Burnaby Updates

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I had to quit following the Burnaby Now. Its basically three things, People complaining about parking on the street, bad tenants in income suites or how North Burnaby keeps getting better and better since the writer grew up their as a kid. And also how many fried chicken joints seem to be opening weekly.

Oh come on,....

Who doesn't love another screed by Chris Campbell about how another one of his favourite childhood restaurants to go to, is closing down soon?

/s

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Holy Crap!!!

I am guessing the signees all own cars and drive them, and are oblivious to the fact that a Skytrain runs through their neighbourhood which is a main reason the building is proposed there, and also don't have kids in public schools or use public facilities near their homes, since a higher population base would encourage more funding for those public services and may improve them.

[officedweller]

Anthem and KingSett have acquired the Aoyuan Project at Willingdon & Dawson ("Alpha Gardens").
Looks like they are keeping the same design.

Anthem and KingSett Acquire an 8.34 Acre Mixed-Use Site in Brentwood
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-relea...34-Acre-Mixed-Use-Site-in-Brentwood.html


https://www.globenewswire.com/news-relea...34-Acre-Mixed-Use-Site-in-Brentwood.html

**************

Aoyuan rendering and plan.
Looks like the gold has been pared back.


https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/4500-dawson-street-burnaby-the-grove-first-phase


https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/4500-dawson-street-burnaby-the-grove-first-phase

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I had to quit following the Burnaby Now. Its basically three things, People complaining about parking on the street, bad tenants in income suites or how North Burnaby keeps getting better and better since the writer grew up their as a kid. And also how many fried chicken joints seem to be opening weekly.

Haha, you are so right. I keep wondering to myself why do I bother checking out the rag, as the quality of stories and topics they cover are always disappointing and same.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Anthem and KingSett have acquired the Aoyuan Project at Willingdon & Dawson ("Alpha Gardens").
Looks like they are keeping the same design.
....

Well, they kind of have little to no choice since as the article states, the project is close to final approval (the first phase at least), and not too far from commencing presales later this year.
But I wouldn't be surprised to see them make changes to the other later phases and possibly even re-apply for some new design permits with a view to getting more density.

I'm little bit surprised that Aoyuan sold up since the Brentwood area seems to be hot right now for new developments.
If I recall correctly, they also had another development proposal for a South Granville site with a presale showroom all set up, that also seems to have gone bust.

Pandemic-related financing woes, maybe?

[officedweller]

With Grosvenor going tall next door, I suspect they may try to go taller.

I was thinking financing problems, too.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Well, they kind of have little to no choice since as the article states, the project is close to final approval (the first phase at least), and not too far from commencing presales later this year.
But I wouldn't be surprised to see them make changes to the other later phases and possibly even re-apply for some new design permits with a view to getting more density.

I'm little bit surprised that Aoyuan sold up since the Brentwood area seems to be hot right now for new developments.
If I recall correctly, they also had another development proposal for a South Granville site with a presale showroom all set up, that also seems to have gone bust.

Pandemic-related financing woes, maybe?

There were some articles that they were facing financial problems like some other leveraged Chinese firms.

[Sheba]

Indeed - posted Nov 15th

Originally Posted by whatnext

Well, it should be pretty safe to safe Aoyuan's project in South Granville has gone tits up. What about Burnaby?

....The known value of all Chinese investment in Canada – not just commercial real estate – also declined after capital controls were put in place. In 2016, it was $7.6-billion; the following year it was $9.9-billion; but then investment dropped to $2.3-billion in 2018. Last year, it was $2-billion, according to the China Institute, though it cautioned this was the sum of known values and underrepresents actual investment amounts.

Today, China’s domestic property market is slowing, and the government is clamping down on developers and requiring them to reduce their debt.

Several major companies are struggling with large debt loads. They include Greenland Holding Group and China Aoyuan Group Ltd., which are both constructing condo skyscrapers in Toronto. Both have suffered multiple credit downgrades and today their debt is considered speculative, which will make it harder for them to raise funds.

