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  #6341  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 3:20 PM
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Huh. Usually it’s the Minister of Transport getting the call, not a “lowly” MP.

It happens all the time with competing priorities. The biggest fish and/or most convincing complainants often get the service, or worse, expedited approval at the expense of diligence and rigor). This is the political side of aircraft/product certification that I hate. It’s how MAXes happen when taken to the extreme (note that I am NOT drawing a parallel here to your story…just saying that undue influence doesn’t serve the public interest).

We need more certification staff, specialist engineers specifically.

Last edited by YOWflier; Jun 8, 2022 at 3:32 PM.
     
     
  #6342  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 4:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyYOW View Post
Very curious what you’ve heard here, if anything, beyond dragging heels.

It’s worth noting that the aircraft is already certified in and by the state of design (Brazil). Transport Canada would be doing what’s called a validation exercise, focusing on areas where Canadian airworthiness regulations differ from those applied in the state of design. TC would also focus on any new and novel features or technologies where means and methods of compliance to regulations Embraer used are immature or atypical. It is possible snags have been encountered here, slowing things down.

Dragging of heels in a purposeful manner is not likely. However, there is no question that with a certain size of staff working domestic certifications and foreign validations, domestic gets the priority (appropriately so, to support Canadian industry).
More along the lines of the current state of affairs. Not enough staff, summer vacation kicking in, the glacial pace of government employees etc.
     
     
  #6343  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 9:42 PM
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Not YOW, but yowza!

Quote:
'Chaos' at Toronto's Pearson airport could continue until end of August, ex-Air Canada exec says
Minister of Transport Omar Alghabra says work continues to reduce wait times

Desmond Brown · CBC News
Posted: Jun 08, 2022 1:55 PM ET | Last Updated: 1 hour ago




Extremely long wait times affecting arriving and departing passengers at Toronto's Pearson airport are likely to continue until Labour Day, a former Air Canada executive said Wednesday.

"Chaos, messy, impossible, difficult," were the words used by Duncan Dee to describe the situation at Canada's busiest airport.

"It's not where you want to be," Dee told CBC Radio's Metro Morning.

Over the last two months, travellers at Pearson have faced long lineups, delays and cancellations, which some blame on continuing COVID-19 restrictions and a labour shortage.

Dee says while Canada's Minister of Transport Omar Alghabra has promised 400 new screening officers starting at the end of June, he doubts that that's going to make a huge difference.

"In terms of the customs delays, until the pandemic-era inspections are changed, I hate to think that this is something that's going to plague us through the entire summer," Dee said.

"Things should get a little bit easier for those travelling after Labour Day. Unfortunately, that's also when schools get back so families won't be able to travel as much."

On Wednesday, Alghabra announced on Twitter that the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority has now hired more than 850 new agents across Canada.

"This will help get you through security faster and on your way to your destination," he wrote in the tweet. "We will keep working to reduce wait times at airports."

The delays at Pearson gained added attention this week after former professional hockey player Ryan Whitney took to social media Monday to share his frustration after Air Canada cancelled flights and allegedly had minimal ground staff to assist affected passengers.

"This is the worst airport on earth, I'm telling you there's no other airport like this," Whitney said in a video posted on Twitter.

"I am so shocked at this place, it is the biggest disgrace known to man."

Meanwhile, Toronto business leaders held a news conference last month during which they urged Ottawa to end hours-long delays at Pearson.

They warned during that news conference that passengers would share their experiences with the rest of the world and that could negatively affect arrivals in the medium and long term.

"My concern is that this poor first impression will keep people from returning to Canada or stories of bad experiences here at Toronto's airport will force travellers to consider other locations and destinations instead," Edwin Frizzell, general manager of the Fairmont Royal York, said at that news conference.

Another business leader, Jan De Silva, president and CEO of the Toronto Region Board of Trade, said, "International passengers are being forced to wait for up to three hours, sometimes inside the aircraft they flew in on, because of longer processing times by customs officers."

Dee says dropping the COVID-19 screening will "certainly help solve the arrivals problems" at Pearson.

