DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

https://www.westword.com/news/denver-deadly-streets-update-13164103

Most bike lanes ever, more deaths than ever.

Perhaps denver streets should have been advocating for sidewalks rather than death lanes all this time after all.


Yeah yeah, ive seen the signs in recent years about dead pedestrians. Quickly followed with construction, funding, and celebrating of bike lanes. Get the fuck out of here with the complete lie sidewalks have been on the table for years.

First - don't speak for "poor Mexicans" dude. Just don't. We know you're not black or brown or poor or even originally from Denver. You're just another cranky NIMBY/troll who came on here to complain about high rises in RINO and how the City Park irrigation project was endangering the property values of a neighborhood you moved into within the last decade and whose real character you never knew. I've been half-convinced for a while that you started as a Zeppelin troll and may well be more than one person. Maybe you're even a troll alt for someone else. It doesn't really matter, but it is an indication of the sad state of moderation on this board that you weren't banned immediately years ago and that you continue to be able to log in and post publically.

But more importantly, you are, as always, egregiously wrong about everything. At least this time you are so wrong you have looped back around and are almost right. The way sidewalks are funded in Denver is dumb. The requirement to make homeowners pay for them is dumb. The inability of the city administration to change that is dumb. But bike lanes have nothing to do with any of that and bike lanes and sidewalks are not mutually exclusive - the budget for bike lanes does not have to take away from the sidewalk budget and we don't have to choose one or the other. The city is not choosing bike lanes on streets instead of sidewalks. And we all know you know that, you just want to fill your tiny diaper with anger and make the rest of us smell it.

And road deaths have increased, but not because of bike lanes and (once again) not just in Denver. It is a nation-wide phenomena that bucks trends in almost every other country in the world. Oddly enough, people have studied it and talked about it and if you wanted to you could read more about it (but we know you won't) It has a lot more to do with this country's preference for enormous diesel-powered death machines and the general lack of will to enforce or change regulation. Once upon a time automakers were concerned about pedestrian crashes and had to perform crash tests, and now they make trucks with hoods taller than many adults and with enormous blind spots. Add into that the insistence by all motorists that they get everywhere as quickly as possible, damn the consequences, and our streets are now fast-moving death traps for anyone NOT in an enormous truck.

So.. you could read up on all this and realize that these two things aren't related, but that you have two good points - that the way Denver pays for sidewalks is unequal and that road deaths have increased. You could use this knowledge to advocate for changes to both.

OR you could continue to post trollish ill-informed garbage that clogs this once-informative board and contributes to it's continued irrelevance. Whichever.

[TakeFive]

The Powers of Observation and Common Sense

It's not that Streetsblog propaganda is necessarily wrong but it 'conveniently' ignores real world observation and common sense.

With respect to Pedestrian - Vehicle conflicts' To wit:

Nearly seventy-five percent of all pedestrian accidents occur at night, primarily between 6 pm and midnight.

The reasons are clear and obvious:

• Wearing dark clothing - based on personal experience, this is huge. No I haven't experienced an accident but I am well aware of the risk.
• Impairment and/or distraction of either party but especially the pedestrian
• Walking into the vehicle right-of-way and not in a crosswalk

BTW, I finished my morning walk earlier and even in daylight I intentionally wear light, bright clothing as I assume 'some' responsibility for my own welfare. This also means I make myself aware of any vehicle traffic.

With respect to vehicle - bike conflicts

This is usually the fault of the drivers. It's also worth noting that 'we' drivers, even those of us who drive defensively, instinctively train our eyes to look out for larger objects and are more likely to not see motorcycles, bikes or pedestrians in the roadway. Those who ride may contribute to their own risk by naively assuming others will automatically see them and yield.

Originally Posted by coolmandan03

Nobody is addressing the actual cause for the additional bike/pedestrian deaths. GHSA has shown that 1) increase in cell phone use for drivers 2) 69% of the vehicle market share is trucks and SUVs. Deaths are twice as likely for bicyclist and pedestrians struck by an SUV than they are by a passenger car.

Of course, those features that make SUVs more deadly to pedestrians are what make them more safe for the occupants - which is why there has been a 6% decrease in traffic accident fatalities.

Speaking of Mexican's et al they love their trucks and with all the new construction or (apartment) renovation their are lots of trucks on the road.

