Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Cattle cars? To where exactly?

Well where did the Germans send the Jews in WWII, who had done absolutely nothing wrong? Unlike the Jews, a small segment of the homeless population have a long history of anti-social behavior but as long as people cling to this ridiculous notion that everyone wants to change and improve (and we can help them do it), we will put up with their lawlessness.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Gave you two studies you asked for, you decided that academic achievement and social status didn't meet your definition of "faring better." Oh well

You either missed my post or reading comprehension isn't your strength because I explained thoroughly and clearly why your two studies didn't address the topic so you might want to go back and read what I wrote although i'm sure you won't

Also, that ABC News article about Obama's drug use made no mention of cocaine, only his pot and alcohol use and the author doesn't name one person connected to Obama unlike the NY Times article I posted that named a number of people that knew "Barry" back then and what he was really like so I would say the NY Times article I posted about Obama's drug use growing up is far more credible than yours although understandably, you couldn't read it. I tried posting it but now i'm shut out too, man they're stingy with their free articles!

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Reading comprehension clearly isn't your strength because I explained thoroughly and clearly why your two studies didn't address the topic so you might want to go back and read what I wrote although i'm sure you won't

Also, that ABC News article about Obama's drug use made no mention of cocaine, only his pot and alcohol use and the author doesn't name one person connected to Obama unlike the NY Times article I posted that named a number of people that knew "Barry" back then and what he was really like so I would say the NY Times article I posted about Obama's drug use growing up is far more credible than yours

You said a study "that shows children raised by single-parents fare better." I gave you two studies that show children in stable single parent familes - especially daughters with single dads - have slightly more academic success and get better jobs, which most people would count as "faring better."

How about you show me one where single-parent kids are worse off, so I can explain why that one doesn't work? The closest you'll find is that 1.2% more 1P kids are users than 2P kids, which is hardly any more conclusive; when adjusted for income and resources, there's absolutely no difference at all. If a single-parent kid can be POTUS, it's hardly an impediment either.

Fair enough. And yet Barack was a user who turned his life around instead of becoming an antisocial headcase... because he had a stable family and a home.

[Phil McAvity]

Aight

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/power-two-parent-home-not-myth

https://ifstudies.org/blog/when-it-comes-to-child-well-being-is-one-parent-the-same-as-two

https://www.deseret.com/2021/6/17/225382...out-of-jail-brookings-aei-family-studies

[jollyburger]

He's training for UFC?

Vancouver Police are appealing for witnesses to a seemingly random assault that is alleged to have been committed on a 15-year-boy, and have released video of the incident with hopes that people will come forward.

“Although we have arrested a suspect in this case, we are still gathering evidence,” says Constable Tania Visintin. “We are particularly interested in speaking to people who saw the suspect immediately before or after the alleged assault, or overheard any interaction the suspect had with the victim or other people.”

The 15-year-old victim was walking in Pacific Centre Mall around 11:45 a.m. on May 8 when a man approached him from behind and leg-swept him to the ground. The alleged suspect fled after the assault, but was followed by mall security.

The teen did not suffer serious physical injuries.

VPD patrol officers were called immediately and quickly located the suspect.

Faisal Abubaker, 25, has been charged with assault and was released from custody until his next court appearance.

https://vpd.ca/news/2022/05/13/vpd-seeks-for-witnesses-after-teen-assaulted-in-mall/

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Aight

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/power-two-parent-home-not-myth

https://ifstudies.org/blog/when-it-comes-to-child-well-being-is-one-parent-the-same-as-two

https://www.deseret.com/2021/6/17/225382...out-of-jail-brookings-aei-family-studies

#1 and #3 have nothing to do with crime, drug use or child success, and #2 is from the editor of the Institute for Family Studies blog. If we’re going to bring in opinion pieces, then let’s do this.

#3 also highlights the flaws in the data.

Instead, she said differences in resources largely explain the relationship between family structure and outcomes for Black youths. “If this is the case, then what deserves policy attention is not black families’ deviation from the two-parent family model but rather structural barriers such as housing segregation and employment discrimination that produce and maintain racialized inequalities in family life.”

Sure, 1P families struggle more, but the kids can turn out better or worse. Despite the amount of single parents in Canada increasing since at least the Seventies, the DTES has only become a serious problem in the last ten years... coincidentally, when the cost of housing and number of unsheltered homeless went up.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

#1 and #3 have nothing to do with crime, drug use or child success, and #2 is from the editor of the Institute for Family Studies blog. If we’re going to bring in opinion pieces, then let’s do this.

#3 also highlights the flaws in the data.


