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  #16021  
Old Posted Apr 6, 2022, 5:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Also, they've dumped a lot of new CRUs underneath new social housing along East Hastings that will sit empty for years which might inflate the numbers.

I wonder if those shops along 800 East Hastings are paying market rates.
There are only three projects which have some social housing completed on East Hastings in the past ten years. There's one that's both market rental and non-market that Wall Financial built, at Gore. There's a new LifeLabs in one retail unit, but the others are vacant. There's a mixed low end of market/shelter rate building at 41 E Hastings, that has also never had tenants in the retail units. And there's the new Strathcona library under the YWCA family non-market housing near Heatley. There are two more buildings under construction, but they are planned to both have medical services on the main floor.

I'm sure Lowtide look for market rents. They have some fairly high end tenants like Flax Home and CF Interiors, as well as the new Flourist Bakery. It's several blocks east of the 'street activity'.
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  #16022  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2022, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
It boggles one's mind who on earth came up with the idea if putting them there, as those spaces will never see proper businesses lease the space.
You can thank an urban planner. Every building should be mixed-use, in their eyes. The storied I could tell about nonsensical mandatory retail imperatives.

And yet even the denizen of urban orthodoxy, the ULI, published an op-ed a few years ago that poured cold water on those planners.
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  #16023  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2022, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by s211 View Post
You can thank an urban planner. Every building should be mixed-use, in their eyes. The storied I could tell about nonsensical mandatory retail imperatives.

And yet even the denizen of urban orthodoxy, the ULI, published an op-ed a few years ago that poured cold water on those planners.
Urban planners clearly don't think every building should be mixed use. That's Vin, who constantly complains whenever there's an all-residential building where he thinks there should be more retail required.

In the specific example of East Hastings Street, which was the quoted example, what other uses do you think should be required on the main floor of new buildings? Bearing in mind that retail, office, service or social service uses are all already permitted to locate in those spaces?
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  #16024  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2022, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
They built CRUs to serve an entirely new community on campus. Wesbrook alone was only 112,000 square feet of commercial. Except for a government liquor store and maybe the Save-On the retail mix isn't that superior in any way except for it being housed in newer buildings.
Yeah, and yet it is vibrant at Wesbrook with no empty boarded-up shops. 10th feels like you can see tumbleweeds rolling by now and then. Clearly retail in a node with large anchor-stores and surrounded by high-density homes, works.

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Originally Posted by Changing City View Post
Urban planners clearly don't think every building should be mixed use. That's Vin, who constantly complains whenever there's an all-residential building where he thinks there should be more retail required.

In the specific example of East Hastings Street, which was the quoted example, what other uses do you think should be required on the main floor of new buildings? Bearing in mind that retail, office, service or social service uses are all already permitted to locate in those spaces?
Not really, except in your archaic mind.

Funny that you are more open to retail in a rundown area where no business owners in their right mind would run a shop. I suppose they serve as good spots for "graffiti artists" with the boarded up windows.
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  #16025  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2022, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Vin View Post
Funny that you are more open to retail in a rundown area where no business owners in their right mind would run a shop. I suppose they serve as good spots for "graffiti artists" with the boarded up windows.
I didn't suggest I was more, or less open minded about retail in any particular location. In the past I've explained why your obsession with having new retail nodes ignores the locations that retail has been located for decades, and that we seem to have as much retail as we need for the demand generated by the existing population. We might even find we have too much as some retail seems to be shifting from retail stores to online commerce.

