Winnipeg | Hudson’s Bay Building | Wehwehneh Bahgahkinahgohn | U/C

[drew]

Meh. Any asbestos in that building are within finishes added subsequent to it's original construction. I am sure there is some asbestos in pipe insulation, floor tiles, maybe some wall partitions - but the building is 1920's vintage and would pre-date asbestos in any of the original finishes or underlying structure.

Seeing as the interior is mostly open floor plates, the amount of asbestos relative to it's square footage I would assume to be minor - and would need to be cleared out no matter who develops this building.

And derelict is not a term to be used with this building - because it isn't. That's just unnecessary dramatics by this reporter.

[zalf]

That atrium and glass ceiling look great! Very excited to see some renders. The ceremony is at 10:00, and hopefully we get to see more after that. In the CBC story, you can see some renders, including this one, on easels in one of the photos but it's hard to make out.

But the plan seems to be roughly: donut the building and enclose with glass atrium, the amenities TV mentioned presumably on the ground level, apartments on the upper levels

[drew]

IMO the symbolism of this development is powerful, and I am hopeful that the building is brought back to meaningful, long term use.

My only concern is that the budget seems a little light. I hope 130 million is enough.

[thebasketballgeek]

Feds are providing $65m in funding and there’s going to be around 300 units for affordable housing.

[T'Cona]

I am sorry but Thunderbird House on Main, the former CP Station on Higgins...I do have concern about what may happen here.

[peg]

I am very optimistic and excited about this.

This is huge for Indigenous peoples and for Winnipeg.

Kudos to the SCO for taking this building on and having a vision for its future.

I think that a lot of the comments here are unfair... Please wait until we see the concrete plans before jumping to such unfair conclusions...

I am so so so happy that this building will have a second life.

[sleepyeyed]

when it was first announced it was empty, I was hoping for something like this for the building. great use. a bit too bad there couldn't be some sort of archives or university but I think this will also open up more plans for the future.

glad we didn't give a bunch of subsidies for a private company to bail on us ala trizec, the bay, etc..

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by sleepyeyed

a bit too bad there couldn't be some sort of archives or university but I think this will also open up more plans for the future.

I wouldn't be surprised if the U of W ended up leasing some of the floor space in the future.

[bomberjet]

So are we or are we not happy about HBC historical property? Nobody wanted it demo'd. But nobody wanted the building. HBC would just leave it to actually turn into a derelict property.

The only solution is Government or demo. We got government. IMO this is reasonable as I mentioned before. It wasn't handing out $100 million to a private company. People would scream and cry over that. So it goes to indigenous people. What's wrong with that?

HBC offloaded their problem. Sometimes that's how things work. You go buy a car. You know damn well that dealership is raping you. But you still buy the car. You buy a new house. Same deal. Getting killed by the developer. So here, HBC offloads a problem without us actually paying them anything from what I can tell.

And the building stays and is redeveloped into what looks like the exact thing many on here have be talking about for years, literally.

[(sub)urban]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So are we or are we not happy about HBC historical property? Nobody wanted it demo'd. But nobody wanted the building. HBC would just leave it to actually turn into a derelict property.

The only solution is Government or demo. We got government. IMO this is reasonable as I mentioned before. It wasn't handing out $100 million to a private company. People would scream and cry over that. So it goes to indigenous people. What's wrong with that?

HBC offloaded their problem. Sometimes that's how things work. You go buy a car. You know damn well that dealership is raping you. But you still buy the car. You buy a new house. Same deal. Getting killed by the developer. So here, HBC offloads a problem without us actually paying them anything from what I can tell.

And the building stays and is redeveloped into what looks like the exact thing many on here have be talking about for years, literally.

I think you have to be happy about it. They're definitely paying a pretty penny for the project but they're getting a total of over $50M of support across all levels of govt. and it's nice from a tax-payer perspective to see that money not just lining the pockets of a rich private org but rather going to help support an Indigenous organization with a project that will build housing + community supports, a museum, etc. furthering reconciliatory goals.

I think the only people who are disappointed or angry at this are pie-in-the-sky dreamers who were illusioned into thinking a company like Amazon would buy it, put a Trader Joes on the first two floors and then shoot two residential towers up on top...

