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  #421  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2022, 3:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
Wasn't Sideshow Harry proposing something similar for the lot at Main and John?

If so, IMO we dodged a bullet.
Not sure a boarded up mound of dirt is much better tbh.. sadly beggers can't be choosers - but at least both have something in common - neither ever get off the ground..
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  #422  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2022, 11:53 AM
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Not sure a boarded up mound of dirt is much better tbh.. sadly beggers can't be choosers - but at least both have something in common - neither ever get off the ground..
I have confidence that something will be built at the Tivoli site, now that an actual developer owns it.

With hopes the same will be true on Main at John. The dirt lot isn't good but at least it's a blank slate. I imagine a new owner and developer will want to put something substantial on that site to offset remediation costs. What I'd actually love to see is the entire block facing from John to Catharine developed together -- that plaza at Bowen does not belong. 33 Bowen and the old buildings along John must stay though, in any scenario.
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  #423  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2022, 3:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ScreamingViking View Post
I have confidence that something will be built at the Tivoli site, now that an actual developer owns it.

With hopes the same will be true on Main at John. The dirt lot isn't good but at least it's a blank slate. I imagine a new owner and developer will want to put something substantial on that site to offset remediation costs. What I'd actually love to see is the entire block facing from John to Catharine developed together -- that plaza at Bowen does not belong. 33 Bowen and the old buildings along John must stay though, in any scenario.
The problem is main and john is contaminated land, being a gas station originally, and noone wants to foot that bill..

at least with tivoli its just that the front entrance collapsed. I would love to see the theatre restored or rebuilt. Honestly when these people whine that it's too far gone I think to myself "people in the 1800s built these with far less budgets than we have now, what are you talking about".
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  #424  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2022, 3:44 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronamut View Post
The problem is main and john is contaminated land, being a gas station originally, and noone wants to foot that bill..

at least with tivoli its just that the front entrance collapsed. I would love to see the theatre restored or rebuilt. Honestly when these people whine that it's too far gone I think to myself "people in the 1800s built these with far less budgets than we have now, what are you talking about".
Remediation has already taken place.
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  #425  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2022, 3:56 AM
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Remediation has already taken place.
I am very interested to see the final result! This city has demolished far too many...

oh hmm I'm assuming you were talking about the theatre, but i suppose you could be referring to ground contamination at main and john too, well either way, all positive signs.
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  #426  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2022, 2:58 PM
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Very interested in the clarification here.

If Main & John has been remediated, perhaps the parcel of land is quite expensive and that's why it's not moving? CBRE has listed this and it's quite an attractive area for development. I'm hoping it's a multi-level Loblaws/LCBO or something (which they could then in turn close the No Frills at Main/Tisdale and sell the land since Choice Properties REIT [Loblaws] owns that plaza).
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  #427  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2022, 4:36 PM
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Originally Posted by craftbeerdad View Post
Very interested in the clarification here.

If Main & John has been remediated, perhaps the parcel of land is quite expensive and that's why it's not moving? CBRE has listed this and it's quite an attractive area for development. I'm hoping it's a multi-level Loblaws/LCBO or something (which they could then in turn close the No Frills at Main/Tisdale and sell the land since Choice Properties REIT [Loblaws] owns that plaza).
Main and John is kind of tiny for a store though, unless it's a small "urban format" version like Longos and Sobeys have in downtown Toronto. Include the land from the plaza at Catharine though, and you're talking about such ideas being more of an opportunity. That No Frills should stay, IMO -- it probably serves many many people in the neighbourhoods east of downtown.

Cobalt plus the next Connaught phases if they ever get going and the developments proposed along Jackson mean the market in the area for such amenities will be big.

Wasn't there at one time a grocery store in the Effort Square complex? (when it was Terminal Towers) Might have been on a basement level?
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  #428  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2022, 5:18 PM
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Wasn't there at one time a grocery store in the Effort Square complex? (when it was Terminal Towers) Might have been on a basement level?
Yes there was one in the basement. I don't remember which chain owned it. It was very small compared by today's standards. There are some variety store that are bigger than this store was.
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  #429  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2022, 6:55 PM
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There was a liquor store in the basement as well.

Last edited by hongo; Apr 1, 2022 at 7:07 PM.
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  #430  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2022, 7:24 PM
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There was a liquor store in the basement as well.
How could I forget that one. It was the first LCBO that I ever bought liquor from! I was 17 and I had really good ID that said I was 18. I bought for all of my friends.
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  #431  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2022, 3:17 AM
bigguy1231 bigguy1231 is offline
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Yes there was one in the basement. I don't remember which chain owned it. It was very small compared by today's standards. There are some variety store that are bigger than this store was.
It was a Loblaws.
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  #432  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2022, 7:30 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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https://beyondjames.com/tivolitheatre22/

An Encore for the Tivoli Theatre

After eighteen years, the Tivoli Theatre located on James Street North may soon see signs of life.