Sure, 1P families struggle more, but the kids can turn out better or worse. Despite the amount of single parents in Canada increasing since at least the Seventies, the DTES has only become a serious problem in the last ten years... coincidentally, when the cost of housing and number of unsheltered homeless went up.

"Sure, 1P families struggle more" Thank you for finally conceding the point. One parent families do struggle more, thus children from single parents generally fare worse in life. That's been my point from the beginning

I lived in the DTES in 1992-1993 and it was bad back then too so you're wrong to say the DTES has only become a serious problem in the last 10 years, the opioid epidemic may have made it worse but back then it wasn't exactly shangri-la either. The DTES has been a serious problem for decades. I experienced more crime in one year living in the DTES than I have of living in Victoria for decades

Since you obviously think housing is the problem i'm still waiting for you to explain how you plan to house those that aren't, other than vague references to giving them with money and housing

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

"Sure, 1P families struggle more" Thank you for finally conceding the point. One parent families do struggle more, thus children from single parents generally fare worse in life. That's been my point from the beginning

I lived in the DTES in 1992-1993 and it was bad back then too so you're wrong to say the DTES has only become a serious problem in the last 10 years, the opioid epidemic may have made it worse but back then it wasn't exactly shangri-la either. The DTES has been a serious problem for decades. I experienced more crime in one year living in the DTES than I have of living in Victoria for decades

Since you obviously think housing is the problem i'm still waiting for you to explain how you plan to house those that aren't, other than vague references to giving them with money and housing

Haven't conceded jack - “struggle more” and “fare worse in life” are very different things. Too many examples of people with 1P families that did something with their lives. And if you’re telling me that most of the DTES problem cases aren’t from 2P homes, I’m going to laugh in your face.

Must’ve missed the retrospective about all the tent cities here back in '93. Victoria's housing crunch is bad, but nothing compared to Vancouver's.

Aren’t... what? Problem cases? Addicts? Keep building modular housing. If you could manage to get yourself two jobs while in a shelter, there’s not much reason why others can’t get one.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Victoria's housing crunch is bad, but nothing compared to Vancouver's.

There are fewer homeless in Victoria than in Vancouver. But the rate of homelessness is much higher than here. In Greater Vancouver 1 in 727 was homeless in 2020. In Greater Victoria it was 1 in 261. (Even the City of Vancouver was better than Greater Victoria - it was 1 in 316).

Similarly, (and perhaps coincidentally) the recent data on deaths from illicit drugs showed 80 per 100,000 people in the City of Vancouver died of an overdose in 2021, but 138 per 100,000 in the City of Victoria.

It doesn't look as if the proportion of single parent families has a statistical relationship to the differences in homelessness and drug overdoses: in 2016 14.5% of families were lone-parent families in Greater Victoria, and 15.4% in Greater Vancouver. (It was 15.9% of families in the City of Vancouver).

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Haven't conceded jack - “struggle more” and “fare worse in life” are very different things. Too many examples of people with 1P families that did something with their lives. And if you’re telling me that most of the DTES problem cases aren’t from 2P homes, I’m going to laugh in your face.

Must’ve missed the retrospective about all the tent cities here back in '93. Victoria's housing crunch is bad, but nothing compared to Vancouver's.

Aren’t... what? Problem cases? Addicts? Keep building modular housing. If you could manage to get yourself two jobs while in a shelter, there’s not much reason why others can’t get one.

I didn't think I needed to add.....aren't "housed" at the end of that sentence because I was obviously talking about being housed but I clearly can't take anything for granted with you. So if you think modular housing will solve problems in the DTES, where will the money come from to build them?

I expect you would argue that the old cliche of fruit not falling far from the tree is wrong too but it stands to reason that if single parent families struggle more, as should their kids as single parent families simply have less of everything (money, love, time, attention, resources) to offer their kids. What I don't understand is why you argue so adamantly that single parent families are just as good as two parent families? I defend traditional families because they're proven to be better at raising kids yet you're an apologist for single parent families and i'd like to know why

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

So if you think modular housing will solve problems in the DTES, where will the money come from to build them

You will pay for it one way or another (if you pay any taxes to the Province). As was noted with this endlessly circular argument on this thread in 2018, this study published in 2017 showed that the average cost that taxpayers spend on support for each homeless person with mental illness is over $53,000 a year. No doubt that's more in 2022. It's actually cheaper to provide stable, secure housing for the homeless population than it is to pick up the far greater tab for all the emergency police, fire and paramedic services that they end up costing us all if they're in temporary shelters or on the street.

