Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[WarrenC12]

Only 1 pedestrian, time to reduce the sidewalks and build another car lane.

[vanman]

Arguing against bike lanes in the 2020s is like arguing for towers in the park or more freeway interchanges downtown. Just completely — backward thinking. Cities should be for pedestrians and cyclists first and foremost and I say that as somebody who still loves driving (at least on roadtrips).

I've always been fascinated with cities and have tried to explore as many as I possibly can over the years around the world. I've found the cities that stuck with me the most are the ones I could freely move around easily without a car. Montreal, New York, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Singapore, London. The absolute standouts were the cities that I could not only walk around easily but bike as well. Tokyo, Barcelona, Amsterdam. The cities I ended up not liking at all? LA, Miami, Dubai. Turns out being stuck in freeway traffic is soul crushing (especially on vacation).

Vancouver thankfully is heading in the direction of Amsterdam, where biking is so easy that it's faster and more convenient than any other mode of transportation. Already I can bike from South Vancouver to the seawall in less time than it would take me to pull my car out of the underground, drive to my destination and then find parking. As more
and more seperated lanes are built you see more and more people of all types using them. Parents with children, elderly etc. The volume of cyclists will only continue to grow along with the bike network until we reach a place where we are at the level of where Amsterdam is today, which by the way was far from a utopia for cyclists and pedestrians only as far back as the 70s.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

The bikes are two blocks ahead and aren't sitting in their vehicles like noobs. Or maybe they're sitting to the right of the photo waiting for the signal to change. What does this prove? I could post a photo of Pacific Street or Burrard Bridge or Seaside Bypass on a busy day as "proof" that we need 10x the current space dedicated to bikes.

Nope, they weren't up there either. I love how the Bike Lobby always says "I could pick a second in time when..." rather than admit the lanes aren't as well-used as is claimed. Notice how the highest stats are always thrown out for Burrard Bridge which is a reflection of it use as a leisure route rather than reducing vehicle traffic.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nope, they weren't up there either. I love how the Bike Lobby always says "I could pick a second in time when..." rather than admit the lanes aren't as well-used as is claimed. Notice how the highest stats are always thrown out for Burrard Bridge which is a reflection of it use as a leisure route rather than reducing vehicle traffic.

What is well used enough? How many bikes need to use it per day? Week? Year?

[Migrant_Coconut]

You can get from one end of Barcelona to the other much faster than Vancouver though. The geometry of North American cities (i.e. Europe-sized population over an Asia-sized surface area) lends itself more to long-distance modes of travel, and not many people are going to be biking from Metrotown or Lonsdale to Waterfront; I'd argue that larger amounts of affordable "live where you work" density are needed before cycling becomes mainstream, and even then, transit & walking is going to be easier.

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Only 1 pedestrian, time to reduce the sidewalks and build another car lane.

While I get the joke, cars and bikes are an optional part of the commute... walking isn't.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

While I get the joke, cars and bikes are an optional part of the commute... walking isn't.

I didn't say eliminate the sidewalk. Just reduce it to fit another car lane.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

I don’t think a picture like that is a very accurate assessment of things. It is also entirely possible that the left lane is backed up because that’s where people want to make a left turn to Hornby, the most direct path to Granville bridge to get out of downtown. Having an extra car lane by replacing the bike lane wouldn’t do anything to solve that.

if they hang a left onto Hornby they'll run smack into the one-way traffic coming into downtown.

But speaking of turning onto Hornby here's a weekday shot from mid-day in April showing the traffic slowdown caused by altering the left turn pattern from Smithe. Not so great for emissions, causing so much idling. Still no bikes visible though.

The whole Smith Street bike lane is a —. Our esteemed city traffic engineers didn't seem to grasp that almost all the vehicle traffic coming into downtown over the Cambie Street Bridge wants to execute right turns.

[IMG]bike2 by bcborn, on Flickr[/IMG]

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Notice how the highest stats are always thrown out for Burrard Bridge which is a reflection of it use as a leisure route rather than reducing vehicle traffic.

This is ridiculous. Thousands of people use the Burrard Bridge to get to work in the downtown core every day by bike. How else do you expect anyone west of Burrard to get over False Creek? The busiest time in those lanes is late afternoon which reflects rush hour patterns.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

not many people are going to be biking from Metrotown or Lonsdale to Waterfront

As someone who lived in Metrotown I took the train to work because my dress is rather formal and I could get work done on the train. But I saw plenty of people every morning commuting on the BC Parkway. Maybe they weren't going all the way downtown, but a 30 minute bike commute is not that crazy. Especially with e-bikes, I think we will see more and more people making longer commutes by bike.

Here's a fun anecdote: I saw a construction worker commute via Mobi to the site at Robson and Nicola today. While bikes are impractical for many construction workers or tradespeople who have to carry a lot of gear around, it was cool seeing blue and white collar workers alike commuting via bike.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The whole Smith Street bike lane is a —. Our esteemed city traffic engineers didn't seem to grasp that almost all the vehicle traffic coming into downtown over the Cambie Street Bridge wants to execute right turns.

That's the whole reason for the signal pattern: to avoid right-hooks from all of the right hand turns. The cars get signal priority; they'll be okay.

[Sheba]

Burnaby to install first reconciliation crosswalk

Burnaby’s first reconciliation crosswalk — the initiative of a Burnaby elementary class — is set to be installed later this summer.

