The US Census Bureau thread

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

Illinois would move both the state capital and UIUC functions into Chicago given the first opportunity. In fact, the state is in the early process of doing so.

Having a Columbus or Madison around doesn’t exactly help the situation in Cleveland, Cincinnati and Milwaukee.

But Champaign, Springfield and even Lafayette, IN. can’t compete against Chicago being 2-3 hours away with only cornfields to offer. They are pretty poor competitors even against most other capitals and college towns in the nation.


https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg-hin...inois-research-center-chicago-move-ahead

Well... there already is a University of Illinois campus in Chicago, right?

[ChiSoxRox]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Yeah, MI and WI are lucky to have their attractive and "wild" wooded areas "up north".

contrast them with IL which suffered from the double whammy of the pandemic fueled loss in Chicagoland combined with the fact that no one wants to live in the other 50,000 sq. miles in the state, which essentially constitute one big giant seeming infinite cornfield.

In addition to being 90% corn and hogs, the main hilly, wooded part of Illinois is clear at the other end of the state. The Shawnee Hills just north of the river border with Kentucky, full of decaying coal towns and Southern Baptist counties. By the time you reach the Shawnee Hills, you're closer to Jackson, Mississippi than Chicago.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I am surprised that IL does not put more efforts into making Champaign-Urbana more of an economic engine. It's too bad the capital and the best public university of the state are not in the same city, like WI.

it is a bit of shame that IL's capital and state flagship university weren't married together in the same city like they were in some other midwest states (columbus, madison, and the twin cities), but at the same time neither indianapolis nor des moines are home to their state's flagship universities, and they've done pretty damn well for themselves, at least far better than lowly old springfield has, so......

i have to chalk a lot of it up to the simple fact that, for better or worse, chicagoland basically runs IL, and has for like 150 years now.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Well... there already is a University of Illinois campus in Chicago, right?

yes.

and while the flagship University of Illinois down in champaign is undoubtedly the state's leading and most prestigious public university, the old branch campus up in chicago is its own stand alone university now (University of Illinois - Chicago), and, according to the 2022 USNWR rankings, it is the highest ranked public university in the midwest that is not a member of the big 10. it's certainly no ann arbor, or madison, or ohio state, but UIC is now a fairly well-respected public university in its own right, not too far behind big 10 stalwarts like the U. of Iowa or Michigan State in national university rankings. so once again, even when chicago doesn't get the flagship university, it still finds ways to "win" through little more than its sheer gravity.

[The North One]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Traverse City is kind of a trendy small city, often getting written up as "best small city", "most scenic town" and the like. I don't quite get it, but whatever. Northwest MI is definitely growing, and somewhat expensive.

Yeah I totes don't get why a city on a huge bay next to sleeping bear dunes in the middle of hilly Michigan wine country and close to some of the best natural beaches would be considered a scenic town. Such a mystery.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Well... there already is a University of Illinois campus in Chicago, right?

Yes, but UIC ended up being top-ranked in the medical and health fields and business and economics.

DPI is trying to expand the fields of computers, applied science and interdisciplinary research that is more the forte of the UIUC campus.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

DPI is trying to expand the fields of computers, applied science and interdisciplinary research that is more the forte of the UIUC campus.

do you expect that DPI will legit challenge Champaign for prestige in those academic arenas?

i mean, as you said, that kinda stuff is Champaign's bread and butter, and as the overall 3rd highest ranked public university in the midwest (after ann arbor and madison), it's hard for me to fathom something like DPI really rivaling that.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Rankings probably say otherwise, but it always felt like Ohio State was an outlier in terms of academic prestige compared to other Big 10 schools like Michigan, Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota and even Rutgers and Maryland. Then again, Nebraska is the only member school that's not a member of the AAU.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Rankings probably say otherwise, but it always felt like Ohio State was an outlier in terms of academic prestige compared to other Big 10 schools like Michigan, Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois, Minnesota and even Rutgers and Maryland. Then again, Nebraska is the only member school that's not a member of the AAU.

The Big 10, as ranked by USNWR 2022 (first # is national rank):

#9. Northwestern University
#23. University of Michigan
#42. University of Wisconsin
#47. University of Illinois
#49. Ohio State University
#49. Purdue University
#59. University of Maryland
#63. Penn State University
#63. Rutgers University
#68. Indiana University
#68. University of Minnesota
#83. Michigan State University
#83. University of Iowa
#136. University of Nebraska


Northwestern and Ann Arbor are the real academic standouts of the conference, then from #42 Wisconsin to #83 Iowa, the rest of the schools are relatively tightly grouped together.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

do you expect that DPI will legit challenge Champaign for prestige in those academic arenas?

i mean, as you said, that kinda stuff is Champaign's bread and butter, and as the overall 3rd highest ranked public university in the midwest (after ann arbor and madison), it's hard for me to fathom something like DPI really rivaling that.

