[Saint John] Uptown Thread

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

What's wrong with the industrial wasteland across from the current South End school? Between St. James and Queen.

That would be a question for the province however the green space provided at this location is clearly a bonus. If the school brings on the economic benefits that proponents have touted then that industrial wasteland could very well turn into a nice residential block.

[NewIreland]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

That would be a question for the province however the green space provided at this location is clearly a bonus. If the school brings on the economic benefits that proponents have touted then that industrial wasteland could very well turn into a nice residential block.

Anywhere on Broadview would be fine... tons of green space. Trying to piggyback on what is supposed to be public green space is cheap and indicative of a government which doesn't really care about this project. Just build it... and make it cheap.

[ColSJ]

Originally Posted by NewIreland

Anywhere on Broadview would be fine... tons of green space. Trying to piggyback on what is supposed to be public green space is cheap and indicative of a government which doesn't really care about this project. Just build it... and make it cheap.

I think other aspects came into play such accessibility to the community. St James is more centrally located. Broadview would require kids crossing Broad Street which acts like a south end throughway.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by ColSJ

I think other aspects came into play such accessibility to the community. St James is more centrally located. Broadview would require kids crossing Broad Street which acts like a south end throughway.

That would be easy to change though, the road could be narrowed and/or add more curb bumps when they rebuild it to incorporate the future phase of Harbour Passage. All that is to say the school location will be good no matter where it is, because the neighbourhood and the city have been advocating for a new South End school for almost 20 years now, arguing how important it will be for the residential future of the peninsula. I agree completely, and to get a new urban school in NB is practically a miracle given the province’s track record over the past half century. This will be huge for the city, I have no doubt

[adamuptownsj]

Market consultations off to a dismal start before they even begin. Apparently the 'generic high ceiling food court' is what the consultants are aiming at.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-market-plan-1.6418601

Apparently we should look to the 'stunning' Halifax Central Library for architectural inspiration. Absolutely brutal. White paint and primary colour accents. Nothing eclectic. Weird lighting.

"It may be time to incorporate contemporary elements, he suggested, to reflect newer trends — including demographics, as well as accessibility, equity, diversity and inclusivity." what does this even mean? It's a 150 year old building and an architectural gem. What are they going to do to it?

I'm not Mr. Negative or anything- I'm genuinely curious why they want to copy trendy stuff in big cities instead of, you know, actually sourcing more tenants, expanding hours, etc... the things people want? I've been in there 3-5 times a week since I was an infant. It needs updates. It doesn't need what's being proposed.

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Market consultations off to a dismal start before they even begin. Apparently the 'generic high ceiling food court' is what the consultants are aiming at.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/saint-john-market-plan-1.6418601

Apparently we should look to the 'stunning' Halifax Central Library for architectural inspiration. Absolutely brutal. White paint and primary colour accents. Nothing eclectic. Weird lighting.

"It may be time to incorporate contemporary elements, he suggested, to reflect newer trends — including demographics, as well as accessibility, equity, diversity and inclusivity." what does this even mean? It's a 150 year old building and an architectural gem. What are they going to do to it?

I'm not Mr. Negative or anything- I'm genuinely curious why they want to copy trendy stuff in big cities instead of, you know, actually sourcing more tenants, expanding hours, etc... the things people want? I've been in there 3-5 times a week since I was an infant. It needs updates. It doesn't need what's being proposed.

As probably one of the more recent movers to Saint John (summer 2019), why the heck are they trying to modernize the oldest market running in Canada? I don't go to the Coliseum in Rome an expect it to look like their Olympic stadium to watch AS Roma play a game of footy because it's still in the "shell" of the building. Nor do I want to go Easter Island and see the upgraded rocks with emojis on them.

I'm all for some upgrades to keeping the building structurally sound and maybe changing the layout a little bit. But let's not go too far away from history for the sake of the modern world.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

I'm all for some upgrades to keeping the building structurally sound and maybe changing the layout a little bit. But let's not go too far away from history for the sake of the modern world.

Agreed, I read that piece as well and thought "hell no". Yes, maybe making some cool dining options but the heritage aspect and architecture needs to be maintained. That is the draw for tourists.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

As probably one of the more recent movers to Saint John (summer 2019), why the heck are they trying to modernize the oldest market running in Canada? I don't go to the Coliseum in Rome an expect it to look like their Olympic stadium to watch AS Roma play a game of footy because it's still in the "shell" of the building. Nor do I want to go Easter Island and see the upgraded rocks with emojis on them.

I'm all for some upgrades to keeping the building structurally sound and maybe changing the layout a little bit. But let's not go too far away from history for the sake of the modern world.

I think it will be more of an evolution than revolution. Curious to see renderings

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I think it will be more of an evolution than revolution. Curious to see renderings

I'm not. Their main inspiration is a bunch of glass boxes piled on top of each other with a sterile white-with-random-coloured-panels interior. But it's highly awarded!!!

The city needs to stop being bilked by 'consultants' who charge five or six figures to basically ctrl+f4 the same rootless concepts they've delivered a million times already, that no one particularly likes.

Eliminate the middle aisle, widen the side aisles accordingly, add a proper row of stalls down the middle. Lower rents to reduce vacancy with a preference against knicknack stores or whatever. Extend business hours to seven or eight. Improve seating and heating in the atrium. There. Market 'fixed'. I'm a nice guy so let's say $5,000 for this.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I'm not. Their main inspiration is a bunch of glass boxes piled on top of each other with a sterile white-with-random-coloured-panels interior. But it's highly awarded!!!

The city needs to stop being bilked by 'consultants' who charge five or six figures to basically ctrl+f4 the same rootless concepts they've delivered a million times already, that no one particularly likes.

