Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by giallo

I haven't seen anything too hardcore lately, but I saw a first on 5th near Cambie yesterday afternoon.

My wife and I were walking along 5th between Alberta St and Yukon St. We were heading to Save-On Foods on Cambie when I saw a group huddled around each other with all of their stuff in a circle around them. They looked pretty cracked-out, so I crossed to the other side of the street, and took a passing glance their way. And right there, on the street curb facing the street, in full view of whoever was walking, driving or cycling by was a woman shooting up. Now I've seen plenty of people shoot up in Vancouver, but it's usually in an alley, or behind a bit of cover; a door's alcove, behind a planter etc (not counting the DTES, of course), but she was there shooting up right on the curb, facing the street.

I know we're past this drug epidemic being confined to the DTES, but seeing this happen at 2pm on a street full of coffee shops, galleries and boutiques, a block away from the VPD's headquarters was pretty nuts. Again, it wasn't that drugs were being consumed, it's how open and raw it was in an area where you wouldn't expect to see it.

that's pretty common these days. Last year while walking down water street, in a doorway there were two people, completely knocked out holding needles in their hands still, they both looked dead, was not sure if one is expected to alert someone? Either way, there were some tourists also passing who looked horrified at the sight of two people with needles passed out in a doorway across from where Maison Kitsune now is. Back in the day shooting up was done in back alleys or out of sight, now it's just doing it wherever one feels like it now and it's supported.

Heard it's the same in San Francisco, watching a story about the decline there and former drug addicts were appalled that people shoot up openly anywhere, they said back in the day when they were using they did it as privately as possible out of sight.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

former drug addicts were appalled that people shoot up openly anywhere, they said back in the day when they were using they did it as privately as possible out of sight.

There is a hard balance to strike:

• Keep drug use stigmatized so it is done in private and order in the public realm is preserved, but potentially lose more people to overdoses because they use drugs alone with no one to help or watch them
• De-stigmatize drugs and provide a safe supply and (theoretically) reduce overdoses, but risk normalizing drug use and getting more people addicted

I couldn't care less about a pearl-clutching tourist feeling uncomfortable seeing drug use because the importance of that pales in comparison to saving a life by preventing an overdose in a private space. However, if the relaxation of drug laws and a lack of enforcement is not having the positive effects they are intended to have, something needs to change. I think the disconnect occurs because some people on here view drug users as lost causes and would accept some "breakage" due to overdoses in private spaces if that led to more tourism dollars. I think that mindset is unconscionable.

I'm not sure that means going back to the way it was, but maybe it does mean a more heavy handed approach with involuntary rehab or changing sentencing rules for repeat offenders. What I absolutely do not agree with is turning the Downtown Eastside into some kind of "Hampersterdam" because that doesn't benefit local businesses, the drug users, residents, or anyone else.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

And if you really wanted change, you'd do more that complain on a meaningless message board.

Well, you can be rest-assured that your incessant complaints on a "meaningless message board" about "whiners" won't change a thing too.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Vin

Well, you can be rest-assured that your incessant complaints on a "meaningless message board" about "whiners" won't change a thing too.

To the gulag with you!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Actually, Klazu rarely hopes for positive change. Instead, he wishes misery and pain on people and worldwide humiliation for our city.

Some samplings of his recent posts:



Those don't sound like constructive comments to me.

Aside from this thread, the only thing I have known Klazu for is posting photos that show how beautiful Vancouver is.

So no.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

There is a hard balance to strike:

I think the limit for the general public is when these guys get to the point of being mentally unstable and start attacking random bystanders. It's no different to gang members shooting each other. No one really cares if they are knocking each other off in Abbotsford but when it happens at 2PM at a shopping mall then the viewpoint changes.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Aside from this thread, the only thing I have known Klazu for is posting photos that show how beautiful Vancouver is.

So no.

And queue the right-wing apologist, 6 provinces away, coming in for the save….

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

And queue the right-wing apologist, 6 provinces away, coming in for the save….

I did not know there was a residency requirement for this thread.

Oh and... "right wing" = "anyone who doesn't agree with everything I say".