"Right now, according to the airports, it's taking four times longer for each traveller to be processed through customs, so if you remove those pandemic-era inspections, you're going to immediately see a four-fold decrease in the amount of time it takes to process passengers — so 30 to maybe 60 seconds per passenger instead of two to three minutes per passenger. That's a huge, huge savings right there," he said.

"On the security side, crew members, your flight attendants and pilots are inspected just like they are a traveller just coming off the street, so just stop that. That's something that other countries don't even do, but in Canada, we've decided that for some reason, the individuals flying the aircraft who all the passengers trust their lives with need to be inspected and need to have their liquids checked every time they go through the airport," Dee added.

In May, the Greater Toronto Airports Authority also called on Ottawa to urgently to the following to help alleviate the situation at Pearson Airport.

Among its recommendations:
  • Streamline or eliminate inbound legacy public health requirements at Canada's airports.
  • Eliminate random testing upon arrival from Canada's airports and look to options such as community wastewater testing.
  • Invest in government agency staffing and technology to achieve globally competitive service level standards.
  • Engage with the U.S. government to ensure staffing and capacity at preclearance sites return to pre-pandemic levels.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-pearson-airport-delays-1.6481605
     
     
  #6344  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2022, 11:56 PM
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Of course the fact that AC and WS are routing everyone through YYZ doesn't help. I know we should be supporting flights out of YOW, but given the choice of a direct flight out of YUL and a connection through YYZ, I know which option I would choose, until things get back to normal. I would certainly consider a connection through another airport, but at this point I would avoid YYZ at almost all costs.
     
     
  #6345  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 1:40 AM
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Avoiding YYZ and supporting YOW aren’t mutually exclusive.

It is possible again to connect through a US hub. Doing so is not the boogeyman some make it out to be.

AC connects plenty of people through YUL too.

AF will connect you on the bus service through YUL.

Any of the above are better than driving there.
     
     
  #6346  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 2:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyYOW View Post
Avoiding YYZ and supporting YOW aren’t mutually exclusive.
I agree (I did say, "I would certainly consider a connection through another airport").

Quote:
It is possible again to connect through a US hub. Doing so is not the boogeyman some make it out to be.
Even in normal times, connecting in a US hub, when traveling to a US destination, is far superior to connecting in YYZ (or YUL). Unfortunately the number of transboarder flights from YOW is limited right now.

Quote:
AC connects plenty of people through YUL too.
If that works, then great. Once again AC has limited flights between YOW and YUL and when I have looked at it, there has been a multiple hour layover in at least one (if not both) directions. Also, WS doesn't have any YOW-YUL flights.

Quote:
AF will connect you on the bus service through YUL.
That only works if you are flying AF (a round about route when flying within North America ), but if you are, I agree that would be best.

Quote:
Any of the above are better than driving there.
If you can, yes, but in many cases those options don't work.
     
     
  #6347  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 2:23 PM
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There’s no question that the options are more limited vs what they were pre-pandemic. How about posting your use case(s)? It’s easy to poke holes in generic comments when you have a specific scenario in mind.
     
     
  #6348  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 2:38 PM
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I've been avoiding Pearson for over a decade. That place has always been a gong show in one way or another and not worth the stress IMO if you can avoid it. I booked 3 different flights recently and each posed its own problems trying to get somewhere out of Ottawa:

Family trip to Orlando - No direct flights this summer. Avoiding TO and able to clear customs in Ottawa were my goals. Booked connection through Newark and fingers crossed the 2 hour layover is enough time to change terminals.

World Cup in November - Options were Ottawa - Toronto - Doha vs. Ottawa - Toronto - European City - Doha vs. MTL - Doha direct. Given my previous statements I think you can imagine which one I chose. I wanted to try flying YOW-YUL-DOH but flights YOW-YUL are all $500+ one way currently! VIA to Trudeau it is.

Las Vegas - Can't believe we don't have a flight. There is so much demand in Ottawa and it is all re-routed through Toronto for the most part. Either that or O'Hare seemed like the best options. Chose Chicago to avoid the dumpster fire at YYZ.

