Winnipeg | Hudson’s Bay Building | Wehwehneh Bahgahkinahgohn | U/C

[1ajs]

mmf paid top dallor for the bmo building

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

The funny thing about all this is that everyone involved in this project will be patting themselves on the back for building positive Indigenous relationships when in reality this is yet another case of a discarded building being repurposed as a second rate facility for Indigenous people to use.

Passenger railways fell out of use and Canadian Pacific had no use for its old station... hand it over to Indigenous groups, let them deal with it.

Winnipeg's role as a financial centre has disappeared, Bank of Montreal has no use for a stately old banking hall at Portage and Main. Turn it over to MMF.

Hudson's Bay no longer needs a big downtown retail emporium. Hand it over to Southern Chiefs, and then pat yourself on the back for promoting reconciliation.

I'd be more convinced about all these amends supposedly being made if it wasn't just old, unwanted buildings being turned over to Indigenous groups. It's the real estate equivalent of some piece of junky furniture being placed on the curb, hoping someone will pick it up so it won't be your problem anymore.

It is truly depressing. It feels like Winnipeg is being put in its place and humbled by this announcement. We are the red headed step child among Canadian cities.

Depends how much public money they receive. A significant injection of cash wouldn't make it seem like they are giving away some old unwanted item. It would be like leaving an old piece of furniture on the curb, but with a bag full of cash to reupholster it so it's as good as new.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

Based on the information we have on hand, this project sounds absolutely demoralizing.

All attempts at private-sector market-driven redevelopments have failed, so here we are. An enormous heritage building will be given away and redone on the cheap to put up something that will do little or nothing for the downtown area beyond keeping the lights on in a prominent building.

I would love to see the total project budget... will it even result in more affordable housing units than several cheaper, smaller new builds around town? I have my doubts.

This announcement is a bitter pill to swallow and a harsh reality check for anyone who thought downtown Winnipeg was turning a corner and becoming a place that could draw people and investment.

Couldn't agree more extremely disappointing news.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

The funny thing about all this is that everyone involved in this project will be patting themselves on the back for building positive Indigenous relationships when in reality this is yet another case of a discarded building being repurposed as a second rate facility for Indigenous people to use.

Passenger railways fell out of use and Canadian Pacific had no use for its old station... hand it over to Indigenous groups, let them deal with it.

Winnipeg's role as a financial centre has disappeared, Bank of Montreal has no use for a stately old banking hall at Portage and Main. Turn it over to MMF.

Hudson's Bay no longer needs a big downtown retail emporium. Hand it over to Southern Chiefs, and then pat yourself on the back for promoting reconciliation.

I'd be more convinced about all these amends supposedly being made if it wasn't just old, unwanted buildings being turned over to Indigenous groups. It's the real estate equivalent of some piece of junky furniture being placed on the curb, hoping someone will pick it up so it won't be your problem anymore.

It is truly depressing. It feels like Winnipeg is being put in its place and humbled by this announcement. We are the red headed step child among Canadian cities.

Exactly. This news pretty much feels like at this point downtown is a lost cause and the political and business community have no interest in actually improving it. The continual hand me down unwanted downtown heritage buildings to Indigenous groups continues and the white liberal elites will feel good for dropping more dilapidated unwanted buildings on them in the supposed name of reconciliation. 10 million bucks to fix the bay building that might fix the elevator not sure much else.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by esquire

The funny thing about all this is that everyone involved in this project will be patting themselves on the back for building positive Indigenous relationships when in reality this is yet another case of a discarded building being repurposed as a second rate facility for Indigenous people to use.

Passenger railways fell out of use and Canadian Pacific had no use for its old station... hand it over to Indigenous groups, let them deal with it.

Winnipeg's role as a financial centre has disappeared, Bank of Montreal has no use for a stately old banking hall at Portage and Main. Turn it over to MMF.

Hudson's Bay no longer needs a big downtown retail emporium. Hand it over to Southern Chiefs, and then pat yourself on the back for promoting reconciliation.

I'd be more convinced about all these amends supposedly being made if it wasn't just old, unwanted buildings being turned over to Indigenous groups. It's the real estate equivalent of some piece of junky furniture being placed on the curb, hoping someone will pick it up so it won't be your problem anymore.

It is truly depressing. It feels like Winnipeg is being put in its place and humbled by this announcement. We are the red headed step child among Canadian cities.