I asked s211, and I'll ask you the same thing, what uses should be on the main floor of new buildings on East Hastings other than retail, office, service or social service uses?
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  #16026  
Old Posted Apr 7, 2022, 11:42 PM
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Then again, absolutely nobody would want to live on street level in DTES, so the only other option to empty commercial space would be to build parking levels above ground like in Coquitlam, although for a totally different reason. It could also save on cost although I don't know how much parking any of these developments in that warzone are having.
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  #16027  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2022, 2:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
Then again, absolutely nobody would want to live on street level in DTES, so the only other option to empty commercial space would be to build parking levels above ground like in Coquitlam, although for a totally different reason. It could also save on cost although I don't know how much parking any of these developments in that warzone are having.
Have we given up on the DTES so much that we are considering constructing buildings with a useful life of 50 to 100 years that would make the streetscape incredibly depressing? I know the DTES has issues, but the proximity of it to some incredibly vibrant downtown neighborhoods and the region's job centre makes me think it will eventually be turned around.
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  #16028  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2022, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by FarmerHaight View Post
Have we given up on the DTES so much that we are considering constructing buildings with a useful life of 50 to 100 years that would make the streetscape incredibly depressing? I know the DTES has issues, but the proximity of it to some incredibly vibrant downtown neighborhoods and the region's job centre makes me think it will eventually be turned around.
I just find that so hard to imagine as much as I would wish it. It's been terrible at the street level since I immigrated more than three decades ago and it's only gotten worse. We'd need a wholesale change of government at the very least at the municipal level to even begin putting this area back on track. Aside from fancy restaurants looking for a very gritty neighborhood and cheap rent who'd open up here in a free market?
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  #16029  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2022, 8:41 PM
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I just find that so hard to imagine as much as I would wish it. It's been terrible at the street level since I immigrated more than three decades ago and it's only gotten worse. We'd need a wholesale change of government at the very least at the municipal level to even begin putting this area back on track. Aside from fancy restaurants looking for a very gritty neighborhood and cheap rent who'd open up here in a free market?
I find it spectacularly pollyanna-ish that anybody would think that the DTES will ever meaningfully turn around. It's been a crapshow for at least 40+ years now. Back in the 80s, I had a university course that included a self-guided tour through the DTES and it was already a very very sad place.

Add to that: almost all bureaucracies are now so ideologically-driven to the left that the only safe investment in the DTES these days is the poverty industry.
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  #16030  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2022, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by svlt View Post
I just find that so hard to imagine as much as I would wish it. It's been terrible at the street level since I immigrated more than three decades ago and it's only gotten worse. We'd need a wholesale change of government at the very least at the municipal level to even begin putting this area back on track. Aside from fancy restaurants looking for a very gritty neighborhood and cheap rent who'd open up here in a free market?
Parts of East Hastings are way worse than they used to be. The concentration of poorly housed and homeless using the street as their living room, and the sidewalk is very intimidating to a lot of people. The impact of artificial opioids and other drugs on many of those people has become more obvious, and more tragic in the past few years.

But it may not be a totally lost cause. In 2002 Stan Douglas published 'Every Building on 100 West Hastings'. The buildings, many of them heritage structures, were in rough shape. Many were for sale. More were boarded up than in use. Some were squatted, and many were far short of meeting the fire code. Across the street, Woodwards was boarded up.

Private sector developers bought up and transformed almost every building in the block. Businesses have come and gone; some have been victim to bad location choices (the short-lived baby store seemed very out of place), and more recently to covid and changed eating out habits (Noodlebox, for example), but many have survived, and other are moving in.



Woodwards totally transformed the north side, adding the western office of the National Film Board, City employees, a drug store, a supermarket and SFU, as well as hundreds of apartments including 200 non-market units. Further up the street the derelict Ormidale Block was totally rebuilt behind the facade, and has office space and a Kafka's coffee shop.



The Flack Block beyond it had been in a bad state, with stonework hacked off and stucco patches when Salient Group completely renovated it.

To the east on the unit block there's a huge new market, non-market and health centre building being developed on land that Concord owned, and held vacant for many years. It's opposite the Army and Navy where the Cohen family are teaming up with Bosa to develop a rental project on both Hastings and Cordova. Next door the Beacon Hotel has been transformed by BC Housing, and to the east the North Star Rooms, closed for repeated code violations in 1999, and where the back of the buiilding collapsed a few years ago, has been totally rebuilt and reopened by Solterra.



At Pigeon Park to the east Millennium have completed an comprehensive restoration of the Merchant's Bank as office space, and just completed a market rental building next door with some excellent architecture. (It even has curved glazing).



Anthem own the former BC Hydro building across the street, and the retail space where the streetcars used to run into the building is a lighting showroom.