And those of you that haven't seen that Tweet by Ryan Whitney last week it's worth a watch:

https://twitter.com/ryanwhitney6/status/1533797008200310785

Quote:
I live at Toronto Pearson International airport. The worst place on earth. I smell so bad.
     
     
  #6349  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 4:12 PM
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The Doha case is the most glaring example of how much it hurts to not have LHR/FRA. In your case, though, I’d probably still have chosen to connect in YYZ on the gamble that November is sufficiently distant that the situation will be resolved. Plus, November is a relatively quiet travel month in general. Things should be a lot better based on that alone.

The others are logical routings to those places. I see no “problem” per se. Certainly not reasons to drive to another airport. The drive is a connection.

Last edited by YOWflier; Jun 9, 2022 at 4:38 PM.
     
     
  #6350  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 5:03 PM
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Air Canada cancels almost 10% of Toronto flights over seven days as staffing crunch, passenger surge hit Pearson airport

Eric Atkins, Transportation Reporter
The Globe and Mail
Published 5 hours ago | Updated 1 hour ago


Air Canada cancelled about 360 flights at Toronto Pearson in the first seven days of June – almost 10 per cent of its schedule – amid staffing shortages and a surge in passengers at Canada’s busiest airport.

The cancellations were split between arrivals and departures, according to Cirium, the aviation data company that provided the numbers to The Globe and Mail.

A rebound in demand for air travel has overwhelmed the government agencies that conduct security, customs and immigration checks at Pearson and other major Canadian airports. The aviation industry says its reduced work force is unable to manage the increase in passengers while still enforcing COVID-19 rules. Vaccine mandates for employees of federal agencies and airlines have also reduced staff numbers, the industry says, as some employees refused to be vaccinated.

Peter Fitzpatrick, a spokesman for Air Canada, said the airline’s overall completion rate remains high but staffing problems at the government agencies have affected operations. “In some cases, longer security and customs processing times at airports and recurring air traffic control limitations imposed on aircraft movements, at Pearson in particular, have forced airlines to cancel flights,” he said.

Passengers have complained of being held on parked planes before being allowed to disembark for customs clearance, as well as long waits to have their baggage and pockets checked before boarding.

WestJet Airlines cancelled 3 per cent or about 16 of its arriving flights at Pearson, from June 1 to 7, Cirium said. Another 10 departing flights were cancelled. WestJet did not answer questions on Wednesday or Thursday morning.

The health checks administered at customs kiosks have increased passenger processing times to about two minutes each from 30 seconds. This adds up to long waits, delayed planes and can cut into crews’ rest times, making them unavailable for work.

Annick Guérard, chief executive officer of Transat AT Inc., said the COVID-19 protocols at airports are incompatible with the higher volumes of passengers expected within a month.

“We’ve had delays at Pearson and other places,” Ms. Guérard said on Thursday. “There are challenges in Europe, as well.”

As the summer travel season nears, Monette Pasher, head of the Canadian Airports Council, said the government should alleviate the bottlenecks by dropping the health checks and rules put in place to contain the pandemic. These include vaccine requirements for passengers and employees and random tests for travellers, all of which take time to process and administer.

“We want to make sure the problem doesn’t get worse,” Ms. Pasher said from Halifax. “It really slows down the system.”

Transport Minister Omar Alghabra told reporters Wednesday that the government has taken steps to alleviate the bottlenecks, including adding 400 security screening agents. He hinted that more steps will be taken but declined to elaborate.

Mr. Alghabra pointed to the regular meetings of a stakeholder group of people representing airlines, airports, public health, security and customs agencies. “We are, of course discussing bottlenecks,” he said. “We’ve made some adjustments. More adjustments are taking place.”

In a statement, the government said, “Our efforts are having an impact – as wait times for security continue to decrease at all major airports. While we are seeing some issues at Toronto Pearson International Airport that we have raised with the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, the vast majority of airports across the country are not seeing similar delays.”

On June 6, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority screened more than 131,000 passengers at Canada’s eight largest airports, compared with 162,000 on the same day in 2019 and 17,000 a year ago.