While I can appreciate the physics of size the bottom line is it's never a good idea to walk in front of a moving vehicle of ANY size.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by bulldurhamer

https://www.9news.com/article/news/polit.../73-e09fcfcf-e603-4bed-8dd7-ffe7b95fb66e



So where is our sidewalk money? Oh i know, bike lanes


Btw this was november 2021. Now we’re supposed to vote to do it again? But this time it will hurt more, especially for those on the corners. But not some people of color but certain not all are exempted either. This is horrible. Stop trying to make the property owners carry all of your water then turn around and shame them for lack of yimbyness.

This sidewalk deal would cost some people a fortune. Absurd. Beyond absurd. Especially since we just passed millions for sidewalks that never reached a sidewalk.

If I were Mayor, which there's no chance of it ever happening, but for shits and giggles if I were, I would absolutely appoint you to head up DOTI. This kind of no-nonsense talk, while tough for many to hear, is exactly what that agency needs. If nothing else, you'd have the effect of substantially all of the agency quitting or being fired (by you) which, IMO, is still an improvement over this agency's doings.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by mojiferous

...It has a lot more to do with this country's preference for enormous diesel-powered death machines and the general lack of will to enforce or change regulation...

Nope - it has to do with our planning practices. Designing collector roads with 11-12' lane widths and a shoulder where parking is disallowed is contributing to increased vehicle-pedestrian deaths. We need 8' single lanes on two way streets flanked by parking for all but the busiest commercial roads and transit corridors. We need to stop designing our cities for vehicles to go any speed they want and we need to stop designing them for hook and ladder fire trucks which will ever EVER respond to a single story post war neighborhood. We also need to publicly shame utility companies who require minimum 30' road widths (without parking) for private roads and legally strip them of their power to do this.

The long failed experiment of "bigger is better" is over and it's time to fire transportation engineers far and wide in order to rid our cities of excessively accommodating road infrastructure so that we can stop spending ungodly sums of money on that stuff and instead focus on: 1) cities paying for more/better sidewalks, 2) cities paying for protected bike lanes, 3) cities expanding urban trail systems, 4) cities paying for tree lawns to protect pedestrians on sidewalks (and battle heat islands/air quality), and 5) allow for better cities to develop which aren't completely planned around vehicle movements. If you think anything of what we are developing today is anything but completely centered around vehicle movements, you must live a blissfully ignorant life (and I am jealous).

Did y

[wong21fr]

https://businessden.com/2022/06/14/ex-world-trade-center-project-in-rino-drops-planned-hotel/

Formativ is reprogramming the hotel portion of the WTC project as a 17-story, 310 unit residential tower. The office tower and parking garage continue to move forward as originally planned.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Is there any discussion over a potential groundbreaking date? I don't have a subscription so I am not able to read the article.

[Curtis Park]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Is there any discussion over a potential groundbreaking date? I don't have a subscription so I am not able to read the article.

Inoreader provides an RSS feed with no paywall.
https://www.inoreader.com/feed/https%3A%2F%2Fbusinessden.com%2Ffeed%2F

[TakeFive]

Not a surprise

Originally Posted by wong21fr

https://businessden.com/2022/06/14/ex-world-trade-center-project-in-rino-drops-planned-hotel/

Formativ is reprogramming the hotel portion of the WTC project as a 17-story, 310 unit residential tower. The office tower and parking garage continue to move forward as originally planned.

I thought the Tennessee company had bought that parcel but maybe they just had it under contract and never closed the deal.
-----------------------



Down here in the desert wider roads have a lot of advantages

Originally Posted by laniroj

The long failed experiment of "bigger is better" is over and it's time to fire transportation engineers far and wide in order to rid our cities of excessively accommodating road infrastructure so that we can stop spending ungodly sums of money on that stuff and instead focus on: 1) cities paying for more/better sidewalks, 2) cities paying for protected bike lanes, 3) cities expanding urban trail systems, 4) cities paying for tree lawns to protect pedestrians on sidewalks (and battle heat islands/air quality), and 5) allow for better cities to develop which aren't completely planned around vehicle movements. If you think anything of what we are developing today is anything but completely centered around vehicle movements, you must live a blissfully ignorant life (and I am jealous).

