Public Disorder & the Decline of Vancouver's Livability

[whatnext]

This weekend's broken window tally that I saw: two windows at The Bay on Georgia (where you think the VPD would have enough eyes on the street) and the York Theatre on Commercial.

[hollywoodnorth]

Glass smashed on Vancouver tourist-favourite Gastown steam clock

https://globalnews.ca/news/8801981/gastown-steam-clock-damage/


stay classy Vancouver!

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

Glass smashed on Vancouver tourist-favourite Gastown steam clock

https://globalnews.ca/news/8801981/gastown-steam-clock-damage/


stay classy Vancouver!

No biggy, I always thought that clock was like 150 years old but it's less than 50 years old

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

No biggy, I always thought that clock was like 150 years old but it's less than 50 years old

It may not be old but still fairly significant:

A steam clock is a clock which is fully or partially powered by a steam engine. Only a few functioning steam clocks exist, most designed and built by Canadian horologist Raymond Saunders for display in urban public spaces. Steam clocks built by Saunders are located in Otaru, Japan; Indianapolis, United States; and the Canadian cities of Vancouver, Whistler and Port Coquitlam, all in British Columbia. Steam clocks by other makers are installed in St Helier, Jersey and at the Chelsea Farmers' Market in London, England.

Although they are often styled to appear as 19th-century antiques, steam clocks are a more recent phenomenon inspired by the Gastown steam clock built by Saunders in 1977. One exception is the steam clock built in the 19th century by Birmingham engineer John Inshaw to demonstrate the versatility of steam power....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_clock

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

It may not be old but still fairly significant:

A steam clock is a clock which is fully or partially powered by a steam engine. Only a few functioning steam clocks exist, most designed and built by Canadian horologist Raymond Saunders for display in urban public spaces. Steam clocks built by Saunders are located in Otaru, Japan; Indianapolis, United States; and the Canadian cities of Vancouver, Whistler and Port Coquitlam, all in British Columbia. Steam clocks by other makers are installed in St Helier, Jersey and at the Chelsea Farmers' Market in London, England.

Although they are often styled to appear as 19th-century antiques, steam clocks are a more recent phenomenon inspired by the Gastown steam clock built by Saunders in 1977. One exception is the steam clock built in the 19th century by Birmingham engineer John Inshaw to demonstrate the versatility of steam power....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_clock

Ah, wikipedia - never to be relied upon. "Saying the clock is “steam-powered” is a bit of a misnomer, as the clockworks itself is powered by descending weights. The mini-steam engine at the base of the clock case takes up the role of the human “winder” by raising a series of ball weights and delivering the weights to the clock drive train. But the steam engine is connected by a rubber belt to an electric motor hidden from view - much more reliable than steam power." [source]

So a fake antique, that isn't steam powered, to draw the tourists. From the same era that gave you Blood Alley (despite the fact that there were no butchers or nasty murders there) and Gaolers Mews (where numerous websites will tell you the gallows stood to execute guilty murderers - except anyone found guilty in Granville (as it was before 1886) was executed in New Westminster.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

Nope, people are often ornery without any prompting on the internet particularly when you make a mistake, their self-righteousness comes out of nowhere yet in person people are almost never like that
---
One can just as easily be evicted in a nice place as one can from an SRO on the DTES so you don't know what you're talking about. A couple of times my kids had to move with my ex from perfectly nice houses in perfectly nice neighborhoods because the owner decided to sell the house they were renting. I've lived in the DTES and never had a problem like that
---
Show me one study that shows children raised by single-parents fare better than children raised by two

Pot, meet kettle.

And once they’re evicted (or they could be) that increases stress, and thereby their chance of mental breakdown and/or dependency; if they don’t have a backup plan, that makes them homeless, and makes the above ten times worse. You’re proving my point.

One study. Two studies. The only conclusive data so far is that stability is best for the kids.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

...So a fake antique, that isn't steam powered, to draw the tourists. From the same era that gave you Blood Alley (despite the fact that there were no butchers or nasty murders there) and Gaolers Mews (where numerous websites will tell you the gallows stood to execute guilty murderers - except anyone found guilty in Granville (as it was before 1886) was executed in New Westminster.

Sounds like an update is in order. How about Overdose Alley and Meth Mews?

[whatnext]

Just an example of what small businesses have to deal with downtown:

Unviable business climate prompts Vancity Sports to leave Vancouver
32-year-old business plans to move to Richmond
By Glen Korstrom | May 2, 2022

Seymour Street's decline into being a magnet for homeless people, drug users and vandals is forcing one of its longest operating businesses to close shop.

