YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by zahav

YUL
INT - 18
US - 3

Nice compilation. YUL is 19, not counting CA. You probably forgot or left out PJ, which is a non-Canadian airline.

A bit relevant to the discussion as well, especially what I bolded below, Air Canada had it's Investor Day 2022 presentation on March 30th. Some interesting pages in there.

https://aircanada.investorroom.com/download/2022+Investor+Day+-+English+-+FINAL-web.pdf

Page 33. Number of dom/intl/transborder destinations served at each of the 4 hubs, and TATL hub ranking.

Page 34. Potential new destinations (some of these on the A321XLR). Hard to make out, but you can see YVR-SIN, YYZ-IST/ARN/LOS/DSS/BLR, YUL-TLS, YHZ-FRA. Some others that aren't too visible as well. Also noticed YVR-MEL seems to be completely removed from the routes, which isn't a good sign for it to return, as other routes that haven't operated for 2 years+ now are still on there. (ex. YUL-NRT/PVG)

Page 37. A321XLR potential destinations. YUL-DSS, YYZ-ARN/BER/PRG, YHZ-FRA, among the most interesting. Nothing intercontinental planned out of the west coast for now. YVR-EWR seems to be on there though.

Page 38. Map of the fastest growing US markets AC wants to focus on, including SEA, SFO, DEN, MIA, AUS, BNA.

Page 39. Map of all the 6th freedom opportunities out of YYZ/YUL from the US to Transatlantic.

A lot of other insightful information in there.

Enjoy.

[zahav]

YYZ, YVR, and YUL clearly have the edge when it comes to foreign carriers, but it's kind of cool that YYC is the first real example of a fortress hub in Canada with WS. It isn't just domestic anymore, now their international and transborder is really dominated by WS. And I feel like it's only going to increase as other airlines let them take their share, it's not worth the fight for most airlines to battle it out and kill their profit, they are just letting WS sweep. Whereas at YYZ, YVR, and YUL, foreign airlines are clearly staking their claim and not backing down on foreign routes

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by zahav

And then starting May 31st, TK will upgauge YVR to the 77W, the largest in their fleet.

You can see how the "big four" doesn't extend to an international scale. I don't think YVR should be embarassed by its service level, as much as the doom and gloom naysayers on this forum want to believe

Originally Posted by zahav

YYZ, YVR, and YUL clearly have the edge when it comes to foreign carriers, but it's kind of cool that YYC is the first real example of a fortress hub in Canada with WS. It isn't just domestic anymore, now their international and transborder is really dominated by WS. And I feel like it's only going to increase as other airlines let them take their share, it's not worth the fight for most airlines to battle it out and kill their profit, they are just letting WS sweep. Whereas at YYZ, YVR, and YUL, foreign airlines are clearly staking their claim and not backing down on foreign routes

YVR definitely performs very well - especially based on its geographic disadvantaged location in regards to trans Atlantic. Also, a very small city in relatives terms. Don’t understand the doom and gloom naysayers either. They haven’t changed and there’s a new one that sounds remarkably the same as another frequent poster obsessed with SEA? Hmmm

Good news about TK as well - they must be doing ok

O&D explains a lot as to why there is much more foreign airline interest in YVR versus YYC. As we all know YYC depends much more on connecting traffic hence why it’s more difficult for foreign carriers to get a foothold there. They’ve lost quite a few long haul carriers and routes and it really is only Westjet that is growing there. As Westjet grows further there it will become even more difficult for non Canadian carriers to make it work there. Even Air Canada has just obliterated their transborder network there - down to only two daily mainline flights and one daily Express. That may be temporary but goes against what AC is doing elsewhere.
As for Eastern Canada - a completely different kettle of fish compared to YVR.

Also prudent you haven’t included the Chinese carriers as still a mystery of who and when will return!
Good analysis though

[zahav]

Thanks Johnny, ya I don't like seeing people so negative and doomsday about the airport. They are certainly doing the best they can given the circumstances, and things will pick up. Now I wish more than ever there was a South America connection, would really be a score.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by zahav

Thanks Johnny, ya I don't like seeing people so negative and doomsday about the airport. They are certainly doing the best they can given the circumstances, and things will pick up. Now I wish more than ever there was a South America connection, would really be a score.

Do you think Air Canada will fly the route or would we see LATAM or Avianca fly up here instead ?

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

A bit relevant to the discussion as well, especially what I bolded below, Air Canada had it's Investor Day 2022 presentation on March 30th. Some interesting pages in there.

https://aircanada.investorroom.com/download/2022+Investor+Day+-+English+-+FINAL-web.pdf

Looks like YVR to KIX is toast!!!

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Looks like YVR to KIX is toast!!!

That's really such a shame that its not on the docket anymore, but not surprised given the entry restrictions in Japan with still no clear path for tourism at time of writing.

Also interesting for aviation related news (Not YVR related), is on page 65 where they lay out the upcoming dedicated cargo routes for the new cargo freighters. They'll be based out of YYZ exclusively it seems starting in May, with routes down heading to South America and Europe.

[hehehe]

AC seems to be going from 7xweekly SYD to 10xweekly from June 6.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by hehehe

AC seems to be going from 7xweekly SYD to 10xweekly from June 6.