This development should be considered at least decent anywhere, for Winnipeg it's an A+ IMO.

I think it's fair to be concerned that their budget of $130 M is on the low-side, although I read that article to say that they were budgeting $130 M of their own contributions, which would put the real total budget closer to like the $180M range with govt. contributions. Although I didn't pay close attention and could be talking out of my a** so don't quote me on that lol.

[sleepyeyed]

I think people are also making racist assumptions about the ability of the SCO to manage the development, but there is lots of business development experience within the SCO as well with Long Plain's Keesh developments (including the Wyndham hotel), Madison Urban Reserve, Yellowquill, solar farm in Fisher River, etc

Thunderbird House and the old CPR stations are much smaller organizations with less financial support and smaller networks to pull from. they're also off reserve, so the city should be taking some responsibility...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by (sub)urban

I think the only people who are disappointed or angry at this are pie-in-the-sky dreamers who were illusioned into thinking a company like Amazon would buy it, put a Trader Joes on the first two floors and then shoot two residential towers up on top...

Because that would never happen anywhere with an old Bay store



Seriously though, the cheap budget is part of my concern. Is there enough money to even properly realize the vision here? When we're talking about whether the province is in for $10 million or $25 million, that's not a good sign IMO.

[sleepyeyed]

images from SCO

[Highwayman]

I think people here that are concerned with the $130 million budget are not taking into account they are getting the land and building for $0.00. compare that to say PP where the not mentioned lame company that was going to redo that building had the cost of the building acquisition and Reno's in one.

As mentioned also. This is $130 million of their money. Plus $25 million from the province. Plus $10 million from the city. Plus I'm sure from the feds also.

And it's getting the doughnut cut which solves most of the issues with the building being too big. Who knows how big the hole will be??? It might be a giant portion of the inner building so factor that in as well. Less floor plate to develop means the $130 million goes alot further.

[sleepyeyed]

Originally Posted by esquire

Because that would never happen anywhere with an old Bay store

image

Seriously though, the cheap budget is part of my concern. Is there enough money to even properly realize the vision here? When we're talking about whether the province is in for $10 million or $25 million, that's not a good sign IMO.

different expectations, though. private companies expect to make significant returns on their investment, where as the SCO probably views this as a community development supported by the business ventures.

[zalf]

Per the speeches given today:
$65 million from the federal government for housing components
$25 million from the province for affordable housing
$10 million from the province for preserving heritage elements

Per the CBC article:
Unspecified amount of tax incentives from the city, yet to be voted on by council but sure to pass


I don't know how how much SCO themselves are contributing, but whatever it is it would be on top of what the three levels of government are kicking in

[drew]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

And it's getting the doughnut cut which solves most of the issues with the building being too big. Who knows how big the hole will be??? It might be a giant portion of the inner building so factor that in as well. Less floor plate to develop means the $130 million goes alot further.

Honestly the fact it's getting the doughnut is very satisfying - I have been preaching the doughnut on this building for years now!

Those interior renders look great too.

Get 'er done.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by zalf

Per the speeches given today:
$65 million from the federal government for housing components
$25 million from the province for affordable housing
$10 million from the province for preserving heritage elements

Per the CBC article:
Unspecified amount of tax incentives from the city, yet to be voted on by council but sure to pass


I don't know how how much SCO themselves are contributing, but whatever it is it would be on top of what the three levels of government are kicking in

My understanding is:

Fed
$55m in forgivable loan
$10m in low interest loan

Province
$25m for heritage features such as facade, canopy and elevator bank
$10m for housing portion.

$100m total.

The other $30m will have to come from the SCO

[esquire]

Any exterior renderings? I'm curious to know whether there will be any changes to the building's outward appearance. I'm also wondering what's in store for the parkade. That's a lot of parking space for a building that won't have a retail use anymore. I wonder what the parkade owners will do with it... it can't be cheap to keep that old thing standing, and between The Bay being gone and diminished demand for downtown parking, they will have a decision to make.

[drew]

^ Who ever owns that parkade just poured a boat load of $$ completing a multi-year remediation.

Also, the replacement cost on that facility would also be astronomical.

I suspect it isn't going anywhere.