The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by casper

In the case of BC Rail, the province leased the lines to CN with the right to run passenger service in the future.

Yes... so, where is the passenger service?

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You sound even more ridiculous pointing to that subdivision when we are talking SWO. Point out a CN or CP mainline in Ontario that is not double tracked, and is not near capacity.



The 1990s in Canadian rail really was a dark time. We are reaping those times now. Hopefully we have learned from it and won't allow it to happen again.

You explicitly stated Every mainline in Canada should be double tracked. So no we weren’t just talking about SWO. Nice try though. Just FYI, none of CPs mainline in Ontario is anywhere near capacity. CNs Chatham sub also nowhere near capacity. Same goes for the Guelph sub.

[J81]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

I believe that the line was not CTC controlled but rather had ABS without the capability of running trains on the opposite track and no or few switches for changing which mainline track the train was running on. This is the same as the CP line between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg which is mostly single track with long sidings.

The strathroy Sub was definitely CTC for sure when Hunter ripped out most of the double track its was CTC. It was ABS years and years ago in the train order days though which goes back a long long ways. I dont think there is any ABS left on CNs system. Oddly enough, CP still has sections to this day including the Winchester sub between Smiths Falls and Montreal.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

You explicitly stated Every mainline in Canada should be double tracked. So no we weren’t just talking about SWO. Nice try though.

You are right, I do think all mainlines should be double tracked.However, the fact they aren't doesn't mean I expect them all to be done at the same time, or the quietest ones done first.

Originally Posted by J81

Just FYI, none of CPs mainline in Ontario is anywhere near capacity. CNs Chatham sub also nowhere near capacity. Same goes for the Guelph sub.

Give me the numbers. what are they at, and what is the capacity?

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

You are right, I do think all mainlines should be double tracked.However, the fact they aren't doesn't mean I expect them all to be done at the same time, or the quietest ones done first.



Give me the numbers. what are they at, and what is the capacity?

They dont all need to be double tracked. There is less double track now then there ever was in SWO. We run less trains now than 30 years ago although theyre 3 times as long in some cases. Hell even back during WWII i read somewhere that up to 60 trains a day moved between Moncton and Halifax and none of that track was double tracked except through Moncton and from Windsor jct into Halifax and one small section through Truro.

Theres one freight each way per day on the Chatham sub, 1 per day on the Guelph sub although i think that just runs on the metrolinx portion between silver and Kitchener. Last i heard there were 3 CP each way between Montreal and Toronto although that changes depending on traffic id say.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

They dont all need to be double tracked. There is less double track now then there ever was in SWO. We run less trains now than 30 years ago although theyre 3 times as long in some cases. Hell even back during WWII i read somewhere that up to 60 trains a day moved between Moncton and Halifax and none of that track was double tracked except through Moncton and from Windsor jct into Halifax and one small section through Truro.

Theres one freight each way per day on the Chatham sub, 1 per day on the Guelph sub although i think that just runs on the metrolinx portion between silver and Kitchener. Last i heard there were 3 CP each way between Montreal and Toronto although that changes depending on traffic id say.

Show me proof... Or accept you don't have any, and you may be wrong.

[casper]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Yes... so, where is the passenger service?

Good question.

There is a very small stretch near Darcy to service a first nations community that is only accessible by rail.

There is a group that keeps pushing for rail from Surrey to Chilliwack on BC Rail track. It is shocking they don't get more traction from government.

I would expect a North Vancouver to Squamish, Whistler service would do well with once a day train extending up to Prince George. However they have yet to bring that route back.

Given the federal government willingness to put money into VIA rail service in Central Canada, the BC government needs to push harder on VIA and the feds to operate these routes.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by casper

There is a group that keeps pushing for rail from Surrey to Chilliwack on BC Rail track. It is shocking they don't get more traction from government.

If it's the group/proposal that has been discussed on this site repeatedly in the past, IIRC it's not "shocking" because the existing rail line is not a direct route through the Valley and there are issues with sharing passenger and freight trains. I'll try to find the relevant discussions.



https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/south-fraser-community-rail-interurban-surrey-chilliwack

https://southfrasercommunityrail.ca/

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Show me proof... Or accept you don't have any, and you may be wrong.

Go sit next to the tracks yourself if you want to know that bad. You just want to argue as always.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

If it's the group/proposal that has been discussed on this site repeatedly in the past, IIRC it's not "shocking" because the existing rail line is not a direct route through the Valley and there are issues with sharing passenger and freight trains. I'll try to find the relevant discussions.



https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/south-fraser-community-rail-interurban-surrey-chilliwack

https://southfrasercommunityrail.ca/

Yes, that is the group.

I don't think the route is that bad. Yes, parallel to the highway would be more direct. However, it is still competitive to the highway especially with how things get backed up at busy times. The route hits all the major populations centers you would want to hit. It can be put into service for a fraction of the cost of a route that involves land acquisition, permitting and construction.

That rail route is not a a railway mainline.

The hydrogen powered trains is a bit out there. But not that out far out there.

[biguc]

They should absolutely do that. A few DMUs and ~15 sidings with platforms and Lower Mainland transportation service would become immeasurably better. If they do this and run WCE trains down to Abbotsford too, it could become a mini rail hub in its own right. Its downtown would almost certainly boom.

