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  #1021  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 3:07 PM
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They're really doing everything possible to make 2PP and MSG as an ensemble look like a giant toilet. A new "lid" on MSG would be the icing on the cake. A big chrome lever mounted high up on 2PP would complete the masterpiece. Those round bowls really are a hindrance though, am I right fellas?
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  #1022  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 3:27 PM
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They're really doing everything possible to make 2PP and MSG as an ensemble look like a giant toilet. A new "lid" on MSG would be the icing on the cake. A big chrome lever mounted high up on 2PP would complete the masterpiece. Those round bowls really are a hindrance though, am I right fellas?
The Dolans are the problem. The City should use eminent domain to force a move.
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  #1023  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 3:53 PM
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A movement if you will?
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  #1024  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 4:36 PM
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It would be pretty easy for them to find a reason to use eminent domain. But don't hold your breath.
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  #1025  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 4:52 PM
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The city and state should also tax the daylights out of MSG.
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  #1026  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 4:57 PM
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The City (nor state) won’t do anything that foolish because it has no where to relocate. Hate on the building all you like (and it is hateworthy). But from a practical and logical perspective, it is on the best location it could be. Nothing else comes close.

What they can and should do is rebuild it along with the rebuilding of Penn Station. You’re getting a decade of free construction chaos now, ir’s tge perfect time to do it.
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  #1027  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 5:15 PM
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A city the size and density of NY should not have an arena in the middle of it. This isn’t Charlotte, Nashville, Dallas, Seattle, etc.

They could move to the Bronx and really spur gentrification there. I’ve ridden the subway to Yankee Stadium many times. It couldn’t be easier.
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  #1028  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 5:20 PM
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The City (nor state) won’t do anything that foolish because it has no where to relocate. Hate on the building all you like (and it is hateworthy). But from a practical and logical perspective, it is on the best location it could be. Nothing else comes close.
Is there another place on earth where people have the expectation to see Billy Joel by merrily stepping off your suburban train and going up an escalator?
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  #1029  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 5:23 PM
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They could move to the Bronx and really spur gentrification there. I’ve ridden the subway to Yankee Stadium many times. It couldn’t be easier.
Been over this a thousand times. The Bronx is a natural location for an outdoor sports stadium not a year round entertainment and indoor sports arena. The Bronx needs and deserves the MLS stadium, not the MSG...
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  #1030  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 5:32 PM
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Been over this a thousand times. The Bronx is a natural location for an outdoor sports stadium not a year round entertainment and indoor sports arena. The Bronx needs and deserves the MLS stadium, not the MSG...
It should get both. The Bronx is accessible to the entire region.
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  #1031  
Old Posted Jun 12, 2022, 5:36 PM
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Aside from the PABT redevelopment having the footprint to support it which I've suggested many times, it really is an unfortunate fact of history that the Time Warner Center at the site of the old Coliseum couldn't have been the site for a new MSG. In hindsight, had they also been able to acquire the horrible Housing buildings behind it facing Columbus, the site would have had amazing potential for a high profile location for a major sports and entertainment venue with excellent transit connections.
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  #1032  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
The City (nor state) won’t do anything that foolish because it has no where to relocate. Hate on the building all you like (and it is hateworthy). But from a practical and logical perspective, it is on the best location it could be. Nothing else comes close.

What they can and should do is rebuild it along with the rebuilding of Penn Station. You’re getting a decade of free construction chaos now, ir’s tge perfect time to do it.

So much hate of MSG here.. as a season ticket holder who's been to 100's of games and concerts there.. there is no better location for MSG then where it stands today!

The rebuild of it's interiors cost a cool BILLION!! It's state of the art inside! Should they take advantage of the whole Penn Area going thru reconstruction and rebuild the exterior...ABSOLUTELY!! While they are at it tear down the theatre on the 8th Avenue side!

2 Penn should have had the "wrecking ball" taken to it.. would've opened up the block and Penn underneath! The air rights could've easily been transferred to other Steve Roth Vornado projects in and around Penn!

Stop hating on the World's most Famous Arena!
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  #1033  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2022, 1:10 PM
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So much hate of MSG here.. as a season ticket holder who's been to 100's of games and concerts there.. there is no better location for MSG then where it stands today!

The rebuild of it's interiors cost a cool BILLION!! It's state of the art inside! Should they take advantage of the whole Penn Area going thru reconstruction and rebuild the exterior...ABSOLUTELY!! While they are at it tear down the theatre on the 8th Avenue side!

2 Penn should have had the "wrecking ball" taken to it.. would've opened up the block and Penn underneath! The air rights could've easily been transferred to other Steve Roth Vornado projects in and around Penn!

Stop hating on the World's most Famous Arena!
"The World's Most Famous Arena" sucks ass. And yes it is in the best possible location it could be in. The same could be said for a million other ventures, it's not a good reason to keep it there.
A good reason is that it'll cost a ton to move it and they don't have anywhere right now. Also the POS Dolans don't want to.
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  #1034  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 7:08 PM
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It should get both. The Bronx is accessible to the entire region.
Nah, the Bronx is not *that* accessible.

They should put MSG where Javits is and build a proper convention center in Queens. Javits itself is trash. MSG would also liven up the area around Hudson yards. You'd kill two birds with one stone.
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  #1035  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 9:12 PM
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Nah, the Bronx is not *that* accessible.

