Gultch/CIM Group Development

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by ThrashATL

Really getting downsized and utilitarian. It's no LA Live. JMO.

The future blocks not announced are just placeholders.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by 3yonce

I think this is practically the same as the last plan but with three of the now-designed buildings switched in.

Exactly. I believe when it comes to building each structure, they will turn out unique, and we have found the two structures close to MB Stadium actually turned out larger than originally planned. I believe the main 'mall' area will be lower footprint buildings, like Atlantic Station, to give the area a more human scale feel, but the perimeter of the property appears to be open to larger structures. I think this will turn out great, however, it may be 20 years before it is all built out (Don't remember what timelines exist on their tax abatement; that may encourage faster development. Interest rates won't help development speed right now)

[bryantm3]

I know I'm being a Negative Nancy but I kind of hope the project fills in everything south of MLK and west of the rail line and then stalls...because part of me is still hoping for the MMPT. I would also like to see the big "A" come back- the one formed by the rail lines that's partially obscured by the CNN center and its parking deck. Even if it's just a painted line on the ground that shows you where the rail line, the eastern continental divide (and by extension the proclamation line of 1763) cuts through the gulch.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

I know I'm being a Negative Nancy but I kind of hope the project fills in everything south of MLK and west of the rail line and then stalls...because part of me is still hoping for the MMPT. I would also like to see the big "A" come back- the one formed by the rail lines that's partially obscured by the CNN center and its parking deck. Even if it's just a painted line on the ground that shows you where the rail line, the eastern continental divide (and by extension the proclamation line of 1763) cuts through the gulch.

I've been a proponent of MMPT for decades, but a lot has happened which makes the original vision outdated. Among other things:

• Greyhound has started a new station at Garnett.
• There's the new commuter bus station at GWCC
• Abandonment of the Northeast BeltLine means that Amtrak could never serve a downtown MMPT because the trains would have no way to get back to the main line to Gainesville. Unlike European systems, Amtrak will not double back on track to serve a dead-end line.

I believe there is still space for commuter rail platforms in the CIM plan and adding it would be great. However, I have little faith that we'll ever see it due to track-share issues (i.e. see Clayton County fiasco) and lack of State support.

[bryantm3]

Could Amtrak route through another rail line somewhere east of Atlanta- maybe Athens?

In regards to the new greyhound and commuter bus stations, having those separate could maybe help narrow the scope of the project and make it more likely to be completed (i.e.: incorporating amtrak and commuter rail only). The whole bus terminal aspect that had buses going up to the second floor was really over-the-top, especially with Five Points station next door already having bus and rail service.

[Julien]

Originally Posted by Terminus

....Unlike European systems, Amtrak will not double back on track to serve a dead-end line.....

Actually Amtrak does this in Tampa. Of course it is a lot shorter backtrack than would be needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMZm4iG1v3g

[bryantm3]

Provided they put enough extra tracks down there, couldn't they reverse the train with a 3 point turn in the gulch? When it comes south, run it east past the zero mile point, switch the tracks, back it up until trinity, then it's facing north ready to go. The Tampa one requires backing up two miles, way further than that.

[GlobalResNativAtlant]

delete

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

Provided they put enough extra tracks down there, couldn't they reverse the train with a 3 point turn in the gulch? When it comes south, run it east past the zero mile point, switch the tracks, back it up until trinity, then it's facing north ready to go. The Tampa one requires backing up two miles, way further than that.

That’s an end of line, not a through line. Big difference, especially because the ATL line is a heavy freight corridor.

It’s certainly technically possible to serve the Gulch but not without adding delay to the Crescent.

[montydawg]

Originally Posted by Terminus

That’s an end of line, not a through line. Big difference, especially because the ATL line is a heavy freight corridor.

It’s certainly technically possible to serve the Gulch but not without adding delay to the Crescent.

The Lenox and Doraville stations are such easy spots for an Amtrak station, it seems an obvious choice to me. Commuter rail, if it ever happens, could easily tie in with the same station. It would be similar to back bay station in Boston. Of course if we ever get Amtrak to savannah, the trains could then stop at the gultch. I had previously spoken to a Perkins and will architect about this, and they said the rail corridor right of way in the gultch had room for rail platforms in the CIM plan. Given Philadelphia has an extensive commuter rail system and their main downtown station (suburban station) has two platforms and 4 tracks, it is conceivable such a setup would serve atlanta commuter rail.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by montydawg

The Lenox and Doraville stations are such easy spots for an Amtrak station, it seems an obvious choice to me. Commuter rail, if it ever happens, could easily tie in with the same station. It would be similar to back bay station in Boston. Of course if we ever get Amtrak to savannah, the trains could then stop at the gultch. I had previously spoken to a Perkins and will architect about this, and they said the rail corridor right of way in the gultch had room for rail platforms in the CIM plan. Given Philadelphia has an extensive commuter rail system and their main downtown station (suburban station) has two platforms and 4 tracks, it is conceivable such a setup would serve atlanta commuter rail.