[jollyburger]

Sounds like Victoria isn't that much better

VicPD said in a statement large groups of youth from ­surrounding municipalities have begun coming into downtown on Friday and Saturday nights to consume alcohol and drugs.

Some nights, police said there have been 150 youth in groups of various sizes.

VicPD Patrol and ­Community Services Division officers have been responding to more than two dozen calls for violent offences, including assaults with weapons, attacks on the elderly and unhoused community and, in one case, the swarming of a police officer.

There have also been ­numerous reports of mischief, vandalism and property damage, as well as open consumption of alcohol and drugs by underage youth creating “medical­ ­incidents.”

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/police-dealing-with-surge-of-youth-crime-downtown-5363970

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Sounds like Victoria isn't that much better



https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/police-dealing-with-surge-of-youth-crime-downtown-5363970

I was surprised to read that recently because this was the first i've heard of it here but it obviously doesn't bode well. I was eating at the downtown McDonalds recently on a saturday night and was surprised to see teens openly drinking in public because when we were that age we kept that shit on the down low

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

I didn't think I needed to add.....aren't "housed" at the end of that sentence because I was obviously talking about being housed but I clearly can't take anything for granted with you. So if you think modular housing will solve problems in the DTES, where will the money come from to build them?

I expect you would argue that the old cliche of fruit not falling far from the tree is wrong too but it stands to reason that if single parent families struggle more, as should their kids as single parent families simply have less of everything (money, love, time, attention, resources) to offer their kids. What I don't understand is why you argue so adamantly that single parent families are just as good as two parent families? I defend traditional families because they're proven to be better at raising kids yet you're an apologist for single parent families and i'd like to know why

Heh, you can’t take anything for granted? The solution to “housing those that aren’t housed” is so obvious that it shouldn’t even need answering... and since we’ve already built hundreds of units for the homeless and about-to-be-homeless across the city in the last few years, with hundreds more on the way, it's evident the funding is covered. As mentioned, it’s also still cheaper than letting them rot on the streets.

Because when adjusted for other factors, there’s no meaningful difference in outcome? That despite all “reason,” most single-parent kids grow up to be productive citizens? It’s only ever used as part of a ridiculously cliche “traditional family values” agenda, but the rest of the forum's already made you walk back the rest of that.
All you’d have to do to settle the argument is find a study that shows more 1P kids end up homeless and violent in the DTES than 2P kids. We both know that such a study doesn’t exist, because it would be nonsense.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

I was surprised to read that recently because this was the first i've heard of it here but it obviously doesn't bode well. I was eating at the downtown McDonalds recently on a saturday night and was surprised to see teens openly drinking in public because when we were that age we kept that shit on the down low

Perhaps your memory is clouded by time, but I remember some pretty messy situations in McDonalds when I was a teen.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Heh, you can’t take anything for granted? The solution to “housing those that aren’t housed” is so obvious that it shouldn’t even need answering... and since we’ve already built hundreds of units for the homeless and about-to-be-homeless across the city in the last few years, with hundreds more on the way, it's evident the funding is covered. As mentioned, it’s also still cheaper than letting them rot on the streets.

Because when adjusted for other factors, there’s no meaningful difference in outcome? That despite all “reason,” most single-parent kids grow up to be productive citizens? It’s only ever used as part of a ridiculously cliche “traditional family values” agenda, but the rest of the forum's already made you walk back the rest of that.
All you’d have to do to settle the argument is find a study that shows more 1P kids end up homeless and violent in the DTES than 2P kids. We both know that such a study doesn’t exist, because it would be nonsense.

So you think after my providing sound reasons and three studies showing it, it's still bullshit that single parents struggle more thus children from them are apt to struggle more?

You also haven't explained why you're an apologist for single parents

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

You also haven't explained why you're an apologist for single parents

Apologist for single parents? What are you even talking about?

It would be great if everybody lived in Leave it to Beaver families and there was no such thing as addicting and depression. But we have to live in the real world.

Church is not the answer.

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Church is not the answer.

Really? Because billions of people disagree, ~85% of the world's population identify with a religion. Ironically i'm not one of them

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Really? Because billions of people disagree, ~85% of the world's population identify with a religion. Ironically i'm not one of them

Why does that make it right?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And that help is more than enough for the 80% that aren’t problem cases. The other 20% need other measures.



Hey, you’re the one moving the goalposts, go ahead. And it’s “capiche.”

Because they can't possibly die in a cold-turkey shelter, which is somehow open when all the others are closed in this scenario? We've got safe injection sites and a detox centre (and a future replacement centre) for junkies to clean themselves up.

Clean themselves up? I see more joining the ranks than getting clean. Don't believe in your own lies.