The story of the theatre is almost folklore at this point. Constructed in 1875, the building originally served as a carriage factory. When the factory closed in 1908, an extension was added to convert the building to a theatre space. Popular as a vaudeville house, the theatre spent the majority of the twentieth century as a cinema, briefly being operated by Famous Players. In 1989, the building was owned by the Sniderman family, otherwise known as the owners of Sam the Record Man, and by 1995, the theatre was a venue for live stage shows. However, it started to fall into disrepair and in 2004, was sold to the Canadian Ballet Youth Ensemble for two dollars. By June 2004, a south-facing wall collapsed inside the building, breeching an exterior wall.

Between 2004 and 2014, several businesses attempted to buy the Tivoli, including Supercrawl; but all were denied. During this time period, the building also received at least $395,455 in municipal grants from the City of Hamilton, which were meant to assist in the demolition of the collapsed portion of the building.

In 2014, the Canadian Ballet Youth Ensemble‘s CEO Belma Diamante sold the Tivoli to her husband’s development company, Diamante Holdings, for $900,000. While the building continued to sit in a state of disrepair, Diamante Holdings announced in 2015 that a twenty-two story condo building would be erected on the site. A condition of city council’s approval of the plans was that the theatre would open before the condos. However, after ten years without major repairs, many wondered if the theatre could be restored at all. As late as July 2021, Diamonte Investments was insistent that the condo project was moving forward and that they were seeking a business partner.

Yesterday, a new chapter was written in the Tivoli’s story, as Aventus Development Corporation announced the acquisition of the theatre and the neighbouring Centre Point Plaza in partnership with Burlington’s Society Developments Inc.

In a press release, Aventus Chief Financial Officer Chris Mlinaric notes “. . .I believe that with a careful appreciation of the community’s needs, we can breathe new life into the Tivoli. James Street North is home to incredible landmarks, restaurants and attractions and we want to continue this positive impact on the cultural fabric of this City.”

Exactly what the plans are for the Tivoli property and its neighbouring plaza is unclear at this point. Aventus notes that “while the project is in the conception stage, Aventus understands the importance of the Tivoli’s rich heritage and is working closely with local heritage architects and community groups to ensure the conservation and restoration of historically significant aspects and features.”

Italics added by me to draw attention to the previously unknown fact they purchased the plaza next door too.
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  #433  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2022, 8:15 PM
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The fact that the plaza next door is part of the development is what I’ve been hoping for. Thank you thank you thank you. Now comes the wait to see what they can come up with. I really like Nabil’s. Hope it survives. There is a cheque cashing place there. Hope it dies.
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  #434  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2022, 8:18 PM
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Oh how I’ve dreamed of this development teaming up with Effort Trust and destroying the plaza next door and building the tower at Wilson and Hughson beside the Tivoli and making the property in front from Wilson to the CBC building as Tivoli Square. James needs some open space. Humans crave it.
Maybe you will get your wish and we can rid ourselves of a suburban plaza in downtown
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  #435  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2022, 2:10 PM
TheRitsman TheRitsman is offline
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https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...-hamilton.html

New Tivoli and Centre Point Plaza owners say Hamilton’s ‘next chapter’ is at corner of James and Wilson

A pair of developers have announced their intentions to redevelop and restore the historic Tivoli theatre in downtown Hamilton.

In a press release, Aventus Development Corporation (Aventus) — in collaboration with Society Developments Inc. — made a joint announcement that they had purchased both the theatre as well as the adjacent Centre Point Plaza.

The properties are described as being “poised for the next chapter in the city’s evolution.”

Few details have been released about the project, which could see the revitalization of the languishing theatre, which has sat vacant on James Street North for years.

The building “was first constructed as a carriage factory in 1875, but by 1908 was established as the first in a sequence of theatres,” according to a city report from late 2016. The last theatre was enlarged to include a large auditorium in 1924 and renamed the Tivoli. The playhouse went on to become “a prominent vaudeville and motion picture venue” and is known as being the first cinema in Hamilton to show films with soundtracks.

That chapter of its history came to an end in 1989. After that, the Tivoli was used for concerts, religious services, live theatre and dance. But neglect eventually led to the city stepping in and tearing down the lobby portion of the theatre.