Perhaps it's a matter of being capable of being creative

Especially in the suburbs, most of our collector streets have been retrofitted with nice-sized bike lanes and with "extra' space you can create all manner of traffic calming devices from roundabouts for busier intersections to chicanes, bulbs, chokers many of which are landscaped. For arterial roads there's these fancy things called stoplights but stop signs still work as well.

Note: I do assume that a significant majority of taxpayers will want personal vehicles well into the future. That's not to say specific areas couldn't be car-free zones but I suspect this would be more the exception.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

...Perhaps it's a matter of being capable of being creative

Especially in the suburbs, most of our collector streets have been retrofitted with nice-sized bike lanes and with "extra' space you can create all manner of traffic calming devices from roundabouts for busier intersections to chicanes, bulbs, chokers many of which are landscaped. For arterial roads there's these fancy things called stoplights but stop signs still work as well...

My comment moreso speaks to the direct link between lane widths and speeds and how those two factors contribute to pedestrian/cyclist safety. Larger lane widths which, like electrical and fire equipment, are always growing in size and are directly contributing to unsafe pedestrian/cyclist conditions. Larger lane widths directly correlate to higher vehicle speeds and pedestrian/cyclist deaths. It's funny because a partial driver of road widths is the fire department and we probably induce more deaths via road widths than we would otherwise suffer from structure fires supposing we had "inadequate" lane widths (if you asked the fire department).

[mr1138]

Originally Posted by laniroj

My comment moreso speaks to the direct link between lane widths and speeds and how those two factors contribute to pedestrian/cyclist safety. Larger lane widths which, like electrical and fire equipment, are always growing in size and are directly contributing to unsafe pedestrian/cyclist conditions. Larger lane widths directly correlate to higher vehicle speeds and pedestrian/cyclist deaths. It's funny because a partial driver of road widths is the fire department and we probably induce more deaths via road widths than we would otherwise suffer from structure fires supposing we had "inadequate" lane widths (if you asked the fire department).

You are absolutely correct. The relationship between road width, lane width, vehicle speed, and pedestrian safety is very well established.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Looks like demo is complete for 1158 Delaware St

[TakeFive]

As often the case I suspect it's a matter of context

Originally Posted by laniroj

My comment moreso speaks to the direct link between lane widths and speeds and how those two factors contribute to pedestrian/cyclist safety. Larger lane widths which, like electrical and fire equipment, are always growing in size and are directly contributing to unsafe pedestrian/cyclist conditions. Larger lane widths directly correlate to higher vehicle speeds and pedestrian/cyclist deaths. It's funny because a partial driver of road widths is the fire department and we probably induce more deaths via road widths than we would otherwise suffer from structure fires supposing we had "inadequate" lane widths (if you asked the fire department).

I spend a lot of time on Collector Streets (as well as arterials) which are generally one lane in each direction.

Source:

Collectors
are major and minor roads that connect local roads and streets with arterials. Collectors provide less mobility than arterials at lower speeds and for shorter
distances. They balance mobility with land access. The posted speed limit on collectors is usually between 35 and 55 mi/h.

Especially in the suburbs (or neighborhoods close to downtown), there is little traffic during most of the day. Even during peak hours one lane can usually handle the traffic flow.

So presumably you are referring mostly to arterial streets which can be either four lane or even six lane.

While I'm familiar with 'urbanist' thinking, that can be problematic to traffic flow. It would depend on the specific street and its purpose. For example, some streets can easily restrict traffic to non-commercial drivers. But typically arterial streets should be able to accommodate semi-trailer trucks or Big Box trucks like beer delivery trucks etc.

Speed - is more a function of the driver and time of day. During busier times, speed in not an option, regardless of specific lane width.

Accidents (of all types) are most likely to happen at intersections. How narrow the lanes are on streets are irrelevant and can even be more hazardous.

[Denver]

Erosion Control Permit was just issues for the NAVA project 525 2th St. Given the development team behind the deal and their success with Lake House, I am cautiously optimistic this will come to reality.

[TakeFive]

They just recently wrapped up sales at Lakehouse

Originally Posted by Denver

Erosion Control Permit was just issues for the NAVA project 525 2th St. Given the development team behind the deal and their success with Lake House, I am cautiously optimistic this will come to reality.

By chance is this project for 575 E. 20th Avenue?

