km/h than with speeding cars/buses/trains.

I'm a pedestrian a lot of the time these past few years. I've had many more close calls with cyclists than with drivers. Both should be yielding to me of course. Drivers tend to proceed slowly, while maybe not seeing me until the last minute. Cyclists go as fast as they can and whip by with little clearance, when they should be slowing/stopping or otherwise yielding.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Broadway has more traffic lights though. It's hardly faster.

Have you ridden your bike down 10th and down Broadway? It's way faster going down Broadway. When you go down 10th you have to slow down at Ontario Street, then slow down at Manitoba Street, and so on. There are traffic lights along Broadway, but they are pedestrian controlled, so the vast majority of the time, you can ride as fast as you can along Broadway.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I'm a pedestrian a lot of the time these past few years. I've had many more close calls with cyclists than with drivers. Both should be yielding to me of course. Drivers tend to proceed slowly, while maybe not seeing me until the last minute. Cyclists go as fast as they can and whip by with little clearance, when they should be slowing/stopping or otherwise yielding.

Just pretend you're going to run into them.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by logan5

Have you ridden your bike down 10th and down Broadway? It's way faster going down Broadway. When you go down 10th you have to slow down at Ontario Street, then slow down at Manitoba Street, and so on. There are traffic lights along Broadway, but they are pedestrian controlled, so the vast majority of the time, you can ride as fast as you can along Broadway.

I'm pretty certain that none of our bike routes - on road, or separated - are intended for cyclists riding 'as fast as they can'. Anybody who wants to ride like that should be mixing it with the vehicles - and there will be no doubt be the occasional funeral as a consequence. I had a friend lose a leg, cycling on a major arterial like Broadway, (where there wasn't alternative bike route), when a truck cut in without seeing him. Another friend had 6 months recovery after a car t-boned him at a junction where the car failed to stop at a stop sign. In a bike vs. vehicle conflict, the cyclist will almost always come off worse. Having bike routes with lights and safe lanes encourages more cycling, but it adds more inexperienced or cautious riders to the mix, so spandex warriors (or high-speed cyclists without the advertising) will be both frustrated, and a potential danger to other cyclists.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by logan5

Have you ridden your bike down 10th and down Broadway? It's way faster going down Broadway. When you go down 10th you have to slow down at Ontario Street, then slow down at Manitoba Street, and so on. There are traffic lights along Broadway, but they are pedestrian controlled, so the vast majority of the time, you can ride as fast as you can along Broadway.

Slowing through an intersection is going to be faster than a ~50% risk of stopping almost any time.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Just pretend you're going to run into them.

As an able bodied white guy, yeah, I definitely assert my right of way. But I'm aware of where they are. Sometimes they even curse me out.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

As an able bodied white guy, yeah, I definitely assert my right of way. But I'm aware of where they are. Sometimes they even curse me out.

Eeyup - as somebody who likes the seawall and Burrard Bridge, I can testify that "critical mass" does not apply to pedestrians or other non-bikers. Wouldn't be so bad if they stuck to the bike lane, but hey, gotta go fast.

[madog222]

2023 assessments are up and it seems BC Assessment is extremely bullish for Broadway between Main and Fraser. Quickly scanning through most sites here have had land values increase by 56%

Land value change only:

307 E Broadway (Kingsgate Mall) $171M -> $247M; 44% increase
425 E Broadway (Andrew Sheret) $13.3M -> $20.7M; 56% increase
2520 Guelph (soon to be completed Habitat condo) $13M -> $20.5M; 56% increase
490 E Broadway (beside 2520 Guelph) $16.6M -> $30.5M; 56% increase
2511 Carolina (under development as 2525 Carolina) $12.2M -> $19M; 56% increase
601 E Broadway (mini stripmall at Carolina) $11.9M -> $18.8M; 56% increase.

[Migrant_Coconut]

New bike lanes on Broadway timed with subway completion extremely challenging

A report by City staff ahead of next week’s meeting strongly recommends the option of essentially proceeding with the original plan of redesigning Broadway’s station blocks — the city blocks where subway station construction is being undertaken — with a focus on more space for pedestrians and patios for businesses.

Wider sidewalks for pedestrians and patios would be achieved by using the existing curbside parking/bus-only lane on both sides of the street, effectively narrowing Broadway’s general width from six vehicle lanes to four vehicle lanes at station blocks. There would also be some design considerations to potentially allow bike lanes to be added along Broadway at some point in the future, specifically the placement of trees and the poles for street lamps and trolley bus wires.

Two other alternative options that are not recommended by City staff would implement protected bike lanes on both sides of the street as part of the subway project’s restoration of the station blocks, following the completion of the underground station structures...

City planners think bike lanes are a bad idea, and Council will likely likely vote accordingly; drivers, bus passengers, you can now begin your victory dance.