I don’t know would you rather some private developer provide “market-rate” condos so that a certain demographic and income group would be present in the Downtown instead? Sorry, but I’d much rather let existing residents in the area live here in an affordable manner and increase the prominence of Indigenous culture in the city. Especially, when most residents would use more sustainable modes of transportation such as bussing or cycling.

The HBC building is a hallmark of colonial design in Winnipeg why is it such a problem that an Indigenous group wants to remove this colonial past so it can be a place of reconciliation? The city doesn’t build enough public housing as it is so if this starts a precedent for repurposing old buildings I’m all ears.

Also, are u implying that turning over the Bank of Montreal building to the MMF was a bad idea? I’ve only heard positive sentiment as it finally provided an indigenous presence on our most prominent intersection.

Maybe you should look at it from a perspective of we have the largest Indigenous population in the city and are finally utilizing this demographic advantage that really no place in North America has. Developments like these aren’t going to drive investors away, but induce demand for further investment in the adjacent area. We have to remember downtown grew at nearly double the population rate compared to the rest of the municipality. There is demand to live there because once again it’s still the most convenient and walkable part of the city.

Oh btw I wouldn’t call the former Kapyong Barracks lands “unwanted real estate.” That’s arguably the most desirable infill area in the entire city and as a result will be Canada’s largest urban reserve.

[bomberjet]

I think one can still be disappointed about the outcome and not be racist.

What's the actual proposal? Find out tomorrow?

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Most likely the bay will be handed to the city or province for nothing...if a redevelopment plan doesn’t surface shortly. But I’m confident one will. It will take contribution from al three levels of government likely. Similar money given to the portage place guys from the city and province would probably do it. There is likely more political will today than there has been in the past.

It’ll happen. It’s not an insurmountable challenge. The building is sturdy and it’s concrete structure makes it very flexible for redevelopment.

Hopefully, they get this type of funding.

Originally Posted by cheswick

Province announced a $25m trust to help develop the Bay building in it's new budget.

I wonder why the free press article mentioned $10 million from the province. A wee bit short of the $25 million announced a year ago.

Originally Posted by trueviking

$150 million.

Hopefully at least this much funding is announced tomorrow.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by thebasketballgeek

Maybe you should look at it from a perspective of we have the largest Indigenous population in the city and are finally utilizing this demographic advantage that really no place in North America has. Developments like these aren’t going to drive investors away, but induce demand for further investment in the adjacent area. We have to remember downtown grew at nearly double the population rate compared to the rest of the municipality. There is demand to live there because once again it’s still the most convenient and walkable part of the city.

The thing here is that we aren't using the Indigenous population of our city to our advantage. Unless you call saddling the Indigenous population with what is basically unwanted junk an "advantage".

If anything I would express gratitude to Indigenous organizations for spending time and money on fixing a problem that they never created in the first place. But personally I think they deserve better.

[GreyGarden]

Originally Posted by esquire

It is truly depressing. It feels like Winnipeg is being put in its place and humbled by this announcement. We are the red headed step child among Canadian cities.

I think this is just the state of downtown Winnipeg though. We were never going to get some glassy structure on top of the Bay. Winnipeg is full of surface parking lots and underutilized buildings that would be a lot cheaper and less difficult to redevelop and no one is clamoring to turn them into housing. Our downtown isn't vibrant and the demand for high end housing just doesn't exist here to the extent that undertaking major glassy developments makes financial sense. And for those who think the city has taken a step back, I bet a project like that would've been even less feasible ten years ago which some seem to think was the modern golden age of downtown Winnipeg. Further, we aren't part of a larger metropolitan area that is absorbing educated medium to high earning residents from a larger more expensive city (Kitchner, Waterloo, Hamilton, London - and basically all of southern Ontario).

Going past the boarded up windows of the Bay every day was really depressing and I was beginning to think this was something we'd just have to live with for years until it burnt down or something.

I'll reserve judgment until I see renderings, but I'm just happy that there will be some form of activity taking place in this building, even if it isn't shopping and high end condos. Further, as to Boreal's comment, I'd love to see the Memorial area become a hub of indigenous culture in Canada. We have the new art gallery, if this re-use can compliment it in some way that'll be a positive in my opinion. thebasketballgeek is right, Winnipeg has the largest indigenous population in the country and we should be the epicenter of indigenous culture in Canada. If we don't strive towards that, Toronto or Vancouver will happily and easily swoop in to take that opportunity away.