The Crown corporation contracts out the work to three private companies, which laid off employees during the pandemic and are having trouble replacing them. The Canada Border Services Agency and U.S. Customs and Border Protection, which provides pre-clearance at some airports for U.S.-bound travellers, are facing similar problems.

With the pandemic easing, the number of travellers is expected to rise by July, putting more strain on airport systems and frustrating passengers, Ms. Pasher said.

More than 490,000 passengers on 2,700 flights landing at Pearson Airport in May were held on planes to reduce overcrowding and long lineups inside the terminals. “Travellers are being further delayed because of the time it takes to select passengers for random testing,” the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, the airport’s operator, said Thursday in a statement.

“We’re thankful for the steps that the federal government has taken and their recognition that more needs to be done,” said Deborah Flint, the chief executive officer of the GTAA. “This is about much more than Toronto Pearson. It’s about global perceptions of our country and the risk that Canada will lose billions of dollars from tourism and business activities if travellers decide that coming to Canada this summer simply isn’t worth the hassle.”

The lineups, delays and cancellations have also plagued airports in London and Amsterdam’s Schiphol. Dutch airline KLM has cancelled dozens of flights at Schiphol to reduce the congestion, which has been blamed on airport management.

Less than a two-hour drive away, Buffalo Niagara International Airport has long been an alternative to Toronto Pearson. The Western New York hub has seen a steep rise in Canadian travellers since April, said Pascal Cohen, its senior manager of aviation business development, although it is impossible to say why. “Is it because of congestion at Pearson, or is it because Canadians don’t need to take a COVID test any more to return to Canada?” Mr. Cohen said.

About 33 per cent of travellers starting their trips at Buffalo airport in June were Canadian, according to terminal surveys, compared with 25 per cent in June, 2019, before the pandemic halted most air travel, Mr. Cohen said. For all of 2019, 38 per cent of the airport’s originating travellers were Canadian.

Even before the Pearson congestion problems, Buffalo airport marketed itself to Canadians as a hub with shorter lineups and lower fees and fares. There are no vaccine, mask or quarantine requirements for air travel within the United States. Nor do passengers flying within the U.S. face customs screening. Canadians and other non-U.S. citizens entering the U.S. by land must show proof of vaccination but do not have to provide a negative test.

“We talk about two things: save time, save money,” Mr. Cohen said.

In the U.K., British Airways, EasyJet, Wizz Air and other carriers have cancelled hundreds of flights at Heathrow and Gatwick airports.

British Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has scolded the airlines for selling tickets they cannot honour.

John Holland-Kaye, the chief executive of Heathrow, said this week that travellers could face another 18 months of chaos before the aviation industry is able to hire enough people.

With a report from Marieke Walsh.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...to-pearson-airport-flight-cancellations/
     
     
  #6351  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 5:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyYOW View Post
There’s no question that the options are more limited vs what they were pre-pandemic. How about posting your use case(s)? It’s easy to poke holes in generic comments when you have a specific scenario in mind.
A few months ago we were booking flights for our family of 4 (so price differentials are quadrupled) to MCO in August. I am not sure if that flight AuxTown mentioned was available back then, but if it was, that would have been a good option (I don't think I would want much shorter a connection as missed connections are a royal pain).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyYOW View Post
The drive is a connection.
Yes and no. Looking at AuxTown's flight via EWR, the total travel time is 6h25m with a 1h56m layover in EWR. A direct non-stop flight from YUL is 3h12m. That is a difference of 3h13 minutes. For me, the drive to YUL is about 90 minutes longer than the drive to YOW, though with traffic it could be a bit longer, so even if I gave myself an extra 90 minutes for eventualities, I am still marginally ahead. Both flights are transboarder flights, so the amount of time you need to arrive early at the airport is about the same.

For the return flight it is faster but it only has a 1h2m connection, which is very tight. For the direct flight to YUL, you don't need to give yourself extra time as your car is just waiting there for you.

Had I been aware of the EWR option at the time of booking (as I said, I am not sure if it was available back then or not), I would have given it serious consideration, but flying on a direct flight back to where your car is parked anyway has its advantages, and that connection in EWR for the return flight is tight.
     