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Aside from this thread, the only thing I have known Klazu for is posting photos that show how beautiful Vancouver is.

So no.

You mean photos of his "performance SUV" with Burnaby as the backdrop? /s

I do appreciate his photos, I just don't agree with his opinions

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I did not know there was a residency requirement for this thread.

Oh and... "right wing" = "anyone who doesn't agree with everything I say".

Ignore this guy. Some folks here will resort to name-calling or make despicable comments when they are backed to a corner and can no longer retort properly.

Vancouver proper's quality of life is really going downhill, and many egoistic individuals are just here to shut everyone else's voices down. People of such attitudes are why this City is not recovering. The mayor is one of them: a big-time denier who should be booted out ASAP.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

You mean photos of his "performance SUV" with Burnaby as the backdrop? /s

I do appreciate his photos, I just don't agree with his opinions

Nice try to soil someone's reputation first. That's low.

Klazu has the right to be disappointed at what he sees as a lack of growth and the disorderliness of this city, and the choice of what he thinks as nicer subjects to post here at SSP. If the photos are not so much of Vancouver of late, so be it.

Please be civil.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Let me repeat myself, again: public disorder has increased AND there are right-wing fear-mongers in this thread who exaggerate it as a talking point for their emotional authoritarian fantasies.

That Starbucks window was broken by kids doing a TikTok trend, btw. Sorry that it’s not a further sign of the apocalypse, although I’m sure many here will still view it that way.

Noticed last weekend that Starbucks window is still boarded up. Do they not want to reinstall just to have it broken again or can't they get the glass?

Also so a similarly sized boarded up window on Nordstroms.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Noticed last weekend that Starbucks window is still boarded up. Do they not want to reinstall just to have it broken again or can't they get the glass?

Also so a similarly sized boarded up window on Nordstroms.

Glass supply is hard to find these days, and slow.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Vin

Ignore this guy. Some folks here will resort to name-calling or make despicable comments when they are backed to a corner and can no longer retort properly.
.

Yeah, I know him from the main Canadian forum.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Vin

Vancouver proper's quality of life is really going downhill, and many egoistic individuals are just here to shut everyone else's voices down. People of such attitudes are why this City is not recovering. The mayor is one of them: a big-time denier who should be booted out ASAP.

Even if it's not even going downhill significantly, I'd argue it's still something that needs to be closely monitored for any signs of decline.

It's a lot easier to lose 50 lbs. than 100 lbs.

The best day to start exercising is today. The second best day is tomorrow.

I wouldn't advise any city to wait until things get out of hand before nipping such things in the bud.

But that's just me, the "right-wing" progressive.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Glass supply is hard to find these days, and slow.

Forget IT!

Great business idea of the 21st century in Vancouver:

Invest in a window glass or plywood manufacturing company here in Vancouver. Can make a real killing!

Graffiti removal firm isn't bad either.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Even if it's not even going downhill significantly, I'd argue it's still something that needs to be closely monitored for any signs of decline.

It's a lot easier to lose 50 lbs. than 100 lbs.

The best day to start exercising is today. The second best day is tomorrow.

I wouldn't advise any city to wait until things get out of hand before nipping such things in the bud.

But that's just me, the "right-wing" progressive.

Agreed. And that's why NYC improved tremendously in the 90s and 2000s when it had the "Broken Windows" policy. Things are starting to go out of hand again under over-liberal and self-defeating policies, but that's another story for another time.

Vancouver has been letting things go out of hand for quite a while now, and the pandemic restrictions made matters worse. Everyone needs to double their efforts to make this work, including the "whiners", but frankly speaking, nothing much can be achieved if the very top maintains the status quo.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by Vin

Nice try to soil someone's reputation first. That's low.

LOL, having a "performance" SUV is a stain on a reputation

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Vin

Nice try to soil someone's reputation first. That's low.

As I noted, it was a sarcastic comment. Klazu takes plenty of beautiful pictures which I appreciate.

But it's not soiling someone's reputation when he literally has posted pictures of his car on here, and recently referred to his vehicle as a "performance SUV".

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, I know him from the main Canadian forum.

Nice to see you making friends with the biggest troll in the Vancouver threads. Congratulations.