Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by svlt

Not the best analogy. Bitcoin isn't tax free and it's declined quite a bit, but essentially could have been a 1,000x-10,000x bagger for early adopters. Housing has 5x'd in some markets since 2011 and seems at worst, stable.

Housing isn't tax free either unless it's your own personal home in which you live in. If its an investment property you will owe 50% capital gains when you sell.

[harls]

Originally Posted by svlt

Bitcoin isn't tax free

..unless you plan on retiring in a place like, say.. Portugal.

[lio45]

Actually, I think the analogy was excellent. After bitcoin had just shot up to $20k, you thought getting in at that point was a great idea and sound investing, that it wasn't a bubble?!?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Housing isn't tax free either unless it's your own personal home in which you live in. If its an investment property you will owe 50% capital gains when you sell.

In reality, it's much easier to "go tax free" with bitcoin than it would ever be with commercial real estate (physically located in Canada)

[whatnext]

Well, we all knew Quebec's Investor Immigrant program was a scam that allowed QC to collect money while the housing pressure was pushed onto other provinces and now we have proof:

New housing data connect immigration and property ownership
Kerry Gold
SPECIAL TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED YESTERDAY

New housing data offer a first-time view of the relationship between immigration and property ownership in cities where real estate prices have climbed highest, Vancouver and Toronto.

The data released last week show the degree of property ownership, as well as values and total family incomes, for every category of immigrant. Out of all immigrants, those who obtained citizenship through the controversial Quebec investor immigrant program have the highest assessed property values, either as a single property or multiple properties. Many have long suspected that the Quebec program has operated as a backdoor for wealthy immigrants who opt to buy properties in Vancouver and Toronto instead of remaining in Quebec, which was the intention of the program.

The Canadian Housing Statistics Program released 2020 data that show investors to the Quebec Immigrant Investor program owned, on average, a single property in Metro Vancouver valued at $1.940 million – the highest property value out of all admission categories. The average family income for that group is $70,000. By comparison, the average income for immigrants who owned a single property in Vancouver was $130,000.

The Quebec investors also had the highest average total assessed value for multiple properties in Vancouver, with an average total assessment of $4.6-million in properties. The average multiple property immigrant owner had a total assessed value of $2.7-million. The average family total income for multiple property owners for Quebec investors was $100,000, compared with the average of $190,000 for all admission categories...

....The intent behind the Quebec program is that investors, who must have net assets of at least $2-million, among other requirements, intend to settle in Quebec. Critics argue that, while they’re supposed to stay in Quebec, it’s impossible to stop investors from moving elsewhere. It’s a passive investment – requiring $1.2-million injection into the provincial government to be returned interest-free after five years ...

....“In my opinion, the No. 1 factor limiting supply of real estate now, the new housing in Canada, is labour. You cannot find it. And when you do find it, the charge is enormous. It’s crazy,” Mr. Tal said.

Mr. Yan says the system is failing new immigrants who’ve arrived to work and settle if it also allows new immigrants who are here because they are wealthy and have an appetite for real estate investment. The 110,565 immigrants who came through the federal skilled worker program and purchased a single property had one of the highest total family incomes, at $120,000, and a far lower average property value of $990,000. Although skilled workers outnumber the Quebec investors to Vancouver by a factor of 10, the latter camp has greater spending power, and the ability to drive prices upward....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...ing-data-immigration-property-ownership/

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Well, we all knew Quebec's Investor Immigrant program was a scam that allowed QC to collect money while the housing pressure was pushed onto other provinces and now we have proof:

New housing data connect immigration and property ownership
Kerry Gold
SPECIAL TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
PUBLISHED YESTERDAY

New housing data offer a first-time view of the relationship between immigration and property ownership in cities where real estate prices have climbed highest, Vancouver and Toronto.

The data released last week show the degree of property ownership, as well as values and total family incomes, for every category of immigrant. Out of all immigrants, those who obtained citizenship through the controversial Quebec investor immigrant program have the highest assessed property values, either as a single property or multiple properties. Many have long suspected that the Quebec program has operated as a backdoor for wealthy immigrants who opt to buy properties in Vancouver and Toronto instead of remaining in Quebec, which was the intention of the program.

The Canadian Housing Statistics Program released 2020 data that show investors to the Quebec Immigrant Investor program owned, on average, a single property in Metro Vancouver valued at $1.940 million – the highest property value out of all admission categories. The average family income for that group is $70,000. By comparison, the average income for immigrants who owned a single property in Vancouver was $130,000.

The Quebec investors also had the highest average total assessed value for multiple properties in Vancouver, with an average total assessment of $4.6-million in properties. The average multiple property immigrant owner had a total assessed value of $2.7-million. The average family total income for multiple property owners for Quebec investors was $100,000, compared with the average of $190,000 for all admission categories...

....The intent behind the Quebec program is that investors, who must have net assets of at least $2-million, among other requirements, intend to settle in Quebec. Critics argue that, while they’re supposed to stay in Quebec, it’s impossible to stop investors from moving elsewhere. It’s a passive investment – requiring $1.2-million injection into the provincial government to be returned interest-free after five years ...

....“In my opinion, the No. 1 factor limiting supply of real estate now, the new housing in Canada, is labour. You cannot find it. And when you do find it, the charge is enormous. It’s crazy,” Mr. Tal said.