     
  #6352  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Yes and no.
lol
     
     
  #6353  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AuxTown View Post
I've been avoiding Pearson for over a decade. That place has always been a gong show in one way or another and not worth the stress IMO if you can avoid it. I booked 3 different flights recently and each posed its own problems trying to get somewhere out of Ottawa:

Family trip to Orlando - No direct flights this summer. Avoiding TO and able to clear customs in Ottawa were my goals. Booked connection through Newark and fingers crossed the 2 hour layover is enough time to change terminals.

World Cup in November - Options were Ottawa - Toronto - Doha vs. Ottawa - Toronto - European City - Doha vs. MTL - Doha direct. Given my previous statements I think you can imagine which one I chose. I wanted to try flying YOW-YUL-DOH but flights YOW-YUL are all $500+ one way currently! VIA to Trudeau it is.

Las Vegas - Can't believe we don't have a flight. There is so much demand in Ottawa and it is all re-routed through Toronto for the most part. Either that or O'Hare seemed like the best options. Chose Chicago to avoid the dumpster fire at YYZ.

And those of you that haven't seen that Tweet by Ryan Whitney last week it's worth a watch:

https://twitter.com/ryanwhitney6/status/1533797008200310785

Agree with all of these. Though I don't see any reason to be loyal to Ottawa airport to encourage more flights. In the aggregate it might help but of course my individual action is irrelevant. Too logical I guess.

Incidentally does Canada have an allocation of world cup tickets? Or is it a general ticket buying process.

A drive is easier than a connection though recently with parking under construction at YUL I am changing my mind a bit. Last time I went there were no spots. I was only allowed in as I had a reservation and it was still a struggle to find a free spot. Actually Ottawa had a lot of sections closed also causing problems in March but assume they are opening those back up as it is basically cost free.
     
     
  #6354  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyYOW View Post
The Doha case is the most glaring example of how much it hurts to not have LHR/FRA. In your case, though, I’d probably still have chosen to connect in YYZ on the gamble that November is sufficiently distant that the situation will be resolved. Plus, November is a relatively quiet travel month in general. Things should be a lot better based on that alone
I disagree. a 90min drive to get on a 14hr nonstop flight to your final destination on the other side of the world is a no-brainer
     
     
  #6355  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by AuxTown View Post
I've been avoiding Pearson for over a decade. That place has always been a gong show in one way or another and not worth the stress IMO if you can avoid it. I booked 3 different flights recently and each posed its own problems trying to get somewhere out of Ottawa:

Family trip to Orlando - No direct flights this summer. Avoiding TO and able to clear customs in Ottawa were my goals. Booked connection through Newark and fingers crossed the 2 hour layover is enough time to change terminals.

World Cup in November - Options were Ottawa - Toronto - Doha vs. Ottawa - Toronto - European City - Doha vs. MTL - Doha direct. Given my previous statements I think you can imagine which one I chose. I wanted to try flying YOW-YUL-DOH but flights YOW-YUL are all $500+ one way currently! VIA to Trudeau it is.

Las Vegas - Can't believe we don't have a flight. There is so much demand in Ottawa and it is all re-routed through Toronto for the most part. Either that or O'Hare seemed like the best options. Chose Chicago to avoid the dumpster fire at YYZ
Think you chose well.
Re: UA to Florida. I travel a bunch on UA too. Here's my 2c - #1 deciding factor on the EWR vs IAD connection is the gauge. i.e., take the E70 over E145/CR2 as I find it's less likely to be delayed/cnx (no stats), #2 I take IAD over EWR if all else equal, #3 If i connect EWR southbound, I always take the AM flight. (for example, I'll take the Wed 6am flight but not the Tues 4pm flt)

YOW > West coast USA = ORD all day, every day now. shame we don't have DTW any more
     
     
  #6356  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2022, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by solo748 View Post
I disagree. a 90min drive to get on a 14hr nonstop flight to your final destination on the other side of the world is a no-brainer
A 2hr drive to connect to a nonstop with no trip protection in case of misconnect rather than a 40min flight connecting to a nonstop with misconnect protection. No brainer indeed.