Speaking of which, have you seen the massive mixed use project they've built atop the station? It's pretty damn impressive.

[daharris80]

Does Councilman Dozier read this page? Ironically he just introduced a resolution on Amtrak moving to the Gulch:

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/an...ee-it-happen/UMODBYNBRVERTLVWBUXGEVJYQE/

[smArTaLlone]

In a Shopping Center Business article Brian McGowan says that they are currently in negotiations with a Mexican restaurant, a coffee shop, and a gym for space at The Canyon.

They also made a bold statement that in 50 years, people will recognize the airport, The Beltline, and Centennial Yards as the three developments with the biggest impact on Atlanta.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

In a Shopping Center Business article Brian McGowan says that they are currently in negotiations with a Mexican restaurant, a coffee shop, and a gym for space at The Canyon.

They also made a bold statement that in 50 years, people will recognize the airport, The Beltline, and Centennial Yards as the three developments with the biggest impact on Atlanta.

I hope that prediction pans out. This project and Newport's Hotel Row really have the potential to transform Downtown.

[smArTaLlone]

[SAV]

Meh....I hope this project comes to fruition and is fully built out. But I just feel like they had the opportunity to add some nice size (maybe 4-10 30-40 story towers) and density to the area. They should have went bigger. Like, "make an imprint on the skyline" bigger. It's in the center of Downtown with multiple Marta stations around. AND with the market the way it is now those apartments would have filled up.

But instead we're getting something that looks like it belongs on Memorial Drive........

Still hope it gets completed though!

[RocketSurgeon]

There isn't enough demand for housing in Downtown for anything skyline changing to be built all at once. It'll happen someday, but it'll need some modest developments to get it there. As of today, there isn't even a grocery store. It's a tough sell compared to Midtown. Really tough.

I think the 20s will be very kind to Downtown and set a good foundation, but the truly large scale projects won't come until the 30s when the market has matured.

[Martinman]

Originally Posted by SAV

Meh....I hope this project comes to fruition and is fully built out. But I just feel like they had the opportunity to add some nice size (maybe 4-10 30-40 story towers) and density to the area. They should have went bigger. Like, "make an imprint on the skyline" bigger. It's in the center of Downtown with multiple Marta stations around. AND with the market the way it is now those apartments would have filled up.

But instead we're getting something that looks like it belongs on Memorial Drive........

Still hope it gets completed though!

This is one instance where I couldn't care less about skyline changing. There will be ample opportunities for that if CY is successful. For me, success means a dense vibrant walkable district where people want to be. When people visit the kind of place I hope it will be, no one ever wishes the buildings were taller.

I would add that your comment is focused on one building when the first phase will also include hotel and residential tower around 20 stories.

On another note the rendering seems to suggest some sort of development between this new apartment building and the Elliott Street apartments. There is a great opportunity for Newport's Mitchell Street development to build some synergy with this. Very exciting.

[L41A]

I worked on Mitchell Street when Bank of America/NationsBank/C&S had major operations there. Norfolk Southern also had major operations there also.

I loved Mitchell Street. It was very vibrant with the large sidewalks lined with restaurants, boutiques, cleaners, etc. It was a livable and Kroger had a small store in walking distance near City Hall plus other nearby restaurants. Three (3) MARTA stations on different lines within easy walking distrance. I see potential of the area with the new developments. I just hope it builds upon the infrastructure that already there (222 Mitchell).

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Martinman

This is one instance where I couldn't care less about skyline changing. There will be ample opportunities for that if CY is successful. For me, success means a dense vibrant walkable district where people want to be. When people visit the kind of place I hope it will be, no one ever wishes the buildings were taller.

I would add that your comment is focused on one building when the first phase will also include hotel and residential tower around 20 stories.

Agreed. There's little absolute relationship between height and density - especially when the height is derived from building on less of the lot or through parking. Paris is extremely dense and almost everything is six floors and built lot-line to lot-line.

I think keeping the scale of Castleberry Hill/NS makes sense for adjoining buildings. It's good planning to start modestly and then building the key sites later on, when the market is stronger.