Greenland is a Shanghai-based real estate giant and, like DDI, it pursued aggressive expansion into North America. But in September, Greenland sold its King Blue Hotel in downtown Toronto. Aoyuan, which has projects in the Vancouver suburbs of Burnaby and Surrey, said in November that one of its divisions is in preliminary talks to sell some of its property management services....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business...-on-canadian-commercial-real-estate-and/

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Indeed - posted Nov 15th

Ah,...I see.
Fascinating.

I hadn't seen that before.
But from what the article states, seeing as it all goes as far back as 2016, it seems the problem was less pandemic-related (although, ....that also probably didn't help matters much), and more, 'Govt. of China clamping down heavily on Chinese Property Development firms to reduce their debt load' leading to companies like Aoyuan getting hit in their credit ratings, which in turn impacted their ability to get financing and loans for their projects abroad in places like Canada and other countries, and this having to sell up their projects in places like this to remain solvent.

Anthem probably got a really good deal.

(It would probably also help explain other situations like the Polaris tower by another Chinese developer (Transca) at the corner of Nelson Ave. and Imperial in Metrotown which had stalled for a long time before Grovesnor, I believe it was, were brought in to help finish it up.).

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Ah,...I see.
Fascinating.

I hadn't seen that before.
But from what the article states, seeing as it all goes as far back as 2016, it seems the problem was less pandemic-related (although, ....that also probably didn't help matters much), and more, 'Govt. of China clamping down heavily on Chinese Property Development firms to reduce their debt load' leading to companies like Aoyuan getting hit in their credit ratings, which in turn impacted their ability to get financing and loans for their projects abroad in places like Canada and other countries, and this having to sell up their projects in places like this to remain solvent.

Anthem probably got a really good deal.

(It would probably also help explain other situations like the Polaris tower by another Chinese developer (Transca) at the corner of Nelson Ave. and Imperial in Metrotown which had stalled for a long time before Grovesnor, I believe it was, were brought in to help finish it up.).

Seems like it's not getting any better. All their auditors are quitting/getting dropped

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/22/china-pr...rande-cant-release-earnings-on-time.html

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Seems like it's not getting any better. All their auditors are quitting/getting dropped

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/22/china-pr...rande-cant-release-earnings-on-time.html

Interesting article.

Seems like years and years of leveraging their real estate and property development industry heavily on debt was finally catching up with them, and the Govt. stepped in to try to ward off a 2008-style Real Estate market crash - forcing some of those larger developers to cut down their debts.

I guess one of the advantages of being a 'not-entirely-free' market economy.

(...or you could just have tighter financial sector laws and regulations on the front end like normal (well-run) capitalist societies do.).

[Sheba]

I just got a card for this in the mail - Housing Choices

Burnaby’s Housing Choices Program is introducing new housing options into our city, which bridge the gap between single-family homes and apartments or condos.

The first new options we’re making our priority are Laneway Houses and Secondary Suites in Semi-Detached Homes (“Suites in Semis”). During our consultation for Burnaby’s HOME Strategy, you told us these were important new housing types for us to bring to our single and two-family home neighbourhoods. We heard you loud and clear, and now we’re taking action to finalize the requirements for these housing types as they become available in Burnaby.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I just got a card for this in the mail - Housing Choices

I got one too and what a joke. Is anyone surprised that a bunch of homeowners are in favor of a strategy that allows them to profit from their assets while not clearing a path for actual density in SFH neighborhoods?

All of the 2,600 participants that communicated a theme of "gentle densification" should be ashamed of themselves considering the affordability crisis in the lower mainland.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

I got one too and what a joke. Is anyone surprised that a bunch of homeowners are in favor of a strategy that allows them to profit from their assets while not clearing a path for actual density in SFH neighborhoods?