But yeah, for me any flight longer than 10-11 hours is a crime against humanity unless in J, and even then no thanks unless no choice. I’ll take 8+6 with a few hours in an airport drinking beer as my preferred choice if it exists.

Last edited by YOWflier; Jun 10, 2022 at 12:39 AM.
     
     
  #6357  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2022, 12:42 AM
YOWetal YOWetal is offline
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Originally Posted by FlyYOW View Post
A 2hr drive to connect to a nonstop with no trip protection in case of misconnect rather than a 40min flight connecting to a nonstop with misconnect protection. No brainer indeed.

But yeah, for me any flight longer than 10-11 hours is a crime against humanity unless in J, and even then no thanks unless no choice. I’ll take 8+6 with a few hours in an airport drinking beer as my preferred choice if it exists.
You think he's missing his "connection" on a drive to Montreal? Has it literally every taken more than 1 hour more than usual to drive to YUL from Ottawa? Ottawa airport also a 30 minute drive for most of us.

8 or 14 personally is to some extent all the same and getting off a 8 to connect to a 6 really sucks. Especially going further east.
     
     
  #6358  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2022, 1:10 AM
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Maybe? What if you get stuck in traffic, or a collision, or a flat, whatever…and that causes a miss? This is performing a manual connection and offers no itinerary protection. It’s the same as buying two different air tickets and manually patching an itinerary.

I lived in Montreal for years and have commuted back and forth literally thousands of times. I can’t tell you how many times my 2hr trip became 2.5 or 3 or more. So you give yourself extra buffer and there goes the “it’s only 1.5 hours difference ” argument.

Btw, since we’re talking travel duration preferences ever taken a 14+ hour flight in economy? Like an actual 14+, not a “I did 10 once so 14 is no biggie “. Murder. And I don’t disagree that 8+6 sucks…it’s a matter of sucking less.

Anyway, different strokes. Life’s short do what makes you happy.

Last edited by YOWflier; Jun 10, 2022 at 1:30 AM.
     
     
  #6359  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2022, 1:42 AM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
A few months ago we were booking flights for our family of 4 (so price differentials are quadrupled) to MCO in August. I am not sure if that flight AuxTown mentioned was available back then, but if it was, that would have been a good option (I don't think I would want much shorter a connection as missed connections are a royal pain).



Yes and no. Looking at AuxTown's flight via EWR, the total travel time is 6h25m with a 1h56m layover in EWR. A direct non-stop flight from YUL is 3h12m. That is a difference of 3h13 minutes. For me, the drive to YUL is about 90 minutes longer than the drive to YOW, though with traffic it could be a bit longer, so even if I gave myself an extra 90 minutes for eventualities, I am still marginally ahead. Both flights are transboarder flights, so the amount of time you need to arrive early at the airport is about the same.

For the return flight it is faster but it only has a 1h2m connection, which is very tight. For the direct flight to YUL, you don't need to give yourself extra time as your car is just waiting there for you.

Had I been aware of the EWR option at the time of booking (as I said, I am not sure if it was available back then or not), I would have given it serious consideration, but flying on a direct flight back to where your car is parked anyway has its advantages, and that connection in EWR for the return flight is tight.
With so little international traffic these days, YOW pre clearance and customs on arrival are huge time savers plus no 2 draining hour drive home after a long day.

I agree that the equation for transborder connection vs DOH is completely different.

I personally don’t have a lot of sympathy for the airlines routing almost everything through 3 hubs and then whining about it. One airline alliance in particular that was going to operate 333s & 343s in 2020 could have easily routed 30k pax a month through internationally deserted YOW and put a small dent in the YYZ & YUL chaos.

Friday’s departure count: 69

Friday’s cancellation count: 1

WS3489 scheduled to depart at 2145 is delayed until 2358. That flight has been delayed a lot in recent weeks and often until after 2300.
     
     
  #6360  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2022, 2:02 PM
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Today’s departure count: 57

WS 3489 departures last night at 0126.
     
     
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