Mr. Yan says the system is failing new immigrants who’ve arrived to work and settle if it also allows new immigrants who are here because they are wealthy and have an appetite for real estate investment. The 110,565 immigrants who came through the federal skilled worker program and purchased a single property had one of the highest total family incomes, at $120,000, and a far lower average property value of $990,000. Although skilled workers outnumber the Quebec investors to Vancouver by a factor of 10, the latter camp has greater spending power, and the ability to drive prices upward....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-est...ing-data-immigration-property-ownership/

That says we should double down on the skilled worker program. If the average immigration family has a higher average family income than the national average that is a positive. We clearly need to increase immigration.

It is good to see that many immigrations are coming with means to invest and own their own home and are not dependent on social housing in any way.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Housing isn't tax free either unless it's your own personal home in which you live in. If its an investment property you will owe 50% capital gains when you sell.

I'm sure you know this, but just for anyone who isn't aware:

You don't get taxed 50%. You only pay income tax on 50% of the gain. So half as much as if you'd made that income by working.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by casper

That says we should double down on the skilled worker program. If the average immigration family has a higher average family income than the national average that is a positive. We clearly need to increase immigration.

It is good to see that many immigrations are coming with means to invest and own their own home and are not dependent on social housing in any way.

We don't need the global wealthy using Quebec's scheme as a backdoor to gobble up real estate in other provinces.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yeah, you can never time anything. I see people on social media making fun of $1M condos that aren't selling. Meanwhile these people made fun of the same ones 10 years ago at $500k. The people who bought then who are selling might have to selling for a mere $950k.

Like my mom said to me as a kid, "the world population is increasing rapidly, and yet this planet only has a constant amount of land area." Really makes one wonder why people just don't get it.

[jamincan]

Originally Posted by Vin

Like my mom said to me as a kid, "the world population is increasing rapidly, and yet this planet only has a constant amount of land area." Really makes one wonder why people just don't get it.

• most people have trouble comprehending very large quantities and therefore use infinity as a rough approximation
• most people have financial incentives to treat the world as a limitless resource

[esquire]

^ I can appreciate that land is a scarce resource in Hong Kong or Singapore. But can anyone honestly say that land is that scarce in Canada outside of maybe two large metros? I have to drive literally six hours to get to the nearest significant Canadian city.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I can appreciate that land is a scarce resource in Hong Kong or Singapore. But can anyone honestly say that land is that scarce in Canada outside of maybe two large metros? I have to drive literally six hours to get to the nearest significant Canadian city.

Even MetroVancouver could solve their land shortage easily by abolishing the Agricultural Land Reserve.

[SignalHillHiker]

For just $1.15M you can own an 1880s home in beautiful Churchill Park with four huge bay windows. That face right into the side of the neighbour lol

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Even MetroVancouver could solve their land shortage easily by abolishing the Agricultural Land Reserve.

Anything to preserve your low density neighbourhoods I guess.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Anything to preserve your low density neighbourhoods I guess.

It's that or the soggy strawberries I guess.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by whatnext

We don't need the global wealthy using Quebec's scheme as a backdoor to gobble up real estate in other provinces.

it's not just wealthy, someone I used to know came to Vancouver using the Quebec program, he came from Korea and the Quebec program was significantly cheaper than coming via the Canadian program.

I was always kinda shocked that people could buy their way into the country but eh. If you have the means and you can move to the country you want to live in it's much quicker than waiting years to get in through immigrating the regular route.

He had money cause the price of the condo he sold in Seoul was very high at the time and that price was able to help him buy something here as Vancouver was still somewhat affordable over 12 years ago. He also said they never had to settle in Quebec they just had to "invest" the money but I don't think they ever did, they did visit Montreal once to see where they had "invested".

I know in Northern BC and Alberta many of the motels and gas stations have been bought and run by Koreans coming to Canada by investment immigration programs.

We had a neighbours here in Coquitlam who sold their house they had lived in for over 30 years for over $4 million, he felt like he won the lottery and moved to the island, is he now the elite wealthy snapping a new home on the island?

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Even MetroVancouver could solve their land shortage easily by abolishing the Agricultural Land Reserve.

Vancouver city could even more easily solve much of it's land shortage by not having a whopping 83% of the city zoned as SFH...........the highest rate of any major city in the country.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Vancouver city could even more easily solve much of it's land shortage by not having a whopping 83% of the city zoned as SFH...........the highest rate of any major city in the country.

Apples to Oranges. Look at the geographic size of the City of Vancouver compared to Toronto or Calgary. Amalgamate MetroVancouver and then make the comparison.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Apples to Oranges. Look at the geographic size of the City of Vancouver compared to Toronto or Calgary. Amalgamate MetroVancouver and then make the comparison.

Then it would be even higher? Your NIMBY colors are showing again.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Then it would be even higher? Your NIMBY colors are showing again.

ORLY?

New Westminster eclipses Toronto, Montreal for population density in 2021 census
With more than 5,000 people per square kilometre, New West is the second most densely populated urban centre in Canada
Julie MacLellan
Feb 9, 2022 10:31 AM

New Westminster is the second most densely populated urban area in Canada, according to just-released 2021 census data.Lisa King
New Westminster's population density has crept up past 5,000 people per square kilometre – eclipsing both Toronto and Montreal and second only to Vancouver among the most dense urban areas in Canada.

That finding was part of 2021 census data released today by Statistics Canada.

With a population of 78,916 and a land area of just 15.62 square kilometres, New West now has 5,052.4 people per square kilometre...

https://www.newwestrecord.ca/local-news/...opulation-density-in-2021-census-5044437