Tucson Development Thread

[ZonaRealtor2021]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

I screenshot some of the other ones but Ill upload later

Andrew thank you!!
I don’t know how to upload yet Lmao
If you could show folks the renderings of the El presidio / Transamerica building project that would be great - It looks pretty cool if they can actually pull it all together and get it done! Jennie and Fletcher are really pushing hard for it!

@AZ71 common brotha be positive at the 100th time at bat something gotta hit right.!?! lol I won’t hold my breath either for the apartments portion of the project but at least these folks (Scott Stiteler) have gotten a couple things done so maybe. Fingers crossed!!!!!!

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by ZonaRealtor2021

Andrew thank you!!
I don’t know how to upload yet Lmao
If you could show folks the renderings of the El presidio / Transamerica building project that would be great - It looks pretty cool if they can actually pull it all together and get it done! Jennie and Fletcher are really pushing hard for it!

@AZ71 common brotha be positive at the 100th time at bat something gotta hit right.!?! lol I won’t hold my breath either for the apartments portion of the project but at least these folks (Scott Stiteler) have gotten a couple things done so maybe. Fingers crossed!!!!!!

You know those pickleball courts are gonna be built for sure! LOL
But you're right. Stiteler has a better track record than say the Dabdoubs and Peach Properties!

I'm interested in this El Presidio/Transamerica thing. Is it a bldg?

Are you all sure The Opus on 4th is back on? I heard it was off. I see on the permits on the site for the location is says "Utility potholing for design of shoring for new underground parking garage". So is it the new building or are they just building a new parking garage there instead I wonder?

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by AZ71

You know those pickleball courts are gonna be built for sure! LOL
But you're right. Stiteler has a better track record than say the Dabdoubs and Peach Properties!

I'm interested in this El Presidio/Transamerica thing. Is it a bldg?

Are you all sure The Opus on 4th is back on? I heard it was off. I see on the permits on the site for the location is says "Utility potholing for design of shoring for new underground parking garage". So is it the new building or are they just building a new parking garage there instead I wonder?

I believe it is more a street landscape improvement thing. I'm not sure if OPUS development is back on. I sent an inquiry to them to see if I can get an answer.

[andrewsaturn]

Here they are:

The first pic shows two pocket parks on the corners of the street.

[juan.x.ito]

I know this is really off topic, but does anyone know if there's any update on the Foothills Mall? I was so sad to see it die down, and amc is my favorite movie theater in tucson... i wonder if bourn still has big plans

[crzyabe]

I am just learning about this now, but it appears that NorGen has paid a settlement for not developing the "Arena Site" and has removed their dibs to develop it. The site is back on the market for another potential investor.

NorGen paid a $1.3million settlement and still owns the lot between the arena site and the TCC in which they will probably leave their tent skeleton up year-round.

https://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/020722-Rio-Nuevo_4PP.pdf

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by crzyabe

I am just learning about this now, but it appears that NorGen has paid a settlement for not developing the "Arena Site" and has removed their dibs to develop it. The site is back on the market for another potential investor.

NorGen paid a $1.3million settlement and still owns the lot between the arena site and the TCC in which they will probably leave their tent skeleton up year-round.

https://rionuevo.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/020722-Rio-Nuevo_4PP.pdf

That is interesting. I've heard nothing about this. That pdf link is kind of vague and still depends if Nor-Gen paid the $1.3M settlement I guess. I do hope its true and we can move on with finding new developers for the remaining land. But the city still lists the parcels as owned by Nor-Gen. So I'm not sure what is going on. What a cursed piece of property. I do hope Rio Nuevo learned their lesson and if they put out an RFP on that land that they choose someone who can perform and close on it to really develop it. I just hope its something grand and not another Hampton Inn.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by AZ71

That is interesting. I've heard nothing about this. That pdf link is kind of vague and still depends if Nor-Gen paid the $1.3M settlement I guess. I do hope its true and we can move on with finding new developers for the remaining land. But the city still lists the parcels as owned by Nor-Gen. So I'm not sure what is going on. What a cursed piece of property. I do hope Rio Nuevo learned their lesson and if they put out an RFP on that land that they choose someone who can perform and close on it to really develop it. I just hope its something grand and not another Hampton Inn.