Colorado’s Only WELL-Certified Residential Community Sells-Out
May 31, 2022 - Mile High CRE

Lakehouse, a 12-story mixed-use community in Denver’s Sloan’s Lake neighborhood community, developed by NAVA Real Estate Development, is now officially sold out, after just one year on the market. The community averaged nine sales per month during the past 12 months.

According to NAVA's website:

Just two months after Nava Real Estate completed construction of its Lakehouse Residences, one of its penthouses sold for $3.3 million. The condo unit overlooking Sloan’s Lake topped the list of the priciest residential sales in the Denver metro area in April. The 3,357-square-foot unit, located at 4200 W. 17th Ave., Unit #1205, sits atop the 12-story Lakehouse Residences. It spans features three bedrooms and four bathrooms.

The unit sold April 10 to Thomas Keltner, according to public records. Keltner was formerly executive vice president and CEO of Americas and Global Brands for Hilton Hotels Corp., according to his LinkedIn profile.

[rds70]

Originally Posted by Denver

Erosion Control Permit was just issues for the NAVA project 525 2th St. Given the development team behind the deal and their success with Lake House, I am cautiously optimistic this will come to reality.

Opus took over the project in 2021.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/...-nava-real-estate-20th-pennsylvania.html

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

As often the case I suspect it's a matter of context

I spend a lot of time on Collector Streets (as well as arterials) which are generally one lane in each direction.

Source:

Especially in the suburbs (or neighborhoods close to downtown), there is little traffic during most of the day. Even during peak hours one lane can usually handle the traffic flow.

So presumably you are referring mostly to arterial streets which can be either four lane or even six lane.

While I'm familiar with 'urbanist' thinking, that can be problematic to traffic flow. It would depend on the specific street and its purpose. For example, some streets can easily restrict traffic to non-commercial drivers. But typically arterial streets should be able to accommodate semi-trailer trucks or Big Box trucks like beer delivery trucks etc.

Speed - is more a function of the driver and time of day. During busier times, speed in not an option, regardless of specific lane width.

Accidents (of all types) are most likely to happen at intersections. How narrow the lanes are on streets are irrelevant and can even be more hazardous.

The FHWA was developed for our interstate highway system's initial construction and is indeed the document (as updated/grossly expanded) all transportation agencies rely on for planning and this is PRECISELY why I made the comments I made. This go with the flow status quo thinking is what's making our cities bane for pedestrians, uninteresting, and altogether boring compared to development in nearly every other major foreign City around the globe. We are choosing this in America. We are choosing to require roads in low density single family home neighborhoods with 2-3 lanes and 11-12' travel lane widths. We are choosing to prioritize vehicle movements over people and it shows. As an 'entitled' millennial, it's despicable to me and I wish we would radically change our land use planning basis of decision making. Side note, I don't think my generation will do it because we can't seem to figure out what leadership is or how to be leaders and Gen X seemingly wants to live under a Vans shoe box and will eventually get passed over by millennials to become the forgotten generation. Maybe Gen Z will mount the horse?

Folks can debate on a high level all they want, but land planning in America is highly auto-centric with almost no regard for pedestrian experience. The extent of our pedestrian planning is a site triangle a every curb cut - great, checked that box! Change comes from the hard, boring, endless detail work which, at this point, is so complicated and repetitive, that we're basically in a permanent state of status quo which is so difficult to break (enter Donald Trump). It's why I think Polis is an effective governor because he can identify, comprehend, and implement a path to change - whether or not that's good or bad, each of us can decide, but the dude knows how to do it.

[laniroj]

The project at Colfax/Kalamath near the burger king looks like it's moving forward with work on-site. Can't remember the exact project, but thought it was multifamily. If so, I'm very happy to see this area getting some more love on the heals of that CoLab project - which I'm still not sure is that student housing or coliving or something? Love that the area has an option like that.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by laniroj

The project at Colfax/Kalamath near the burger king looks like it's moving forward with work on-site. Can't remember the exact project, but thought it was multifamily. If so, I'm very happy to see this area getting some more love on the heals of that CoLab project - which I'm still not sure is that student housing or coliving or something? Love that the area has an option like that.