Back in 2013, Hamilton developer Domenic Diamante bought the Tivoli for about $900,000 from a charitable ballet ensemble run by his wife. At the time, he announced a plan to erect a 22-storey condo out front, right on James Street North. His supposed plans included fixing the theatre and connecting it to the new tower.

What exactly the future holds for the theatre and the plaza is still in the works, Aventus Chief Financial Officer Chris Mlinaric said in an email to The Spectator.

He said they are working with three “prominent and well-respected” heritage architects to produce a report on the state of the Tivoli.

He noted that once developers have been able to review the report and discuss its findings with community stakeholders, they will “be in a better position to understand how we will incorporate the Tivoli and the adjacent Centre Point Plaza into a vibrant and dynamic space that (Hamilton) will be proud of.”

The Spectator reached Mlinaric with several other questions about the project, but few were answered as the companies are “working through additional due diligence before being able to establish a development timeline.” Mlinaric did however note that they have begun the planning process and the sales of both of the properties took effect on March 28.

In a press release, Mlinaric said the pair of companies are “extremely excited to contribute to the downtown regeneration.”

Mlinaric, who says he lives downtown, said he believes “that with a careful appreciation of the community’s needs, we can breathe new life into the Tivoli.”

Ward 2 Councillor Jason Farr told The Spectator that he’s met with the proponents of the project a handful of times and that he’s “encouraged by their enthusiasm.”

Farr said the project could be a “shot in the arm” for the downtown core, especially as the city transitions into a post-pandemic world.

“It has a whole lot of potential to help the rebound on a street that has been the poster child for the rehabilitation of the downtown,” he said.

Farr did however note that the news of purchase would likely “resurrect some disappointment,” pointing to the failed plans of Diamante that left the Tivoli and the empty lot out front stagnant.

“Fortunately, I’m a glass half-full kind of guy,” he added. “I’m feeling really good about the near future. They’re really not interested in sitting on anything.”
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Last edited by TheRitsman; Apr 5, 2022 at 2:33 AM.
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  #436  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2022, 2:43 PM
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This opens up a lot of possibilities.
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  #437  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2022, 3:24 PM
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The head scratching past (which is also incredibly murky- city grants, no plans, no sale to willing buyers, building falling apart) seemingly takes a step forward. While I'm happy the Tivoli may be restored, I'm hoping any condo build out can go where the plaza is and not on top of the theatre, perhaps being a standalone theatre + condo development with retail on the ground floor where the crappy plaza is currently located.

Lastly Nabil's must stay. It's a staple of goodness.
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  #438  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2022, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by craftbeerdad View Post
The head scratching past (which is also incredibly murky- city grants, no plans, no sale to willing buyers, building falling apart) seemingly takes a step forward. While I'm happy the Tivoli may be restored, I'm hoping any condo build out can go where the plaza is and not on top of the theatre, perhaps being a standalone theatre + condo development with retail on the ground floor where the crappy plaza is currently located.
I believe the original plan was to have the tower in front of the theatre (or most of it) and there is room for that, but I share your hope -- there is now plenty of space for a new tall building on the plaza site (even set back from James) with a 3-4 floor podium wrapping around in front of a rebuilt theatre.

And if that happens, it would be nice if the section fronting the Tivoli differs in some way from the rest of the podium to make it stand out, still complementary but indicative that the theatre portion is "on its own"... what I'd really love is a 2-storey entryway, mostly glass, looking in on the lobby; not just an entry with a hallway leading to the theatre.

It's fun to play with other people's money.
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  #439  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2022, 5:35 PM
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I doubt the developer would waste that space along James. I suspect they'll use the entire site and more just integrate the theatre into the condo towers. The Tivoli doesn't have a remarkable exterior that needs to be shown off.
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  #440  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2022, 7:39 PM
JoeyColeman JoeyColeman is offline
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Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple View Post
I doubt the developer would waste that space along James. I suspect they'll use the entire site and more just integrate the theatre into the condo towers. The Tivoli doesn't have a remarkable exterior that needs to be shown off.
The development rights for 111 Hughson Street are already transferred to 108 James. There is also the Heritage Act Designation.

The zoning puzzle is complex, they are going to start anew with the four addresses (1 Wilson, 108 James, 111 Hughson, 115 Hughson), and rezone.

There will interesting discussions between planning staff and the developer to reach agreement for an appropriate development.

I wrote an analysis looking at the zoning, secondary plan, and the cultural heritage landscape.

They will do something interesting, it will take time.
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