Vancity Sports is permanently shutting its 32-year-old store at 646 Seymour Street by the end of May, owner John Czvelka told BIV.

"There is nothing worse for me to come to work every day, driving to work, and worry who's sleeping in front of my door," he said.

"It's an awful feeling driving to work, not knowing what to expect when you get to your business."

He said the number of drug users in the area is more than he has ever seen, and he has worked in the area since 1978, when he was employed at the Hudson's Bay, across the street from his store.

Czvelka boarded up his windows during the pandemic, and has kept them boarded up out of a fear that if he removes the plywood, vandals will break his windows as they have at neighbouring shops.

He said his property tax this year rose by $600 per month.....

https://biv.com/article/2022/05/unviable-business-climate-prompts-vancity-sports-leave-vancouver

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Just an example of what small businesses have to deal with downtown:

Unviable business climate prompts Vancity Sports to leave Vancouver
32-year-old business plans to move to Richmond
By Glen Korstrom | May 2, 2022

Seymour Street's decline into being a magnet for homeless people, drug users and vandals is forcing one of its longest operating businesses to close shop.

Vancity Sports is permanently shutting its 32-year-old store at 646 Seymour Street by the end of May, owner John Czvelka told BIV.

"There is nothing worse for me to come to work every day, driving to work, and worry who's sleeping in front of my door," he said.

"It's an awful feeling driving to work, not knowing what to expect when you get to your business."

He said the number of drug users in the area is more than he has ever seen, and he has worked in the area since 1978, when he was employed at the Hudson's Bay, across the street from his store.

Czvelka boarded up his windows during the pandemic, and has kept them boarded up out of a fear that if he removes the plywood, vandals will break his windows as they have at neighbouring shops.

He said his property tax this year rose by $600 per month.....

https://biv.com/article/2022/05/unviable-business-climate-prompts-vancity-sports-leave-vancouver

The rest of the article points out that he's moving to a cheaper space in Richmond, where he can operate his online business more easily there because the pandemic has changed how people shop. And that he's in the Bay Parkade building, which is going to be redeveloped (maybe) one day, and there's going to be disruption of his block if the Bay office addition goes ahead. And he can't get merchandise, the Canucks aren't in the playoffs so nobody's buying their gear, and some manufacturing plants faced covid closures.

[hollywoodnorth]

15-year-old arrested after three strangers attacked on Olympic Village seawall

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/stranger-attacks-15-year-old-olympic-village-seawall

A woman was also attacked and robbed by another woman holding a broken bottle near West Pender and Homer streets early Monday morning. The victim suffered injuries to her face but called 911 as she watched the suspect go into a convenience store. Police arrested the suspect.

A stranger also bear-sprayed a teenager at Leeside Skatepark near Empire field Saturday afternoon and then stole the teen’s skateboard. The skater wasn’t injured and no arrests have been made.

On Sunday afternoon, a 31-year-old woman called 911 about a man who threw a rock at her on Drake Street. The rock missed but hit a nearby vehicle. The woman ran away, and officers arrested a 45-year-old suspect.

A man was also followed and kicked by a stranger as he left a 24-hour coffee shop near Station Street and Terminal Avenue on Saturday. The 43-year-old suspect was apprehended under the Mental Health Act.

A 38-year-old man was also shocked in the leg with a “makeshift stun-gun” near Main and Hastings Sunday afternoon. Police say the suspect was a 47-year-old woman who lives in the area and she fled before police arrived.

To round out the weekend, police also dealt with three stabbings. Two neighbours in Strathcona got into a fight on Saturday night that ended with one of them being stabbed in the arm and taken to hospital. Two days later, the men go into another fight and the other man also suffered knife wounds.

The third stabbing happened on Sunday afternoon on East Hastings Street, but the victim is apparently not cooperating with police.

“This level of violence in a single weekend is concerning, especially when the incidents involve stranger-on-stranger attacks and weapons like knives, bear spray, and other make-shift weapons,” Sgt. Steve Addison said in a news release.

[Klazu]

Oh wow. Downtown just keeps getting shittier by the day. The amount of random attacks and vagrancy is unbelievable. So many cruise ship tourists are going to be shocked by what they see on their visit here and I bet for many Vancouver was the least appealing part of their trip.

[giallo]

It's been pretty interesting watching my wife react to Vancouver after arriving six days ago. She's/We've spent the last five years in Seoul, and twelve years in Shanghai before that. Both cities are extremely clean and safe.