Kalaco Apartments - 7 stories | 280 apts | 10,000 sf retail

https://denverinfill.com/2022/04/la-alma-lincoln-park-roundup-apr-2022.html

Project site from April and some renderings.

[TakeFive]

One (more) of the good things about DenverInfill
Is that they remind you of things you forgot.

I'm checking out the latest City Park West Roundup JUN 2022 and I realized I had plum forgotten about Broadstone Uptown which is now called Broadstone Kendrick.

Broadstone Kendrick. Formally known as Broadstone Uptown, Kendrick Uptown is now complete with residents moving in. This project features a pair of eight-story buildings that add a significant presence along East 18th Avenue. The contrast of facades between each of the buildings is also a welcome addition to the neighborhood.

Which brought back good memories.

Alliance Residential which builds the Broadstone brand (and now others) was an Early Bird to Denver. And you know what they say about Early Birds getting the worm and Alliance found a couple of great worm-sites and built two of my still favorite projects.

Their first (downtown) project which started as Broadstone on Market but changed to 2101 Market Street. From May 1, 2007:

Denver Infill Update: 2101 Market Breaks Ground

2101 Market, the project formerly known as the Broadstone Lofts, located on Block 036 in the Northeast Downtown district near Coors Field, celebrated its official groundbreaking today. The project consists of two parts: the complete renovation/conversion of the historic Piggly Wiggly warehouse building plus a three-story rooftop addition into 52 units, and the construction of a new 8-story mid-rise building adjacent to the historic structure featuring underground parking, 6,600 SF of ground-floor retail, and 174 units, for a project total of 226 apartment residences.

As I recall there was some back and forth around the Historical Piggly Wiggly building but the project turned out Very Nice. Ultimately the project ended up being called

TwentyOne01 on Market.





NEXT

Fast Forward to April 30, 2012

New Project: Broadstone Blake Street

Alliance Residential will be breaking ground this summer on Broadstone Blake Street, a 6-story, 164-unit apartment building located at the corner of 22nd and Blake, across from the right-field corner of Coors Field. In the late 2000s, Alliance completed 2101 Market ... This site was going to be a second phase to that project, known as 2120 Blake, but the financial crisis of 2008 intervened, so the Blake phase was put on hold.

Broadstone Blake Street will be a separate apartment community from its Market Street neighbor, complete with its own line-up of amenities including a WiFi lounge, pool, fitness center, business center, and outdoor spaces. Another neat design feature includes ground-floor units along Blake Street with stoop porches to give the building a more pedestrian-scaled frontage.

It's now called the Battery on Blake Street

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by laniroj

As an 'entitled' millennial, it's despicable to me and I wish we would radically change our land use planning basis of decision making. Side note, I don't think my generation will do it because we can't seem to figure out what leadership is or how to be leaders and Gen X seemingly wants to live under a Vans shoe box and will eventually get passed over by millennials to become the forgotten generation. Maybe Gen Z will mount the horse?

Change comes from the hard, boring, endless detail work which, at this point, is so complicated and repetitive, that we're basically in a permanent state of status quo which is so difficult to break (enter Donald Trump). It's why I think Polis is an effective governor because he can identify, comprehend, and implement a path to change - whether or not that's good or bad, each of us can decide, but the dude knows how to do it.

Not that I'm in your space (I'm not) but I'd rather progress in your direction than to REGRESS.

Unfortunately, the political winds are not blowing in a good direction. BTW, I do like Polis b/c has a desire to not be business-unfriendly.

I do like the growing (bipartisan) concern over crime. Interestingly, the black Chief of Police in Phoenix, Jeri Williams, just returned from speaking in front of a Senate committee in D.C. And Mayor Kate Gallego along with the city council just raised the starting pay of new police officers by $20,000 to go on a hiring binge. Both are concerned with the impact of crime in general and especially in minority neighborhoods and as the now 5th largest city neither wants Phoenix to end up like Philadelphia or Chicago.

The Economy feels like a slow moving Train Wreck

Understandably most people want to go back to the good ole days when the cost of gas, of groceries and housing were all cheap. Hard to blame them but we're likely at the front end of several years of pain and dislocation. Costs may moderate some but "Welcome to the New World."

It may be possible over time that we become less car-dependent but that will take decades not years. With the growing cost and inconvenience of EV's many will cling to their gasoline engines.


Billy Joel