They definitely are! Seasonal increase June - September

YVR continues to recover nicely. The South Pacific part of Asia Pacific seems to be doing relatively well.

Back to those with the doom and gloom approach… let’s not forget that for Canadian airports’ international pax stats. Other Canadian airports have a much much higher percentage of international numbers to sun destinations. Obviously people have the need to flee 30 below temperatures I suppose.
When people Downunder think Victoria (Australia’s VIC) gets cold I just laugh and say you have NO idea what cold really is. Walk into a deep freezer and then drop the temperature another 20 degrees will give you an idea haha

[nname]

So they're reusing flight numbers from the YVR-MEL route.

Interesting that they prefer more flights on SYD rather than boosting BNE to daily, or restarting MEL. The extra SYD flight will operate on the days when BNE is not operating.

[ninjakafi_81]

It looks like Air Canada is suspending its Vancouver - Delhi route from June 1st to September 5th.

[nname]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

It looks like Air Canada is suspending its Vancouver - Delhi route from June 1st to September 5th.

So as it turns out, AC simply reallocate the resource from DEL to SYD.

Just noticed the extra SYD flight will be spending more than 7 hours at SYD, so I wonder if there's anything planned there. 7 hours is more than enough time to fly to MEL and back... or they just simply delay the return flight so it would be easier to make connection?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

It looks like Air Canada is suspending its Vancouver - Delhi route from June 1st to September 5th.

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220406-acns22del

Air Canada as of Wednesday (06APR22) mid-day filed service adjustment for India, between 01JUN22 and 05SEP22 (Canada departure). Latest adjustment as follows.

Montreal – Delhi 777-200LR continues operating 3 weekly, replacing 787-9
Toronto – Delhi 777-200LR continues operating, replacing 787-9. Service reduces from 10 to 7 weekly
Vancouver – Delhi 1 daily 787-9 service removed, reservation not available

Schedule on/after 06SEP22 remains pending, with changes expected in the next few weeks.

Obviously there is lower demand during the summer months, and AC feels they can funnel the traffic through it's other 2 hubs.

However, this cut seems like a direct casualty of the Russian airspace closure. Add in the higher price of fuel, and this is what you get.

I did say a month and a half ago that YVR was going to be a tough go with the Russian airspace closure, and that YUL/YYZ are better placed to operate to DEL with those restrictions. I also foresaw the 77Ls operating to DEL, just from the wrong hub.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9549292&postcount=12885

If such a scenario were to happen, YUL is best placed to limit the distance of the flight. YYZ is second. YVR is a tough go. Fuel stops will be the name of the game, unless they put in seat restrictions on the flights. Mind you, those 77L's would come in handy on YVR-DEL in such a scenario.

Originally Posted by nname

So as it turns out, AC simply reallocate the resource from DEL to SYD.

Just noticed the extra SYD flight will be spending more than 7 hours at SYD, so I wonder if there's anything planned there. 7 hours is more than enough time to fly to MEL and back... or they just simply delay the return flight so it would be easier to make connection?

I doubt they will do a SYD-MEL-SYD run. Your latter explanation is more likely. AC cant sell local seats on SYD-MEL-SYD, as it would be cabotage, so they'd be flying a half empty plane both ways. Far from ideal, especially with the current price of fuel.

[jollyburger]

From AC:

“The route is operationally constrained because of extended flying times and a re-fueling stop that is required due to the current flight paths taken to go around Russian and Ukraine airspace,” Air Canada said.

Summer wind and forecast weather conditions in South Asia were also cited as contributing factors.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8740995/yvr-dehli-route-paused-air-canada/

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

From AC:



https://globalnews.ca/news/8740995/yvr-dehli-route-paused-air-canada/

^ There you go.

Edit: Here is AC's press release.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2022/vancouver-delhi.html#/

[s211]

I know that fares have been on the rise but wow. Last fall, I booked Vancouver - New York business class for about $1,750. Air Canada just announced a sale () and the same ticket is now around $3,500 ON SALE???

I know they're trying to make up for huge losses but at that rarified pricing level, it just might make me fly less.

[Denscity]

Why would you fly all the way to Toronto or Montreal to get to DEL if AI gives you non stop from Vancouver?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Why would you fly all the way to Toronto or Montreal to get to DEL if AI gives you non stop from Vancouver?

1. If you want to fly out on a MO, TU, TH or SA.
2. If a one stop is cheaper than the non stop.
3. If you don't want to fly AI.

Originally Posted by s211

I know that fares have been on the rise but wow. Last fall, I booked Vancouver - New York business class for about $1,750. Air Canada just announced a sale () and the same ticket is now around $3,500 ON SALE???

I know they're trying to make up for huge losses but at that rarified pricing level, it just might make me fly less.

Last year's price was a steal. This year's price is probably more in line with what it should be.

[Denscity]

If I didn't want nonstop for some reason I'd rather stop in Asia if possible than Eastern Canada.

[micmiko]

Originally Posted by Denscity

If I didn't want nonstop for some reason I'd rather stop in Asia if possible than Eastern Canada.

Exactly. One would have to be an idiot to want to fly out from Eastern Canada for this route. Transfers out of ICN or NRT on other *A or even OW or Skyteam airlines would be much more preferable.