A Grade 6 and 7 class at Westridge Elementary came up with the idea for the First Nations-themed crosswalk, which will be installed at the intersection of Drummond’s Walk Urban Trail and Union Street, a path near the school that’s well-used by students.

The crosswalk was designed by Atheana Picha, a Salish artist who is a member of the Kwantlen First Nation. It was unveiled at an event at the school on Monday.

The black-and-white design depicts thunderbirds mirroring each other.

“The thunderbird is a symbol that has links with many Indigenous cultures and is a powerful, brave creature,” said Picha in a statement. “I wanted this design to represent a feeling of moving forward in a bold and positive way.”

...


Illustration of crosswalk design by Salish artist Atheana Picha. Photo by Atheana Picha/City of Burnaby /jpg

[NetMapel]

Originally Posted by whatnext

if they hang a left onto Hornby they'll run smack into the one-way traffic coming into downtown.

But speaking of turning onto Hornby here's a weekday shot from mid-day in April showing the traffic slowdown caused by altering the left turn pattern from Smithe. Not so great for emissions, causing so much idling. Still no bikes visible though.

The whole Smith Street bike lane is a —. Our esteemed city traffic engineers didn't seem to grasp that almost all the vehicle traffic coming into downtown over the Cambie Street Bridge wants to execute right turns.

bike2 by bcborn, on Flickr

My bad I meant Howe street! I often get those two names mixed up in my mind hehe! In this particular picture you’ve posted, you can see they’re in a right-turn only lane. How does taking away the bike lane help with that? You want two right turn only lanes there? Otherwise the right-most lane is generally the only right turn only lane on a road.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

My bad I meant Howe street! I often get those two names mixed up in my mind hehe! In this particular picture you’ve posted, you can see they’re in a right-turn only lane. How does taking away the bike lane help with that? You want two right turn only lanes there? Otherwise the right-most lane is generally the only right turn only lane on a road.

whatnext probably means that removing the lane would allow right turns on red which are currently prohibited. However, the cars would still need to yield to the bike lane on Hornby, vehicle traffic on Hornby, and the large volume of pedestrians that cross Hornby. So I don't think the queue would be that much shorter.

IMO, any vehicles that were able to make the right-hand turn 15 or 30 seconds faster without the bike lane would just get caught at Hornby and Robson, since the volume of pedestrians crossing to/from Robson Square is so high and the pedestrian signal is extended thereof.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Yeah, basically just avoid driving on anything except Georgia, Davie, Howe/Seymour or Pacific unless you absolutely have to.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by NetMapel

My bad I meant Howe street! I often get those two names mixed up in my mind hehe!

Yep, as my mum says "all those H-streets" (Homer, Howe, Hornby, Helmcken, Hamilton)

Originally Posted by NetMapel

In this particular picture you’ve posted, you can see they’re in a right-turn only lane. How does taking away the bike lane help with that? You want two right turn only lanes there? Otherwise the right-most lane is generally the only right turn only lane on a road.

Actually, before the Hornby bike lane there were two right turn lanes from Smithe (a reflection of demand). With one right turn lane it becomes a bottleneck because not only can't vehicles turn right on a red light but they have to watch for cyclists coming up on their right and yield on a green light. Now one frequently sees traffic backed up onto Howe at Smithe as vehicles wait to turn right but are blocked by vehicles waiting to for the turn light onto Hornby. The city really did take a street which worked very well for bringing traffic into the city and fucked it up badly. The Cambie Street Bridge which feeds Smithe was the newest of the three bridges going into the core and should have the longest life but now it has been neutered.

Perhaps the best solution would have been what some have suggested, making Robson pedestrian/bike only and had all bike traffic from the bridge jog over on Beatty to Robson.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Perhaps the best solution would have been what some have suggested, making Robson pedestrian/bike only and had all bike traffic from the bridge jog over on Beatty to Robson.

How does that help all of the bike traffic coming over the Burrard St. bridge?

Besides you and others would lose their minds if this happened.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

How does that help all of the bike traffic coming over the Burrard St. bridge?

Besides you and others would lose their minds if this happened.

Huh? Traffic on Burrard would intersect with a Robson bike lane.

Unlike Robson there is really very little of interest destination-wise right on Smithe. That's what made it such a good commuter route.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Bikes left-turning onto Robson from Burrard sounds like a Very Bad Idea.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Bikes left-turning onto Robson from Burrard sounds like a Very Bad Idea.

Make an advance turn light then. But its not like there's a huge amount of bikes turning left from Hornby onto Smithe anyway,

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Huh? Traffic on Burrard would intersect with a Robson bike lane.

Unlike Robson there is really very little of interest destination-wise right on Smithe. That's what made it such a good commuter route.

So you're proposing a separated bike lane on Burrard instead of Hornby?

[scottN]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Bikes left-turning onto Robson from Burrard sounds like a Very Bad Idea.

1. The main bike lane coming off the Burrard bridge is on Hornby Street, not Burrard Street.
2. Bikes can turn left with a Box Turn, by crossing straight through the intersection on a green light, then waiting on the far side for the light to change. Many intersections have a bike box on the far side to serve as a waiting area for this purpose.

Robson is already closed to cars between Hornby and Howe, so doing a box turn off the bike lane from Hornby to Robson is easy by pulling off briefly into Robson Square.