If they can't come up with a reasonable 15k+ A-grade arena concept, forget it. Insane how a metro of 1.1M+ can't replace a crappy old 9k arena after 20+ years. Tucson, get your friggin act together...

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

If they can't come up with a reasonable 15k+ A-grade arena concept, forget it. Insane how a metro of 1.1M+ can't replace a crappy old 9k arena after 20+ years. Tucson, get your friggin act together...

Agreed. Downtowns are changing from business centers to entertainment districts. People want to go downtown for dinner and a show/game/movie/club. They need to stop looking for businesses and cater to entertainment. A Staples-like arena is a must for downtown. Could be used for sports, concerts, etc). But with the tent land not being available..I'm not sure something of that magnitude could be built on the land that is left. I dont trust Rio Nuevo to make the right decision and search out the right people to build such a facility.

[ZonaRealtor2021]

Originally Posted by AZ71

That is interesting. I've heard nothing about this. That pdf link is kind of vague and still depends if Nor-Gen paid the $1.3M settlement I guess. I do hope its true and we can move on with finding new developers for the remaining land. But the city still lists the parcels as owned by Nor-Gen. So I'm not sure what is going on. What a cursed piece of property. I do hope Rio Nuevo learned their lesson and if they put out an RFP on that land that they choose someone who can perform and close on it to really develop it. I just hope its something grand and not another Hampton Inn.

It’s insane to me that after all this time & years wasted when DT was booming before COVID this is all NorGen is going to have to pay up!

Seems like he’s just as sleazy as HSL and company

As far as getting a staples type arena or entertainment complex- I would have a better chance of dating the winner of the $473 million dollar power ball winner up in Phoenix.

It’s going to sit as a dirt lot until the extension of the RN district runs out and then maybe we will get another gym show tent put back up by NorGen.

This city needs another business friendly mayor and a few council members that still hold Tucson‘s DNA at heart to really push for the downtown to expand to its potential.

I have mentioned my opinions before that Fletcher and the gang don’t have what it takes to take the downtown to the next level!

It really makes me bummed out on all the potential we have and completely wasted it away!!

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by ZonaRealtor2021

It’s insane to me that after all this time & years wasted when DT was booming before COVID this is all NorGen is going to have to pay up!

Seems like he’s just as sleazy as HSL and company

As far as getting a staples type arena or entertainment complex- I would have a better chance of dating the winner of the $473 million dollar power ball winner up in Phoenix.

It’s going to sit as a dirt lot until the extension of the RN district runs out and then maybe we will get another gym show tent put back up by NorGen.

This city needs another business friendly mayor and a few council members that still hold Tucson‘s DNA at heart to really push for the downtown to expand to its potential.

I have mentioned my opinions before that Fletcher and the gang don’t have what it takes to take the downtown to the next level!

It really makes me bummed out on all the potential we have and completely wasted it away!!

Well the funny thing is when they chose Nor-Gen it was when Rio was a bit more corrupt with its members. In fact the final two proposals was Nor-Gen and Peach Properties. They ended up going with Nor-Gen and Peach sued or something. Regardless..the deal was they had to build $10M worth of construction by 2020 or pay RN a $2M fee. So its been in court for 2 years and I'm guessing RN gets that $1.3M payout with the deal Nor-Gen sells the land. They're all corrupt.

About the arena idea, I've heard both Rio Nuevo and the city decided to back the growth of Kino South and that arena idea there instead. I think its ridiculous. They're losing so much money with hotel stays and restaurants and downtown. And the streetcar for mass transportation of people to and from. There is no good planning in this city.

I guess the next best thing left is some kind of shopping / residential complex. Maybe a place for restaurants/bars/shopping/museums/movie theatre maybe, etc and residential on top of it all. I mean what else can they build? TCC has no restaurants around there for people to easily walk to. La Placita was the right idea...but it was just ugly. They should have built a modern facility outdoor retail type concept. I'm not suren

Anyone else have any ideas (other than an arena) that could benefit and amp up our downtown? That dirt lot is so ugly looking at it from I-10. That tent should be banned. The city should secretly outlaw such structures to stick it to Nor-Gen. But then they'd take the Gem & Mineral Show to Scottsdale like they've been threatening for years. That'd be a big loss for Tucson.

