Austin | 318 Colorado | ~450 Feet | 40 Floors | Proposed

[Jdawgboy]

...

[ahealy]

I'm sure lonewolf is a fine guy and all, but that's a very verrrry unpopular opinion. Razing stuff like that in the city lowers us into very bland anywhere USA league.

[migol24]

Originally Posted by ahealy

I'm sure lonewolf is a fine guy and all, but that's a very verrrry unpopular opinion. Razing stuff like that in the city lowers us into very bland anywhere USA league.

Not to mention its effect on tourism. People wouldn't have a reason to come here anymore and I wouldn't blame them.

[The ATX]

My take:

There's not a lot that the HLC can do by itself. From what I have seen in the past, they can postpone/delay their recommendation about a project for around three months; then initiate Historical Zoning. HLC commissioners have indicated in the past that their decision to postpone a recommendation was just to slow down the process knowing that they can't stop it.

It will then go to the PC where there will be a little less support for Historical Zoning. But regardless of the HLC and PC, it will ultimately be up to the CC since it's a zoning change. The CC will be sympathetic to the LGBTQ community. The significance of whatever is being planned for the site may influence the final CC vote. A 40-story apartment tower would have zero support. A very large project with an exceptional amount of community benefits may get some CC support.

Since the bars are not likely to be the property owners, that will be a big negative in obtaining Historic Zoning. If the CC votes for Historical Zoning, a lawsuit against the City by the property owner(s) seems likely. But I'm not a lawyer

[sjk]

Both OCH and Rain made posts to Facebook about this:

Rain:
"To all of our 4th St family, there seems to be some inaccurate information out there. Rain on 4th is NOT included in any proposed demolition permit or historical review. We aren’t going anywhere and will continue to be a safe space for the community for many years to come!"

OCH:
"Just to be clear to all those whom are concerned: Oilcan Harry’s has a very long term lease and will continue to be on 4th street for many many years to come. Austin is changing, but there are ways change can happen which allows community centers and businesses like ours to remain where they are. We support that kind of compromise and we feel positive about the conversations we’re having with our landlord."

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by sjk

OCH:
"Just to be clear to all those whom are concerned: Oilcan Harry’s has a very long term lease and will continue to be on 4th street for many many years to come. Austin is changing, but there are ways change can happen which allows community centers and businesses like ours to remain where they are. We support that kind of compromise and we feel positive about the conversations we’re having with our landlord."

Sounds like OCH might be incorporated into whatever might be happening here? My original thought was that, if the developers are smart, they'll make a guarantee to include bar/retail space that is dedicated to the gay community.

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by paul78701

Sounds like OCH might be incorporated into whatever might be happening here? My original thought was that, if the developers are smart, they'll make a guarantee to include bar/retail space that is dedicated to the gay community.

Well, that's a relief lol.

[The ATX]

Correct. The address range for Demo is 201 to 213 W. 4th. It's not the entire block.

[Jdawgboy]

I still feel a little uneasy... Wasn't the Container Bar and Bungalow originally going to be incorporated into the Modern Austin Tower, then bit by bit they changed their plans to the point where neither will exist..

Totally different situation to the much longer history of OCH and the significance to that stretch of 4th is, but my point is I don't trust what developers say early in the development stages because they tend to change things due to cost and whatnot.

Still I'm glad we have a better understanding than we did yesterday.

[paul78701]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

I still feel a little uneasy... Wasn't the Container Bar and Bungalow originally going to be incorporated into the Modern Austin Tower, then bit by bit they changed their plans to the point where neither will exist..

Totally different situation to the much longer history of OCH and the significance to that stretch of 4th is, but my point is I don't trust what developers say early in the development stages because they tend to change things due to cost and whatnot.

Still I'm glad we have a better understanding than we did yesterday.

Bridget Dunlap, who owned/created Container Bar, instead agreed to put a live music venue in the basement of the Modern. Apparently, according to her, it will not be like anything else that exists in the city. I'm not sure what that could be exactly, but it sounds like it could be something unique and more interesting than Container Bar. (I'd rather have a live music venue than Container Bar)

WRT Bungalow, the developers appeared to have good intentions, but I'm not sure the idea of moving that entire house into the second floor of the building was ever really feasible.