I'm not going to lie, I was pretty embarrassed by Vancouver's current state initially, and was nervous about how she'd react to our neighbourhood (Mt. Pleasant), and to Vancouver in general. She's been here a bunch of times over the past 20 years, but it's never been like this. And by this, I mean mental ill and addicted people everywhere. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't see someone straight up out of it. Whether they're screaming at something, knocking over mailboxes, slumped in a corner, or smoking crack along Broadway, it's pervasive, and really eye-opening. I never thought I'd see a Canadian city get this bad. She's been pretty much ok with it, but I think it has to do with me being there with her. She asked me if I think it's safe for her to walk along East Broadway at night. I couldn't give her a solid answer. I've seen too many sketchy/f-ed up dudes walking along the stretch between Commercial and Main to feel comfortable telling her that everything is fine.

I know a lot of people here are angry, but it just makes me sad. There are thousands and thousands of people in serious need of help, but they just aren't getting it. Watching fellow human beings rot away in the streets in real time is not fun. The provincial and federal government should be absolutely embarrassed by the state of things.

[logan5]

There is a sketchy/druggy element along the Broadway Corridor, but if you are not familiar with Broadway, I’ll say it’s nothing close to as bad as areas in the peninsula. I live in mt pleasant and have never actually seen anybody doing drugs. Maybe there are some doing it, but they don’t do it out in the open. The stretch of Broadway between Commercial and Main is mostly residential. It’s fairly quiet. The main broadway area is where you would find some homeless or addicts, but they are not prevalent imo. There is an issue with shoplifting, but I haven’t seen or heard of any physical assaults on anybody, and very very few verbal attacks or outbursts. The number of functional people far outnumber the very few dysfunctional people at night, so it’s very safe at night. Mt. Pleasant is a safe neighbourhood.

My counterpoint.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by logan5

There is a sketchy/druggy element along the Broadway Corridor, but if you are not familiar with Broadway, I’ll say it’s nothing close to as bad as areas in the peninsula. I live in mt pleasant and have never actually seen anybody doing drugs. Maybe there are some doing it, but they don’t do it out in the open. The stretch of Broadway between Commercial and Main is mostly residential. It’s fairly quiet. The main broadway area is where you would find some homeless or addicts, but they are not prevalent imo. There is an issue with shoplifting, but I haven’t seen or heard of any physical assaults on anybody, and very very few verbal attacks or outbursts. The number of functional people far outnumber the very few dysfunctional people at night, so it’s very safe at night. Mt. Pleasant is a safe neighbourhood.

My counterpoint.

Overall, I agree with Mt. Pleasant being a safe neighbourhood. Outside of Broadway, it's downright peaceful.

But Broadway is an issue. There were two women openly smoking meth for at least an hour at Broadway and Price Edward St. yesterday. We went to get some things at Shoppers, walked back the same way we came, and they were still there puffing away. The Independent got all graffitied up as well. It's rare to see new apartment complexes with big pieces of graffiti on the windows, but someone managed to climb up there, and do it.

And finally Commercial/Broadway Station. It's always been gritty, but now with the open drug area at 8th and Commercial, you get a lot more addicts spilling out into the streets.

I'm coming from a place (East Asia) where this just isn't an issue, so I might be a bit more sensitive to it these days.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by giallo

...And finally Commercial/Broadway Station. It's always been gritty, but now with the open drug area at 8th and Commercial, you get a lot more addicts spilling out into the streets.

I'm just coming from a place (East Asia) where this just isn't an issue, so I might be a bit more sensitive to it these days.

You're not the only one noticing that problem:

30% of Commercial Drive BIA's budget spent on cleaning SkyTrain hub area
Kenneth Chan|
Apr 29 2022

The intersection of Commercial Drive and East Broadway is home to Western Canada’s busiest public transit hub, with tens of thousands of passengers typically transferring between SkyTrain’s Expo and Millennium lines and the various bus routes on a daily basis.

But the business improvement association (BIA) that represents Commercial Drive believes deteriorating conditions around Commercial-Broadway Station hub are not providing a good first impression for their retail district, and could be deterring visitors who would otherwise venture further beyond the station to support struggling shops and restaurants....

....He says the problems in the area relate to vandalism, graffiti, garbage, public safety, and public disorder and social issues.

According to Pogor, his BIA now spends about 30% of their annual budget towards the immediate area surrounding the transit hub, including the adjacent TransLink-owned The Hub retail buildings — anchored by Shoppers Drug Mart — and the area around the Crombie REIT-owned Safeway grocery store.....

