Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Instead of dissing the use of that lane for bikes, what I'm really wondering is why people are giving the horse-drawn carriages a pass? Why does everyone think it's fine for that business to block traffic? Those faux-tram buses could do the same job without having to plod along at walking pace between pull-outs.

If we spent the money on widening Stanley Park drive (as if that would ever happen) in order to eliminate the traffic jams caused by those carriages, it would essentially amount to a direct subsidy to allow that business to stay in operation. For the life of me I just can't fathom why we would sink money to support a private business like that.

I can understand being anti-bike or anti-car, but this is the first anti-carriage argument I've ever seen; more Vancouverites like them than both the former put together. And where else would the Clydesdales go if not the seawall? There's only one through road in Stanley Park to begin with.

And I said nothing about widening the seawall. Neither cars nor bikes need this much room; in theory, there's room for a third lane with the existing space.

[WarrenC12]

Horse drawn carriages are a stinky mess based on animal cruelty. Past time they were gone.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Horse drawn carriages are a stinky mess based on animal cruelty. Past time they were gone.

I thought they were eco-friendly transportation?

[Changing City]

It seems that bike lanes in Vancouver aren't that big a deal any more, according to the annual Research Co survey results reported in BIV.

The Stanley Park Bike lane is popular as well. "In our most recent survey, 63 per cent of Vancouverites think a temporary bike lane on Park Drive in Stanley Park is a “good idea,” while 24 per cent consider it a “bad idea”. (Even drivers favour it more than those who don't).

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The Stanley Park Bike lane is popular as well. "In our most recent survey, 63 per cent of Vancouverites think a temporary bike lane on Park Drive in Stanley Park is a “good idea,” while 24 per cent consider it a “bad idea”. (Even drivers favour it more than those who don't).

Temporary might be a pretty big determination there.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It seems that bike lanes in Vancouver aren't that big a deal any more, according to the annual Research Co survey results reported in BIV.

The Stanley Park Bike lane is popular as well. "In our most recent survey, 63 per cent of Vancouverites think a temporary bike lane on Park Drive in Stanley Park is a “good idea,” while 24 per cent consider it a “bad idea”. (Even drivers favour it more than those who don't).

Asked before summer hit. After waiting in those weekend lineups they might feel differently.

Also, I noticed the Parks Board seems to have driven the operation at Prospect Point out of business, as the whole building was boarded up.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Asked before summer hit. After waiting in those weekend lineups they might feel differently.

Also, I noticed the Parks Board seems to have driven the operation at Prospect Point out of business, as the whole building was boarded up.

Sorry, this won't fit your negative narrative, but the website says 'Closed For The Season, Re-opening Ice Cream and gift store Thursday June 2' So you can blame the can't be arsed concession holder.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Sorry, this won't fit your negative narrative, but the website says 'Closed For The Season, Re-opening Ice Cream and gift store Thursday June 2' So you can blame the can't be arsed concession holder.

So the cafe's not reopening? Congrats to the Parks Board for screwing themselves out of concession revenue then by going to war with the operator. Not to mention spending all that money on reconfiguring the lot and bus parking not long ago. Money flushed down the toilet when the bike lane rendered it nearly useless.

I also see that vengeful majority on PB seem to be hellbent on destroying the Teahouse business by creating a vehicle entrance so obscure and awkward that it is borderline criminal in terms of how dangerous it is.

[Sheba]

Copied from Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

Originally Posted by Klazu

Our weather, climate, geography, crime and how spread out our cities are, make Vancouver and Copenhagen/Amsterdam almost polar opposites. Yet, some people still try to cram same solutions in here, as if they would ever work to the same effect. They won't and never will.

Cycling should be a small complimentary piece to rest of transportation infrastructure, not the leading factor for how much of the funds are getting spent. We are pandering an audience the size of a peanut that is mostly leisure cyclists anyways. I don't hate cycling itself, but how over-represented it is in every decision.

I find 'we're spending too much on bike lanes' ironic coming from someone who's complained about how we don't have enough car lanes. The reason more is being spent on bike infrastructure now is a result of many years (decades) of under-spending and dropping bike projects to balance budgets. Then the pandemic hit and many more people started riding bikes, e-bikes, scooters, etc and suddenly money finally starts getting spent to try to catch up on bike lanes because oh gosh we're behind on what's needed. Hell a lot of my neighbours are older seniors who drive if they have to travel more than a couple blocks and they are all for adding bike lanes. They can see more people are riding and having them mixed in with car traffic is a recipe for disaster.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I find 'we're spending too much on bike lanes' ironic coming from someone who's complained about how we don't have enough car lanes. The reason more is being spent on bike infrastructure now is a result of many years (decades) of under-spending and dropping bike projects to balance budgets. Then the pandemic hit and many more people started riding bikes, e-bikes, scooters, etc and suddenly money finally starts getting spent to try to catch up on bike lanes because oh gosh we're behind on what's needed.

There's very much an element of "if you build it they will come" with bike infrastructure. Lack of safe routes is a major reason that people are reluctant to bike, when those routes are created bikers come out of the woodwork. It's induced demand!

And technological advances are bringing a wave of electric bikes that open up cycling to even more people who might not previously have considered it. The form a larger and larger proportion of the bikes I see on the road.

[Migrant_Coconut]

That said, bike demand is inducing a lot slower than with cars or transit; people evidently like not having to pedal a bus. E-bikes and e-scooters are going to change that equation, but they're still not necessarily the best fit for some roads.

Originally Posted by Sheba

... Hell a lot of my neighbours are older seniors who drive if they have to travel more than a couple blocks and they are all for adding bike lanes. They can see more people are riding and having them mixed in with car traffic is a recipe for disaster.