The congregation of 'street users' generally starts at Pigeon Park, and runs for two blocks to Main, and sometimes spills eastwards to Gore. There are two new projects redeveloping old, tired non-market hotels into new non-market housing, and there are two more being developed for the east corners of Gore and Hastings. Those two or three blocks are really what make the difference to the statistics - a lot of closed or boarded store fronts, a handful of dodgy convenience stores, and a few social service centres and offices (Work BC, the Muslim Foodbank, the Salvation Army drop-in, and Insite. That's the block where the Balmoral will be redeveloped, possibly with a private sector partner like Wall Financial.

The activity and the dereliction used to stretch further, and has been concentrated as blocks like the 100 block of West Hastings have 'gentrified' (or normalized). It's not inevitable that the situation will get worse, and there are new developments and initiatives that might make it better. (There's another thread where that's 'debated'). It seems a better idea to have retail / office spaces that could come back to life, like the 100 block of West Hastings, than take a depressive view and condemn it to purgatory (like unwanted parking space).

[images are mine except Stan Douglas on Gabrielle Moser's blog]
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  #16031  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 9:30 AM
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wrong thread
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  #16032  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 7:37 PM
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Not sure if anyone here is old enough to remember how DTES was in the 70s and early 80s, before the idiotic decision to close Riverview and dump all the residents on the street? How was East Hastings back then?

Oh, how compassionate has that decision been and those behind the decision should be held accountable for the 10,000s of deaths on the street in the decades that have followed.

What we should do is spend a billion to fully rebuild Riverview and house all the addicts there. We would save thousands of lives and improve lives of tens of thousands. Use the social housing stock built to house those lower income people that work.
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  #16033  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 7:47 PM
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In other news Top Table/Elisa opened their new butcher shop yesterday finally (i think this would fall under the retail thread... sorry if i'm wrong)! Looks great and brings back some favorites from Canucks marketplace (bake at home truffle chicken!).

It looks like they have a full complement of wine as well. What blows my mind with these stores is that because they are tied to a restaurant they can sell Alcohol without issue. Same with Miku and their store. All things considered the grocery players should be very unhappy that there is this new grey area.

We should at the very least allow Grocery to sell Beer and Wine (like they do in the US and some other provinces) and get over this prohibition-esque business style that our government backed by the BCGEU and the private liquor stores are pushing for. The few stores that sell BC wine only is ridiculous, a full selection should be allowed at the very minimum.
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  #16034  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Klazu View Post
Not sure if anyone here is old enough to remember how DTES was in the 70s and early 80s, before the idiotic decision to close Riverview and dump all the residents on the street? How was East Hastings back then?
It has been skid row since Vancouver was a city.
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  #16035  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 8:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FarmerHaight View Post
Have we given up on the DTES so much that we are considering constructing buildings with a useful life of 50 to 100 years that would make the streetscape incredibly depressing? I know the DTES has issues, but the proximity of it to some incredibly vibrant downtown neighborhoods and the region's job centre makes me think it will eventually be turned around.
Basically, yes.

What more can be done other than forcibly remove or jail law breakers, squatters, vagrants and addicts?

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It has been skid row since Vancouver was a city.
Nope!

Used to look like any other decent Canadian or European cities:
Video Link

Video Link


How this city has fallen since that time....
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  #16036  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 8:55 PM
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yet another new Circle-K going downtown this time at Bidwell St & Davie St

see it here >> https://goo.gl/maps/V1Y2jk7KX2jifHxK6
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  #16037  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 8:59 PM
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Let's take a look at today's DTES (in case some are still in denial):

Video Link
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  #16038  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 9:04 PM
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Another look of Old DTES in 1933:
Video Link


So good parades were held there!
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  #16039  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 9:18 PM
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Let's take a look at today's DTES (in case some are still in denial):

Video Link
I see fully licensed street vendors selling legal items on the street? paying taxes (gst, pst, income tax) and also charging people for the bag ($1 for reusuable) when they vend them items?

I see people exercising their Canadian Rights to do drugs and drink and commit crime in public. (unless you are a working class person then you would get arrested)

what do you see?
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Last edited by hollywoodnorth; Apr 14, 2022 at 10:29 PM.
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  #16040  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2022, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth View Post
yet another new Circle-K going downtown this time at Bidwell St & Davie St

see it here >> https://goo.gl/maps/V1Y2jk7KX2jifHxK6
The one at Georgia & Seymour has a broken window.
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