Not in the short term or at the scale of the Champaign campus, but UIUC is spearheading this entire project, and probably not on a whim.

I have to think their current Central Illinois location is limiting investment as well as recruitment of the most elite teaching and student candidates such that a Chicago campus looks so essential.

UIC came about from the consolidation and expansion of several pre-existing Chicago medical schools under Public University administration.

Whereas DPI would be an expansion of UIUC’s existing program in a more desirable location.

It would also give the state's flagship public university, the Urbana-Champaign campus, a prominent footprint in Chicago — a long-held goal — and bring it closer to the city's most prestigious private institutions. Northwestern University and the University of Chicago have committed to become partners in the new center, school representatives confirmed.
…
Killeen said the university wants to recruit 90 new faculty members and up to 1,800 students to the center, whose total cost has not been finalized but potentially would attract hundreds of millions in investment.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/brea...is-innovation-center-20171018-story.html

[Crawford]

University of Illinois is an excellent research university, esp. in the sciences/engineering. I don't think the fact that it's in boring corn fields hurts it too much.

Many of the finest U.S. universities are in the middle of nowhere, and/or in comparatively undesirable locations.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

University of Illinois is an excellent research university, esp. in the sciences/engineering. I don't think the fact that it's in boring corn fields hurts it too much.

Many of the finest U.S. universities are in the middle of nowhere, and/or in comparatively undesirable locations.

There are of course historical reasons for this. Many flagship state universities started out as "land-grant" agricultural colleges in the 19th century, so it made sense to have them located in what was the middle of nowhere at the time.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Crawford

University of Illinois is an excellent research university, esp. in the sciences/engineering. I don't think the fact that it's in boring corn fields hurts it too much.

Many of the finest U.S. universities are in the middle of nowhere, and/or in comparatively undesirable locations.

It doesn’t mean UIUC doesn’t do well in general, but it does mean that several sought after candidates will rank the Stanford, MIT, UC Berkeley, etc. positions first.

Also UIUC is unusually dependent on international students which can be risky in the long term.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

It doesn’t mean UIUC doesn’t do well in general, but it does mean that several sought after candidates will rank the Stanford, MIT, UC Berkeley, etc. positions first.

Also UIUC is unusually dependent on international students which can be risky in the long term.

Well, yeah lol. UIUC is never going to be Stanford or MIT.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Well, yeah lol. UIUC is never going to be Stanford or MIT.

no, of course not.

but when you're competing against those alpha-dogs in top-notch alpha locales, "located in the beautiful never-ending cornfields of central illinois" isn't likely to help your cause.

perhaps "with our new campus that will put you right in the middle of the bustling beating heart of downtown chicago" wins one or two over, or at least gets you some second considerations instead of immediate knee-jerk hard-passes.

i mean, there has to be A reason behind why UIUC is pushing so hard to plant a flag in chicago.


i believe i've also heard about the university of Michigan trying to do something similar in downtown detroit (though in fairness, ann arbor's location is nowhere near the detriment to UofM as the mind-numbing central illinois cornfields are to UIUC.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

no, of course not.

but when you're competing against those alpha-dogs in top-notch alpha locales, "located in the beautiful never-ending cornfields of central illinois" isn't likely to help your cause.

perhaps "with a satellite campus located in the bustling beating heart of downtown chicago" wins one or two over, or at least gets you some second considerations instead of immediate knee-jerk hard-passes.

i mean, there has to be A reason behind why UIUC is pushing so hard to plant a flag in chicago.


i believe i've also heard about the university of Michigan trying to do something similar in downtown detroit (though in fairness, ann arbor's location is nowhere near the detriment to UofM as the mind-numbing central illinois cornfields are to UIUC.

I think it's just the hot thing to do now. Cornell has done something similar. It's probably more aimed at attracting students than it is at faculty. I feel like faculty don't care about location as much as students. Especially students for grad programs.

Speaking of Cornell, their main campus is even more isolated from NYC than UIUC is from Chicago. Penn State is just as bad as UIUC, although not as prestigious as either Cornell or UIUC.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Speaking of Cornell, their main campus is even more isolated from NYC than UIUC is from Chicago. Penn State is just as bad as UIUC, although not as prestigious as either Cornell or UIUC.

sure, but "finger lakes" or "appalachian mountains" or "planet earth's largest cornfield"?

one of those things screams "BORING" much more that the other two.