They should put MSG where Javits is and build a proper convention center in Queens. Javits itself is trash. MSG would also liven up the area around Hudson yards. You'd kill two birds with one stone.
Both the convention center and MSG should have been built in LIC before it became gentrified with residential development. It's too late now, but that location would have been perfect - just one stop across from midtown Manhattan.
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  #1036  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2022, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyNYC View Post
So much hate of MSG here.. as a season ticket holder who's been to 100's of games and concerts there.. there is no better location for MSG then where it stands today!

The rebuild of it's interiors cost a cool BILLION!! It's state of the art inside! Should they take advantage of the whole Penn Area going thru reconstruction and rebuild the exterior...ABSOLUTELY!! While they are at it tear down the theatre on the 8th Avenue side!

2 Penn should have had the "wrecking ball" taken to it.. would've opened up the block and Penn underneath! The air rights could've easily been transferred to other Steve Roth Vornado projects in and around Penn!

Stop hating on the World's most Famous Arena!

Best place in the tri-state, and will only become better once Metro North begins service into Penn. Not even the Javits site compares.
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  #1037  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2022, 9:01 PM
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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/23/nyregion/penn-station-tracks-amtrak.amp.html

Overburdened Penn Station Needs More Tracks. But Where Could They Fit?
As debate rages on a plan to renovate the nation’s busiest hub, Amtrak awarded a contract to design a $12 billion expansion that would add train capacity.



By Patrick McGeehan
June 23, 2022


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Amtrak, the national railroad that owns the station and the tracks that run through it, is moving ahead with a plan to expand the station at an estimated cost of $12 billion. That plan envisions demolishing an entire block of Midtown that is home to a 151-year-old church.

On Thursday, Amtrak awarded a contract for the design of the station expansion, which it expects will take two years and as much as $73 million to draw up.
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The Amtrak expansion is part of a comprehensive program of rail infrastructure improvements known as Gateway. The centerpiece of Gateway would be a new pair of one-track tunnels under the Hudson River between Penn Station and New Jersey.

The new tunnels would supplement a parallel pair of tunnels that were built more than 110 years ago and are still damaged by flooding during Hurricane Sandy in 2012. Eventually, Gateway could double the trans-Hudson capacity, with the goal of making the commute into the city more efficient and reliable for riders of New Jersey Transit and Amtrak trains.

But Penn Station’s 21 tracks and platforms were already overloaded before the pandemic. For Gateway to serve its purpose, the station would have to have more tracks. Finding a place to put them in the middle of Manhattan is the challenge Amtrak has handed to a group of companies led by Arup, an engineering and design firm.
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”Already, the station has been operating at a level of intensity far beyond the level that it was designed to support,” said Stephen J. Gardner, the chief executive of Amtrak. He added, “We’re going to double the width of the pipe, but Penn Station, as the bucket that receives the water from the pipe, is already full.”
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Mr. Gardner and Tony Coscia, Amtrak’s chairman, said the designers of the expansion would consider a range of alternatives, including adding tracks to the south of Penn Station, beneath the block of West 30th Street that is the longtime home of St. John the Baptist Roman Catholic Church. “That’s one that Amtrak has long discussed and we believe is feasible,” Mr. Gardner said.
Quote:
Coordinating the various pieces of Gateway and plans for Penn Station is complicated by the number of agencies involved. Amtrak owns most of the infrastructure, but the biggest users of Penn Station are the Long Island Rail Road and NJ Transit. The L.I.R.R. plans to start diverting some of its service to Grand Central Terminal later this year; a few years later, another New York commuter service, the Metro-North Railroad, plans to start running some trains to and from Penn.

Amtrak is taking the lead, in partnership with NJ Transit, on planning the expansion. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which operates the L.I.R.R. and Metro-North, is overseeing the renovation.
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  #1038  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 12:40 PM
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I might be more sympathetic to Amtrak's plea for more platforms if they gave a guarantee of what actual service increases they would run if they received the space. Fares on the Northeast Corridor are unacceptably high and capacity limited yet they seem not really interested in boosting that capacity even though they have the means to do so.

I can't say that the experience so far with how LIRR plans to utilize the East Side Access while also crippling Brooklyn service makes another gargantuan $10B+ terminal project appealing.
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  #1039  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 1:45 PM
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I might be more sympathetic to Amtrak's plea for more platforms if they gave a guarantee of what actual service increases they would run if they received the space. Fares on the Northeast Corridor are unacceptably high and capacity limited yet they seem not really interested in boosting that capacity even though they have the means to do so.

I can't say that the experience so far with how LIRR plans to utilize the East Side Access while also crippling Brooklyn service makes another gargantuan $10B+ terminal project appealing.

Amtrak owns Penn Station, but the expansion isn’t necessarily about Amtrak service (which is now centered in the new Moynihan Hall). But improved access overall is good for everyone at Penn Station, and could do away with the daily delays.

The Gateway project alone is necessary to ensure that even current level of service is not threatened (which it currently is).
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  #1040  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2022, 3:44 PM
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I can't say that the experience so far with how LIRR plans to utilize the East Side Access while also crippling Brooklyn service makes another gargantuan $10B+ terminal project appealing.
I'm not sure how this is true. Only 5% of LIRR travellers head to Atlantic Terminal and only 2% have DT Broklyn as their final destination. Yes most service will operate as a Jamaica-Atlantic shuttle, but with increased service how is that such a big deal?
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