[bthom3000]

Originally Posted by ZonaRealtor2021

It’s insane to me that after all this time & years wasted when DT was booming before COVID this is all NorGen is going to have to pay up!

Seems like he’s just as sleazy as HSL and company

As far as getting a staples type arena or entertainment complex- I would have a better chance of dating the winner of the $473 million dollar power ball winner up in Phoenix.

It’s going to sit as a dirt lot until the extension of the RN district runs out and then maybe we will get another gym show tent put back up by NorGen.

This city needs another business friendly mayor and a few council members that still hold Tucson‘s DNA at heart to really push for the downtown to expand to its potential.

I have mentioned my opinions before that Fletcher and the gang don’t have what it takes to take the downtown to the next level!

It really makes me bummed out on all the potential we have and completely wasted it away!!

I’ve been saying this for years to sell the land to one of the tribes around here and let them develop a hotel,casino, arena, convention complex. It could be done with almost no risk to the tax payer and really drive a booming downtown!!!!! That would probably be the only way to get a decent size arena. If left to the idiots who run this town they’d probably only allow a 5k seat arena and only if it comes with low income seating.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by bthom3000

I’ve been saying this for years to sell the land to one of the tribes around here and let them develop a hotel,casino, arena, convention complex. It could be done with almost no risk to the tax payer and really drive a booming downtown!!!!! That would probably be the only way to get a decent size arena. If left to the idiots who run this town they’d probably only allow a 5k seat arena and only if it comes with low income seating.

Because it makes sense, and because it would actually work,.....it will never happen !

[combusean]

The City isn't going to give up choice land downtown to a tribe along with the sales and property taxes, plus something like that would have to be approved by the Federal government.

A brand new, 15k-seat arena is a non-starter without an anchor tenant and Phoenix being only 90 miles away for large shows. San Diego's arena isn't even that big and it's almost sixty years old and the population is 3x the size of Pima County.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by combusean

The City isn't going to give up choice land downtown to a tribe along with the sales and property taxes, plus something like that would have to be approved by the Federal government.

A brand new, 15k-seat arena is a non-starter without an anchor tenant and Phoenix being only 90 miles away for large shows. San Diego's arena isn't even that big and it's almost sixty years old and the population is 3x the size of Pima County.

The point is - Tucson needs to (pardon the pun) take a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. Tucson is really, really falling behind and doing nothing to create any kind of attraction quality to DT. Kino is a bad idea. Who the hell wants to spend time in South Tucson recreationally? If City of Tucson wants to pull in revenue it needs to go (for Tucson) big: build a 12,500 (min) seat arena that is mostly for concerts and exhibition and build a DT baseball stadium for whatever farm team. They need to get people to convene nightly between UofA and DT. Little bistros/coffee shops and boutique hotels are NOT enough. And put in some kind of attraction - like an observation tower at 500 feet for the terrific views of the surrounding mountains. Damn, do something...or continue to die. And Tucson is dying...

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

The point is - Tucson needs to (pardon the pun) take a 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵. Tucson is really, really falling behind and doing nothing to create any kind of attraction quality to DT. Kino is a bad idea. Who the hell wants to spend time in South Tucson recreationally? If City of Tucson wants to pull in revenue it needs to go (for Tucson) big: build a 12,500 (min) seat arena that is mostly for concerts and exhibition and build a DT baseball stadium for whatever farm team. They need to get people to convene nightly between UofA and DT. Little bistros/coffee shops and boutique hotels are NOT enough. And put in some kind of attraction - like an observation tower at 500 feet for the terrific views of the surrounding mountains. Damn, do something...or continue to die. And Tucson is dying...