Eliminate the middle aisle, widen the side aisles accordingly, add a proper row of stalls down the middle. Lower rents to reduce vacancy with a preference against knicknack stores or whatever. Extend business hours to seven or eight. Improve seating and heating in the atrium. There. Market 'fixed'. I'm a nice guy so let's say $5,000 for this.

Ah but who would ever forget the consultants that wanted to rebrand Uptown to “downtown” and the Reversing Falls to the “Fundy Vortex”

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I'm not. Their main inspiration is a bunch of glass boxes piled on top of each other with a sterile white-with-random-coloured-panels interior. But it's highly awarded!!!

The city needs to stop being bilked by 'consultants' who charge five or six figures to basically ctrl+f4 the same rootless concepts they've delivered a million times already, that no one particularly likes.

Eliminate the middle aisle, widen the side aisles accordingly, add a proper row of stalls down the middle. Lower rents to reduce vacancy with a preference against knicknack stores or whatever. Extend business hours to seven or eight. Improve seating and heating in the atrium. There. Market 'fixed'. I'm a nice guy so let's say $5,000 for this.

I agree on the hours thing.
Why is it not open to at least 7:30pm on Sea Dogs game days? I normally park near the market and sometimes would like to grab soda to take with me or even a bite to eat. Plus with the underground pedway that connects RIGHT to the arena. Especially in winter time, I'd rather walk the pedway than deal with a very windy,snowy,rainy day.

I know post Covid games aren't overflowing but if it was marketed as on game nights and any event nights its open till 1 hour past "curtain, puck drop, tip of etc". would improve things or add more business.

[Fischbob]

City Market strategy should focus less on "trendiness" and more on fundamentals, IMO. It also needs to decisively address the Market's current identity crisis - one part fresh local food market, one part office worker lunch stop, one part tourist market.

Hopefully the finalized plan prioritizes that first role. If we're going to draw inspiration from anywhere, please can the shortlist include Montreal's public markets or the St. Lawrence Market in Toronto? I would like to see the City Market become a SJ-scaled Jean-Talon or Atwater and not so much of a mini Quincy Market.

[thefishingnut]

The market has certainly lost its mojo. As I no longer work in the core, I'm rarely there, and even then it is more of a walk through to see what is left. My wife looked at setting up a food business there, and the up front costs were very high (ventilation), and the hours quite punishing as there was an expectation to be there as long as the market is open irregardless of whether you would likely have customers for your business.

We have a couple of stalls at the Dieppe market (Saturdays 8 to 1), and there is a ton of people, hordes of small booths, and a real energy to the day. That's hard to do over the long hours the City Market has, but it's been empty and lifeless the few times I've been in over the past 5 years. And getting worse.

I'd like to see it become a market. Again. It's just a bunch of permanent booths, many of which sell trinkets to tourists so have zero interest to locals. There is no (as far as I can tell) nimbleness to have farmers produce come in, fishermen to come in during season, food vendors to come in on short term and even daily stays. Artists and craftspeople to jump in on a seasonal basis. So have a setup which permits vendors to jump right in at minimal cost and set up. Give people a reason to go to the market, because there might be something new for them to try out.

I love the market, hopefully return of tourists, cruise passengers, and some office staff will boost the energy by itself. But it sure is floundering right now.

[Pugsley]

I watched the news coverage tonight and I feel somewhat more comfortable with what they are focused on...I think. The purpose I think is to build a strategy for the "role" of the market and that would lead to the overall design. The reality is, as many have already posted, the current market doesn't really serve the community. It is literally a Sobeys produce market down the centre, dotted with some tourist crap, and then a mish-mash of food vendors of varying qualities along the sides open at different times of the day.

If anyone responsible for the final strategy actually reads these posts, I'd like to suggest they look at Ferry Terminal Market in San Francisco, where you have a mall of local food artisans on display where one can shop, eat, and congregate. I think they could accomplish this with the City Market but I'd also hope that the iconic interior is preserved while doing it. Essentially, make it a destination for artisan food and the community without destroying the heritage architecture.

[JakeNB]

Story in yesterday's TJ re $39.2M in building permits issued in the first quarter of 2022. Interesting that the three high-value projects (totalling approx $34M are all outside the uptown area. Also notable that 99 King is not on this list.

[homebody]

Originally Posted by JakeNB

Story in yesterday's TJ re $39.2M in building permits issued in the first quarter of 2022. Interesting that the three high-value projects (totalling approx $34M are all outside the uptown area. Also notable that 99 King is not on this list.

Maybe next month. Hopefully! I don’t know which is worse the big hole in the ground or the building that was there before the hole :shrug.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by homebody

Maybe next month. Hopefully! I don’t know which is worse the big hole in the ground or the building that was there before the hole :shrug.

Building this year or not, they need to clean the site up before cruise ship season. The top of King looks like a war zone. Get a permanent fence in along the property line if nothing is happening until 2023.

[gtsoc]

Wayne Long with a bit of a teaser this morning...

I’ve often said Saint John has a history that’s nationally significant. It’s a history we should celebrate, honour, and embrace!
Stay tuned this week as we will make a significant new announcement…..
Details to come!

[bridgeoftea]

Originally Posted by gtsoc

Wayne Long with a bit of a teaser this morning...

Something to do with Fort Latour?

[gtsoc]

Announced in the TJ this morning ... the 2022 Memorial Cup organizing committee will be building a permanent ball hockey arena next to the skateboard park. I would assume the small parking lots that are currently there will become non-existent. The construction is expected to cost upwards of $550,000 and $6-$8,000 to operate annually.