....“It is a real challenge to keep the area safe,” he said, noting that the street conditions right outside the doors of businesses are an added burden to their operations following a challenging two years, and the difficult economic climate that persists.

“Many businesses have to deal with campers, trespassers sleeping at their doorways when they arrive in the morning, deal with human waste, and just keeping the areas around their businesses safe for their customers is a big challenge. And that goes over and above the day-to-day operations of running their business.”.....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/commercial-broadway-station-public-safety-crime-issues

[jollyburger]

(duplicate)

[NewfBC]

I was down in the River District area on the weekend.. so nice and peaceful.. people going about their business.. no craziness.. nothing damanged.

I guess when you're a little bit 'out of the way', keeps the riff raff out.

Ron.

[logan5]

Within the city of Vancouver, it is a very small percentage of its area that is affected by social dysfunction. Commercial has a bad area around the Skytrain, but overall it is a great neighborhood. Even downtown for the most part is fine. There are beggars but it is safe even at night.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by giallo

It's been pretty interesting watching my wife react to Vancouver after arriving six days ago. She's/We've spent the last five years in Seoul, and twelve years in Shanghai before that. Both cities are extremely clean and safe.

I'm not going to lie, I was pretty embarrassed by Vancouver's current state initially, and was nervous about how she'd react to our neighbourhood (Mt. Pleasant), and to Vancouver in general. She's been here a bunch of times over the past 20 years, but it's never been like this. And by this, I mean mental ill and addicted people everywhere. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't see someone straight up out of it. Whether they're screaming at something, knocking over mailboxes, slumped in a corner, or smoking crack along Broadway, it's pervasive, and really eye-opening. I never thought I'd see a Canadian city get this bad. She's been pretty much ok with it, but I think it has to do with me being there with her. She asked me if I think it's safe for her to walk along East Broadway at night. I couldn't give her a solid answer. I've seen too many sketchy/f-ed up dudes walking along the stretch between Commercial and Main to feel comfortable telling her that everything is fine.

I know a lot of people here are angry, but it just makes me sad. There are thousands and thousands of people in serious need of help, but they just aren't getting it. Watching fellow human beings rot away in the streets in real time is not fun. The provincial and federal government should be absolutely embarrassed by the state of things.

Welcome back to the Third World.

Originally Posted by logan5

Within the city of Vancouver, it is a very small percentage of its area that is affected by social dysfunction. Commercial has a bad area around the Skytrain, but overall it is a great neighborhood. Even downtown for the most part is fine. There are beggars but it is safe even at night.

Desensitization is a real thing.

Originally Posted by Phil McAvity

No biggy, I always thought that clock was like 150 years old but it's less than 50 years old

Yes no biggie: just a lame steam clock. I suggest we raze the entire Gastown to the ground and build one huge warehouse to shelter the homeless. Who needs all the history and heritage when they are going to be summarily destroyed anyway?

[Phil McAvity]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Pot, meet kettle.

And once they’re evicted (or they could be) that increases stress, and thereby their chance of mental breakdown and/or dependency; if they don’t have a backup plan, that makes them homeless, and makes the above ten times worse. You’re proving my point.

One study. Two studies. The only conclusive data so far is that stability is best for the kids.

No pot met any kettle with anything I said because in order for that to have happened I must have been hypocritical in something I said, except there wasn't anything hypocritical so you're wrong again. I was clear and made the point that any renter can get evicted from any place if the property owner decides to sell which had nothing to do with renting adversely affecting kids. What's more I don't think kids think the same way adults do, especially when it comes to renting versus owning, I expect very few kids even know the difference let alone care, these are adult thoughts and concerns

As far as the two studies you cited, neither had much to do with two parent families producing better outcomes for kids than single-parent families but i'm not surprised given that lucidity isn't exactly your strength. The first study, "investigated whether adolescents living with parents of their same gender fare better on academic achievement than their peers living with opposite-gender parents." That's not the same as studying child outcomes from two-parent families versus single-parent families. The goal of the second study was, "to estimate the relative influence of family structure, maternal resources, and family mental health on predicting socioeconomic attainment in young adulthood." So it also was not a comparison between parenting outcomes of single-parent families to two-parent families so you've proved nothing although i'm sure you're very commited to this notion that single parents families are just as good for kids as are traditional families and renting is really traumatic for kids even though you've provided zero evidence. As i said, what is actually traumatic for kids are things like sexual abuse, alcoholism, drug abuse, neglect, and emotional/physical abuse for which there is mountains of evidence. You're right that stability is best for kids but what you don't understand is that two parent families provide greater stability than single-parent families and that's why they produce happier, better, more successful kids