[AusTex]

Originally Posted by The ATX

Correct. The address range for Demo is 201 to 213 W. 4th. It's not the entire block.

In my opinion any demo on this block, from alley to alley, is unacceptable.

This is the heart and soul of the Warehouse District which is quickly disappearing for Austin. This is Iconic, Quintessential and Historic Austin. It also happens to be the area the LGBQ... has visibly and peacefully mixed with all other groups in the city for decades. This is last intact block of the Warehouse District. Just preserving the facades is not enough. Alley to alley preservation of 4th Street between Colorado and Lavaca is essential.

I have been a skyscraper fan since 1973 when the 792' IDS Tower was built in my hometown of Minneapolis. For Austin I say build them and build them tall, however the Down Town of The City of Austin is at a critical point right now. Where do we preserve low rise buildings as entertainment venues which drive Austin's burgeoning nightlife scene. Certainly East 6th Street and this one block of 4th Street deserve preservation. Perhaps several blocks of West 6th Street need to be and Entertainment District as well. CC needs to act now before it is too late to secure a lasting nightlife scene in Austin. Highrise zoning will never allow it, but will surely kill it!

[427MM]

Trying to imagine our city if we'd legalize the types of buildings that today we've made illegal to build and hope to keep existing ones.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by AusTex

In my opinion any demo on this block, from alley to alley, is unacceptable.

This is the heart and soul of the Warehouse District which is quickly disappearing for Austin. This is Iconic, Quintessential and Historic Austin. It also happens to be the area the LGBQ... has visibly and peacefully mixed with all other groups in the city for decades. This is last intact block of the Warehouse District. Just preserving the facades is not enough. Alley to alley preservation of 4th Street between Colorado and Lavaca is essential.

I have been a skyscraper fan since 1973 when the 792' IDS Tower was built in my hometown of Minneapolis. For Austin I say build them and build them tall, however the Down Town of The City of Austin is at a critical point right now. Where do we preserve low rise buildings as entertainment venues which drive Austin's burgeoning nightlife scene. Certainly East 6th Street and this one block of 4th Street deserve preservation. Perhaps several blocks of West 6th Street need to be and Entertainment District as well. CC needs to act now before it is too late to secure a lasting nightlife scene in Austin. Highrise zoning will never allow it, but will surely kill it!

I agree 100%

[paul78701]

Austin Historic Landmark committee discussing item on 'total demolition' of 4th Street building façades
https://www.kvue.com/article/money/e...b-3df565eaac0b

Looks like this is intended to be a Hanover residential project.

[The ATX]

We can guess what the project will be like with Hanover being the developer. When I close my eyes I see a 44-story apartment building that looks like their other two that are U/C.

[Echostatic]

Losing the core of 4th street for a Hanover... ehh... If it has better street level presence than their other towers, and it's taller, then I'm all for it. But just another copy of HRS or HBS would be pretty lame.

[ahealy]

Originally Posted by The ATX

We can guess what the project will be like with Hanover being the developer. When I close my eyes I see a 44-story apartment building that looks like their other two that are U/C.

Brought to you by CTRL C / CTRL V

[chundercracker]

I've lived downtown for 15 years and frankly we don't really need any more wellness eateries, upscale Italian and overpriced douchey coffee joints. For a city that's supposed to be "creative", the homogeneity of its retail presence is depressing and impractical for downtown residents.

Preserving an old building isn't as essential as capturing the vibe of what was once there before. While places like 6th are in shambles, I'll take that any day over the manufactured "clean luxury" bullshit like the Domain.

[Echostatic]

Perhaps time to start a thread for this project specifically?

https://austin.towers.net/west-fourt...oldest-gay-bar

I'm glad to see they're keeping a spot for Oilcan Harry's on the ground floor and bringing the facades closer to their original warehouse state. The relative lack of height is disappointing, but 400 units is nothing to sneeze at.

[paul78701]

Reimagining 4th Street? What changes could be on deck for Austin’s Warehouse District:
https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aust...ouse-district/

The new plan for the proposed 400-unit apartment complex would also guarantee a lease to the Oilcan Harry’s owner for the next 25 years.

“We’re working with him to make sure that it’s a better space with more outdoor space than he has today. And with, you know, as much square footage or more than what he has today,” Ott said.