[DCReid]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think it's just the hot thing to do now. Cornell has done something similar. It's probably more aimed at attracting students than it is at faculty. I feel like faculty don't care about location as much as students. Especially students for grad programs.

Speaking of Cornell, their main campus is even more isolated from NYC than UIUC is from Chicago. Penn State is just as bad as UIUC, although not as prestigious as either Cornell or UIUC.

I think the states trying to plant their flag university in their major city mainly want to strengthen their tech/research prowess in those cities so that tech students would stay, start up tech businesses, and in turn, they can attract more tech companies for offices and research and create cluster of startups and even more expansions/relocations. Austin and Raleigh have done so, after Boston and SF started it all, and they want to replicate. Chicago certainly has great universities, but the Urbana campus has the strongest engineering and computer science program in Illinois. According to Wiki, UIUC alumni and faculty have founded the following tech companies and organizations (none of which are headquartered or have/had large operations in Illinois):

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), 1969, co-founder Jerry Sanders (BS)
Girls Who Code, 2012, founder Reshma Saujani (BA)
Netscape, 1994, co-founder Marc Andreessen (BS)
Oracle, 1977, co-founders Larry Ellison (dropout) and Bob Miner (BS)
PayPal (Confinity), 1998, co-founders Luke Nosek (BS) and Max Levchin (BS)
Tesla, 2003, co-founder Martin Eberhard (BS, MS)
Yelp, 2004, co-founders Jeremy Stoppelman (BS) and Russel Simmons (BS)
YouTube, 2005, co-founders Steve Chen (BS) and Jawed Karim (BS)

[Crawford]

Cornell already had three of its colleges in NYC before it open the tech campus. In fact, most Cornell research dollars and endowment go to the NYC colleges. So I think it was less about planting a flag then taking advantage of Bloomberg's proposal for a new city tech campus. The Ithaca campus is traditionally very undergraduate focused, however, while the city campus is traditionally very graduate focused.

Stanford and Carnegie Mellon were the other tech campus finalists, and they obviously didn't have the same existing NYC presence.

[SIGSEGV]

Originally Posted by DCReid

I think the states trying to plant their flag university in their major city mainly want to strengthen their tech/research prowess in those cities so that tech students would stay, start up tech businesses, and in turn, they can attract more tech companies for offices and research and create cluster of startups and even more expansions/relocations. Austin and Raleigh have done so, after Boston and SF started it all, and they want to replicate. Chicago certainly has great universities, but the Urbana campus has the strongest engineering and computer science program in Illinois. According to Wiki, UIUC alumni and faculty have founded the following tech companies and organizations (none of which are headquartered or have/had large operations in Illinois):

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD), 1969, co-founder Jerry Sanders (BS)
Girls Who Code, 2012, founder Reshma Saujani (BA)
Netscape, 1994, co-founder Marc Andreessen (BS)
Oracle, 1977, co-founders Larry Ellison (dropout) and Bob Miner (BS)
PayPal (Confinity), 1998, co-founders Luke Nosek (BS) and Max Levchin (BS)
Tesla, 2003, co-founder Martin Eberhard (BS, MS)
Yelp, 2004, co-founders Jeremy Stoppelman (BS) and Russel Simmons (BS)
YouTube, 2005, co-founders Steve Chen (BS) and Jawed Karim (BS)

yeah, it's probably more about keeping UIUC talent from making California rich.

IMO it would probably be pretty beneficial to UIUC if Metra ran dual-mode locomotives from Millennium Station to Champaign relatively on a relatively frequent schedule. It could make it in just over 2 hours with existing track (based on the 36 minute running time of ME expresses to Homewood and the 1h29 minute running time of Amtrak from Homewood to Champaign) and could probably be made faster with signal/crossing improvements (it's 104 miles of almost dead straight track from Homewood to Champaign). Current Amtrak service isn't very frequent and getting to Union Station adds quite a bit of time.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by The North One

Yeah I totes don't get why a city on a huge bay next to sleeping bear dunes in the middle of hilly Michigan wine country and close to some of the best natural beaches would be considered a scenic town. Such a mystery.

I know, right? Dude takes every opportunity he can to take pot shots at anything and everything Michigan. It’s like an obsession. Hell, I live in a very beautiful place and I frequently find myself missing summers in northwest Michigan. I go back any chance I get.