I think most of the forum can agree on bikes on side streets and some arterials; the biggest controversies come when the 10% of confrontational bikers needs (let's say) two of four lanes on an arterial because "principle," when there's already perfectly good bikeways on the side streets. At that point even the pedestrians and transit users put their foot down.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

There's very much an element of "if you build it they will come" with bike infrastructure. Lack of safe routes is a major reason that people are reluctant to bike, when those routes are created bikers come out of the woodwork. It's induced demand!

And technological advances are bringing a wave of electric bikes that open up cycling to even more people who might not previously have considered it. The form a larger and larger proportion of the bikes I see on the road.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That said, bike demand is inducing a lot slower than with cars or transit; people evidently like not having to pedal a bus. E-bikes and e-scooters are going to change that equation, but they're still not necessarily the best fit for some roads.

I don't know that I'd really call it induced demand. When I was riding there were areas I wouldn't go due to a lack of safe routes - safe routes open more areas to bikes. I think the more recent demand is from people skipping the bus during the pandemic and opting to ride a bike instead, and now that they have some have decided they're not going back.

I would love to have an e-bike but (aside from the cost) they're too appealing to thieves, who already have a love affair with bikes. Maybe some day I'll get a newer lighter bike that I can attach a battery to - I don't mind pedalling (hell I have a stationary bike facing my tv) but I could do with some help getting up hills...

[Migrant_Coconut]

Question is, how many more converts would you get? Even bike-friendly Paris only has about 5% of mode share (15% walk, 20% drive, 59% take transit)... I guess that's Vancouver's benchmark?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Question is, how many more converts would you get? Even bike-friendly Paris only has 5% of mode share (15% walk, 20% drive, 59% take transit)... I guess that's Vancouver's benchmark?

Is that travel to work? Or all trips?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Is that travel to work? Or all trips?

Going by context, all trips. Source here. Different source in English.

[Conrad Yablonski]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Horse drawn carriages are a stinky mess based on animal cruelty. Past time they were gone.

LOL-I just knew this thread would draw some hater of the nastiest most obscure variety out of the woodwork and VOILA!

Also Please Note they're not all Clydesdales there are Grey Shire horses as well as Belgians and Percherons and some people (like me) love them dearly.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Going by context, all trips. Source here. Different source in English.

Thanks. Both the first link (Wikipedia) and the second (chart at the bottom of page 4) show 'velo' as 5% for travel to work. For other types of journey bike use was lower - two or three percent.

The most recent census data for journey to work for Metro Vancouver is for 2016, and showed 2.3% bike to work. The 2.4 million people in the Cite de Paris are comparable to the 2.5 million in Metro Vancouver, and suggests as a region we have a long way to go to reach the City of Paris bike to work.

But for the City of Vancouver, where all the bike lanes have been built, (many of them since the 2016 census) it was 6.1% using a bike to travel to work.
That's up from 3.8% of trips to work by Vancouver residents made by bike in 2006. The 2021 census data will be affected by the pandemic, but it may still show a higher bike to work proportion; the City's Trip Diary survey collected annually by Mustel showed of those travelling to work, the bike share was 13% in 2020, as it had been in 2019 (Figure E3 page iv).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Thanks. Both the first link (Wikipedia) and the second (chart at the bottom of page 4) show 'velo' as 5% for travel to work. For other types of journey bike use was lower - two or three percent.

The most recent census data for journey to work for Metro Vancouver is for 2016, and showed 2.3% bike to work. The 2.4 million people in the Cite de Paris are comparable to the 2.5 million in Metro Vancouver, and suggests as a region we have a long way to go to reach the City of Paris bike to work.

But for the City of Vancouver, where all the bike lanes have been built, (many of them since the 2016 census) it was 6.1% using a bike to travel to work.
That's up from 3.8% of trips to work by Vancouver residents made by bike in 2006. The 2021 census data will be affected by the pandemic, but it may still show a higher bike to work proportion; the City's Trip Diary survey collected annually by Mustel showed of those travelling to work, the bike share was 13% in 2020, as it had been in 2019 (Figure E3 page iv).

Interesting. And Paris has a target of 20% bike mode share, so 15-20% is a more than probable end goal for the CoV.

That still doesn't really justify 1/5th of road users getting as much as half the road. I don't necessarily care about the drivers, but depending on the design, bus and foot traffic can suffer too.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Interesting. And Paris has a target of 20% bike mode share, so 15-20% is a more than probable end goal for the CoV.

That still doesn't really justify 1/5th of road users getting as much as half the road. I don't necessarily care about the drivers, but depending on the design, bus and foot traffic can suffer too.

You've said that before. They don't get half the road. At best they get the equivalent of one lane, on very few of the streets (and usually not streets with buses). If there were bike lanes on every street, you might have a point. As it stands, they make up (for the sake of argument) 10% of the commuters, and get less than 2% of the street space.

Paris cyclists will presumably get a boost when cars are banned from the City Centre in two years time.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Changing City

You've said that before. They don't get half the road. At best they get the equivalent of one lane, on very few of the streets (and usually not streets with buses). If there were bike lanes on every street, you might have a point. As it stands, they make up (for the sake of argument) 10% of the commuters, and get less than 2% of the street space.

Paris cyclists will presumably get a boost when cars are banned from the City Centre in two years time.

Again, I don't think you'd find many opponents of having bike infrastructure on most side streets. This argument started when the Stanley Park seawall was reduced from two to one; ditto Broadway, which is already losing two lanes to sidewalks (a good thing), and now may lose two of the remaining four to bike lanes (not really a good thing). That's half. Nanaimo and the 7 seem to be doing okay, but that stretch wasn't particularly crowded to begin with.

Given Paris' usual M.O., we can expect most of that new space to be taken up by pedestrian-only streets and bus lanes.