This is also a good start for running trains to White Rock and a modest first step towards running trains to Delta and Tsawwassen.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

Go sit next to the tracks yourself if you want to know that bad. You just want to argue as always.

I work on facts and evidence. If anyone makes a claim they should be able to back it up. It would be easy to show the traffic and what is considered to be at capacity.

Originally Posted by biguc

They should absolutely do that. A few DMUs and ~15 sidings with platforms and Lower Mainland transportation service would become immeasurably better. If they do this and run WCE trains down to Abbotsford too, it could become a mini rail hub in its own right. Its downtown would almost certainly boom.

This is also a good start for running trains to White Rock and a modest first step towards running trains to Delta and Tsawwassen.

They have not expanded the WCE since it's inception. I doubt they will do anything more with it. Translink wants to keep expanding the Skytrain.

[DirectionNorth]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I work on facts and evidence. If anyone makes a claim they should be able to back it up. It would be easy to show the traffic and what is considered to be at capacity.

You're the one who keeps claiming that it's at capacity

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by DirectionNorth

You're the one who keeps claiming that it's at capacity

So I'm not the only one who noticed that.

The burden of proof lies mainly with the one who makes the initial claim rather than with the one who challenges it. If person A claim that "X" without evidence and person B claims that "not X" without evidence, it seems funny to hear person A claim they work on facts and evidence while scolding person B for not providing any.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by DirectionNorth

You're the one who keeps claiming that it's at capacity

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

So I'm not the only one who noticed that.

The burden of proof lies mainly with the one who makes the initial claim rather than with the one who challenges it. If person A claim that "X" without evidence and person B claims that "not X" without evidence, it seems funny to hear person A claim they work on facts and evidence while scolding person B for not providing any.

Back a few pages, this was what I was asking for the proof of.

So, you may notice me asking for proof, and no one backs their claims up. So, when someone claims something and won't back it up, then either it isn't true, or they are saying it in some context they did not explain well.

Originally Posted by J81

Have you ever been on a GO train? Theres a reason why the daily GO train to London is empty. Nobody in their right mind wants to spend 5hrs on a GO train.

As far as VIA’s service in SWO goes, they would love to add a 5th daily Windsor train but CN wont let them. Its not uncommon to see 5 freight trains just between Aldershot and London and thats only 80 miles. VIA is at the mercy of CN and metrolinx.

[J81]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Back a few pages, this was what I was asking for the proof of.

So, you may notice me asking for proof, and no one backs their claims up. So, when someone claims something and won't back it up, then either it isn't true, or they are saying it in some context they did not explain well.

Man you’re insufferable lol. You just want to continue to argue with someone that clearly knows more on the subject than you do. You remind me of my sister. I spend most of my week up and down the rails in SWO. Im telling u first hand what i see everyday out there to paint a picture for you. But because it doesnt fit your narrative you have to play this show me proof garbage. You wont find a train schedule anywhere on CN or CPs website. You also wont find anything related to mainline capacity. So what would satisfy your annoying insistence of proof? We’re all curious.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by J81

Man you’re insufferable lol. You just want to continue to argue with someone that clearly knows more on the subject than you do. You remind me of my sister. I spend most of my week up and down the rails in SWO. Im telling u first hand what i see everyday out there to paint a picture for you. But because it doesnt fit your narrative you have to play this show me proof garbage. You wont find a train schedule anywhere on CN or CPs website. You also wont find anything related to mainline capacity. So what would satisfy your annoying insistence of proof? We’re all curious.

I saw it got cold so climate change is fake.
I was outside at night and didn't get a sun burn, so that must be fake.

Sounds silly, right?

Hard numbers are facts.

"I saw" is not a fact.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by J81

Man you’re insufferable lol. You just want to continue to argue with someone that clearly knows more on the subject than you do. You remind me of my sister. I spend most of my week up and down the rails in SWO. Im telling u first hand what i see everyday out there to paint a picture for you. But because it doesnt fit your narrative you have to play this show me proof garbage. You wont find a train schedule anywhere on CN or CPs website. You also wont find anything related to mainline capacity. So what would satisfy your annoying insistence of proof? We’re all curious.

Please keep me posting. There's plenty of us that enjoy learning from professionals in the field.

And yeah. It's really hard to discuss some of this stuff without sharing proprietary data.

[nname]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

They have not expanded the WCE since it's inception. I doubt they will do anything more with it.

Nothing they can do about it when they did not own the track, and CP does not want to lease out more track time to run the extra train. There is also no space to build extra tracks for the most part of the line.

[nname]

Originally Posted by biguc

They should absolutely do that. A few DMUs and ~15 sidings with platforms and Lower Mainland transportation service would become immeasurably better. If they do this and run WCE trains down to Abbotsford too, it could become a mini rail hub in its own right. Its downtown would almost certainly boom.

They already did a study back in 2006 for Scott Road to Langley, and the conclusion? It was not nearly as cheap as most people thought:
https://www.translink.ca/-/media/transli...memorandum_phase_1/sofatp07phase1tm1.pdf

So the estimate for EMU running every 15min was about 700M. Back in that time, the estimate for SkyTrain to Langley was slightly above 1 billion I believe.