All of the 2,600 participants that communicated a theme of "gentle densification" should be ashamed of themselves considering the affordability crisis in the lower mainland.

"Yeah, but the problem is that you're not working hard enough, Mr Farmer guy..
You see if you worked hard enough like me, you'd eventually be able to afford your own home and a comfortable living in the nice beautiful neighbourhoods that we're now fighting to protect and have retired to.

That's the problem with you GenZer's and Millennials.
You expect everything on a plate."*

-BoomerGuy
(...who bought his house in the 60's/70's, when it was a fraction of its current worth, .....which it's only worth now thanks to the lopsided and cooky nature of the GVA real estate market in the last four decades and which he never would have been able to afford to buy now if he was starting out now)


*Incidentally, this was the gist of an actual response letter written by a boomer in response to all the hullabaloo about the new BCGEU development proposal at Royal Oak and how affordability wasn't really the problem.

Its the lack of a work ethic among todays "youts" that is.

Another was a complaint that the new development would raise their property taxes with all the added residents in the area.
No mention of the raise in their own property value that that would also entail, making them even bigger millionaires than they already are, thanks to the land on which their houses sit.

And all as well all know so well, nothing does wonders for your property value than (neighbouring) land lying fallow that could have been redeveloped, but instead now sits with derelict abandoned buildings adorned with the most eye-catching graffiti and frequented by only the classiest and highest caliber homeless folks.

But at least you'll be paying low property taxes.

[djmk]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I just got a card for this in the mail - Housing Choices

If Burnaby really cared about housing, they would of developed the 3800 block of Hastings years ago

[Migrant_Coconut]

Glad to know Burnaby has finally invented the Basement Suite.

[FarmerHaight]

To be honest, I personally don't really care about high housing prices. There is a path to me making a very comfortable living in my industry (not farming, btw) and I could likely own a pretty decent home in the greater Vancouver area if that was my goal. In fact, I am starting to become enamored with the flexibility of not owning a home. I know that frugal living and wise investments can create generational wealth almost as effectively as home ownership did for the boomers.

BUT, if Canada is going to remain committed to home ownership for all (an unsustainable model IMO, but I digress) cities with a high COL cannot take incremental steps toward density. I have news for the City of Burnaby: while your tortoise-speed "gentle densification" tries to address housing affordability (or the lack thereof), hare-speed inflation fed by rampant speculative buying has lapped your pitiful housing strategy and the problem is worse than when you started the consultation and planning process.

[GenWhy?]

As long as the laneway homes are allowed to be bigger / better headroom than Vancovuer's then that's a win

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Stations are usually located where bus routes intersect the line.
If Canada Way has major east-west bus routes, then they may place a station there, rather than diverting Canada Way buses to a station at Goard Way for transfer connections.

That's all assuming the line isn't on Gilmore.

It's silly because all of the students who commute to BCIT would have to walk a few hundred meters extra just so there would be a Canada Way bus connection (which isn't as busy, remember we are trying to prioritize the most common type of commuter). The 222 station for BCIT is at Goard Way for a reason.

Also, the Willingdon Lands development argument makes no sense considering a station at Canada Way would be in the further corner of the development, rather than somewhere in the middle.

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by Sheba

The Grange / Kingsway stop would be too close to Metrotown to be worthwhile - strictly based on spacing it would be at Bond instead. A Canada Way stop makes sense due to the Willingdon Lands development. So I see a more likely list of those stations as: Metrotown, Bond, Sanderson, Canada Way, Brentwood.

As I say above, the Willingdon Lands would be benefitted more by it being at Goard than Canada Way. This is because Canada Way is in the very northeast corner of the development, whereas Goard would be around the middle of it. Putting it at Canada was disadvantages the Willingdon Lands development and BCIT commuters for the sake of it just being at Canada Way for the minority who would transfer from Canada Way's busses. The 222 stop is at Goard for a reason.