I liked the original idea whey they threw around the idea of a Gem & Mineral Museum and then an aquatic museum. Of course city council and Rio Nuevo bawked at the idea. Now the Gem museum is in the old Pima County Courthouse and the aquarium was snagged by Scottsdale and is OdySea. Tucson just has no vision. Even if they dont want to build any kind of arena...I think the best we can hope for is like an outdoor shopping plaza of restaurants, bars, museum, hotel and residnetial towers. I'd love a small arena but its just not going to happen. My other idea is with the potential tax incentive bill passing...Tucson is gonna need some sound stages. Build a few on that land but also make it an entertainment district. Sort of like a mini Universal City Walk. Add a Southern Arizona Motion Picture Museum and at least downtown would be prepared to have filming set up to further that industry. And when a sound stage isn't in use can be used as space for conventions or even smaller concerts. Avg size sound stage is 15-45k sq. feet. Thats sizeable.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by AZ71

I liked the original idea whey they threw around the idea of a Gem & Mineral Museum and then an aquatic museum. Of course city council and Rio Nuevo bawked at the idea. Now the Gem museum is in the old Pima County Courthouse and the aquarium was snagged by Scottsdale and is OdySea. Tucson just has no vision. Even if they dont want to build any kind of arena...I think the best we can hope for is like an outdoor shopping plaza of restaurants, bars, museum, hotel and residnetial towers. I'd love a small arena but its just not going to happen. My other idea is with the potential tax incentive bill passing...Tucson is gonna need some sound stages. Build a few on that land but also make it an entertainment district. Sort of like a mini Universal City Walk. Add a Southern Arizona Motion Picture Museum and at least downtown would be prepared to have filming set up to further that industry. And when a sound stage isn't in use can be used as space for conventions or even smaller concerts. Avg size sound stage is 15-45k sq. feet. Thats sizeable.

Exactly. Do *something*. Anything. Tucson needs to think like San Antonio when it went with a crazy idea called "Riverwalk". Imagine that? A river under downtown with retail. Crazy. Get crazy Tucson or get nowhere. You've guaranteed you'll never be another Phoenix...will you even be another Albuquerque at this point???

[Locofresh55]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

Exactly. Do *something*. Anything. Tucson needs to think like San Antonio when it went with a crazy idea called "Riverwalk". Imagine that? A river under downtown with retail. Crazy. Get crazy Tucson or get nowhere. You've guaranteed you'll never be another Phoenix...will you even be another Albuquerque at this point???

Unfortunately, I feel like more Tucsonans would rather "get nowhere". The water shortage in the being in the news again has thrusted the NIMBY's into this,"this is exactly why people don't need to move here, because we don't have water". NIMBYs are jumping on every news article about development in Tucson/Pima county and are ranting about more people and less water equals a disastrous situation. I even saw one person comment that Tucson should have a population limit to prevent people from moving in. I agree that the water shortage is a serious issue, but to mention silly things like preventing people from moving here is just asinine.

[combusean]

The arena would be a money pit and a bad idea even if built.

I think people should really consider the ill effects of turning downtown Tucson from what sort of resembles a neighborhood into a collection of uses. Phoenix tried that for 25 years and it was an unmitigated disaster. Civic Plaza, the arena, the ballpark, and even ASU (the one thing they did which arguably worked however) was a wide, indiscriminate blade of urban renewal. Downtowns do not need that sort of thing.

Even if it did muster the finances for some sort of signature project, it still has a seemingly slow, unpredictable development process (like 8 months to approve a storage unit) and complicated zoning code. None of that small town mindset is going to go away even if they did fill some big britches and approve some sort of potential catalyst.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by Locofresh55

Unfortunately, I feel like more Tucsonans would rather "get nowhere". The water shortage in the being in the news again has thrusted the NIMBY's into this,"this is exactly why people don't need to move here, because we don't have water". NIMBYs are jumping on every news article about development in Tucson/Pima county and are ranting about more people and less water equals a disastrous situation. I even saw one person comment that Tucson should have a population limit to prevent people from moving in. I agree that the water shortage is a serious issue, but to mention silly things like preventing people from moving here is just asinine.

I get so sick of the water excuse everyone talks about. Its really rallied the nimby's. The fact of it is Tucson is in one of the best shapes of any city in the dry southwest. We pump a lot of the CAP water into the Avra Valley aquifer. We have at least 100 year supply for everyone even with new people. And then the water we do use 70% of it is agriculture. So they'll be the first to have rations. Our conservation efforts and is great and we should do more...but it sways the facts and reality of the situation that we're in this dire need...and its just not true. And if they were so worried they should move back from where they came from and should never have retired in the dry SW.