The Bay itself is an attractive building, we'll have to wait and see how the renderings look (keeping in mind Winnipeg value engineering). I'd love to copy and paste the Vancouver or Victoria developments, but those kinds of developments just aren't really feasible here. That's hoping for a reality that just doesn't exist. If they can find the money to preserve the exterior walls and carve an atrium in the middle and keep the building clean, I'll be more than content with that outcome. We've known for a long time that doing anything with this building was going to be unbelievably expensive.

The other day waiting for my bus I caught myself looking at the Boyd building and was overcome with how beautiful it was, and then remembered that its just empty. The Bay should be highly sought after real estate for offices, retail and residential. Buildings like the Boyd building should be spectacular apartments, BMO should be BMO's Winnipeg HQ, but Winnipeggers and our businesses can't afford those things. Building is expensive and our wages are low and population is small. Its something to come to peace with, we can still build a good city I believe. Hopefully this project works out.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

Bay is going to hand over the Bay building to the Southern Chiefs organization.

Besides housing maybe we see a museum and an Indigenous school.

Given the sad financial straits HBC is in, how do they justify turning it over for nothing? Is commercial real estate in downtown Winnipeg really worth so little?

[zalf]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Given the sad financial straits HBC is in, how do they justify turning it over for nothing? Is commercial real estate in downtown Winnipeg really worth so little?

It's not that it isn't a beautiful building, or that the land doesn't have value. If I recall correctly, it's the fact that it's basically an asbestos mine and the cost of other upgrades to bring it up to modern standards that made it negative value to HBC.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Given the sad financial straits HBC is in, how do they justify turning it over for nothing? Is commercial real estate in downtown Winnipeg really worth so little?

It's value is $0 as was indicated by an article in this thread a few pages ago. It has to do with the sheer size of the building and how it cannot be easily converted for other uses without a substantial injection of cash.

They won't have to worry about ongoing maintenance of the building anymore so they will save money on that at least.

[thebasketballgeek]

Originally Posted by esquire

The thing here is that we aren't using the Indigenous population of our city to our advantage. Unless you call saddling the Indigenous population with what is basically unwanted junk an "advantage".

If anything I would express gratitude to Indigenous organizations for spending time and money on fixing a problem that they never created in the first place. But personally I think they deserve better.

What’s that saying again one mans trash is another mans treasure.

Afaik nobody is forcing the Southern Chiefs organization to use this building it’s entirely on their volition. Either way I’ll hold off on further opinions until the announcement tomorrow but I’m optimistic.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy

It's value is $0 as was indicated by an article in this thread a few pages ago. It has to do with the sheer size of the building and how it cannot be easily converted for other uses without a substantial injection of cash.

They won't have to worry about ongoing maintenance of the building anymore so they will save money on that at least.

Weird. Vancouver's HBC building must be of a similar age and HBC is planning a massive (ugly IMHO) addition of office space. There was an agreement to sell it a few years ago for $675 million but it fell through.

https://biv.com/article/2022/02/stre...town-vancouver

[WinCitySparky]

Bahahahah oh Winnipeg

[dennis]

I am somewhat disappointed, but at least the building will some life again.

[Wpg_Guy]

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Given the sad financial straits HBC is in, how do they justify turning it over for nothing? Is commercial real estate in downtown Winnipeg really worth so little?

tax break

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

Based on the information we have on hand, this project sounds absolutely demoralizing.

All attempts at private-sector market-driven redevelopments have failed, so here we are. An enormous heritage building will be given away and redone on the cheap to put up something that will do little or nothing for the downtown area beyond keeping the lights on in a prominent building.

I would love to see the total project budget... will it even result in more affordable housing units than several cheaper, smaller new builds around town? I have my doubts.

This announcement is a bitter pill to swallow and a harsh reality check for anyone who thought downtown Winnipeg was turning a corner and becoming a place that could draw people and investment.

wow. That is the worst take ever. 500 people will call the Bay home. That's as many as the shiny new tower at Main and Graham that everyone has such a hard on for. It will have two restaurants, a grand public square, day care, medical clinics, office space, retail, art galleries and cultural centres. What exactly were you expecting? Not only that, it is an incredible model for reconciliation in our city, province and country. Our city's prosperity depends wholly on the prosperity of First Nations and this will go a long way to making that happen.

[trueviking]

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