PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

But the warzone areas are driving the averages downward. Do a search for studios in desirable areas, you'll see $2000-3000 per month. The whole country is suffering from an affordability problem right now (if you want to have your mind blown look at some of the prices in parts of Mississippi right now) but you keep repeating a mantra that is not accurate once you start peeling back the layers. The factors:

- Philly has large city limits [for Northeast standards].
- Philly has many areas that are an absolute mess.
- Desirable areas can be a block to block situation and in turn smaller than the whole.

I'm not knocking the progress and there's some bright spots but a lot of what you are seeing now is speculation vs actual success; building the buildings is the first step, occupying them is another. I've seen some nice shiny new buildings in the 'burbs remain empty until just recently and were only filled because of enticing move in offers and the housing shortage picking up steam. Once the dust settles I have my doubts about their occupancy rates.

I'm one of the people still leaning towards this is going to work out for Philly but I do have to acknowledge that this is a delicate balance right now and if the city keeps screwing up it won't go in the right direction.

You act like other cities don't have rough areas too with lower property values in those parts of the city. Every city in the US has at least SOME rough areas. Furthermore:

-Washington DC has a similar level of rough neighborhoods and a similar crime rate to Philly (slightly lower), yet has noticeably higher average rent
-Miami also has a similar level of rough neighborhoods and similar crime rate
-Atlanta too has a similar level of rough neighborhoods and similar crime rate
-Houston as well
-Chicago as well
-Baltimore has a MUCH HIGHER crime rate and much more of it's city limits are taken up by rough neighborhoods than Philly
-New Orleans has a MUCH HIGHER crime rate and much more of it's city limits are taken up by rough neighborhoods than Philly

All of these cities manage to have higher average rents than Philly. Hmmm... yet Philly is unaffordable?

Studios $2000-$3000 per month? Huh? I don't see that anywhere:
-Studio in NoLibs for $1,895
-Studio in Poplar for $1,775
-Studio in UCity for $1,855
-Studio in Wynnefield Heights for $1,440
-Studio in Old City for $1,695
-Studio in Cedar Park for $1,405
-Studio in Olde Kensington for $1,550
-Studio in Manayunk for $1,700
-Studio in Spruce Hill/Walnut Hill for $1,750
-Studio in Spring Garden for $1,550
-Studio in Morrell Park in Northeast Philly for $1,469
-Studio in Logan Square/Museum District for $1,359
-Studio in Brewerytown for $1,320
Etc. Etc.
https://www.apartments.com/philadelphia-pa/

Lastly, I don't understand what you mean "built on spec." Apartment buildings? Office buildings? Homes and condos? Apartments are always built on spec, there's literally no other way to do it. You can't pre-lease apartments before they're built. With the housing market so tight, and now interest rates going up even higher, I don't foresee a lot of first time homebuyers easily being able to buy homes. This leads to them renting apartments, because they have to go somewhere. With Philadelphia's apartment occupancy rate at 97%, we can EASILY afford to build apartments. In fact, we need apartments. More housing is what keeps prices low. The reason for the housing crisis is a lack of new construction....

Would you prefer them NOT build apartments over some hypothetical and unfounded fear that they MAY not be fully occupied in the future? Just seems silly to me.

[PHLtoNYC]

This is great, although I'm not sure where the demand is for a Marriott hotel at this location. I guess for Temple?

We’ve Waited 4ever, But Work is Finally Starting on the Beury Building

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/n...s-finally-starting-on-the-beury-building

[McBane]

I heard one of the ground floor retail spaces in that project is going to be a coffee shop called the Boner Cafe.

[iheartphilly]

Originally Posted by McBane

I heard one of the ground floor retail spaces in that project is going to be a coffee shop called the Boner Cafe.

It's been tried before, trust me!

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by McBane

I heard one of the ground floor retail spaces in that project is going to be a coffee shop called the Boner Cafe.

LOL. Hope it happens

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

This is great, although I'm not sure where the demand is for a Marriott hotel at this location. I guess for Temple?

We’ve Waited 4ever, But Work is Finally Starting on the Beury Building

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/n...s-finally-starting-on-the-beury-building

Love this project but I too question the demand for a hotel here. Maybe for Temple Hospital?

Current progress:


Rendering of what's to come:

We recently stopped by to check out the current state of the building and were thrilled to see multiple trucks and workers on site. Finally, after a decade of starts and stops, it looks as though renovation work is actually underway on this once-stately building.

So is something happening here at long last? It sure seems so, as Shift Capital noted last week in an Instagram post that Phase 1 of the Beury Building’s transition has officially started. This first phase will consist of a 138-key Marriott hotel, with both ground floor and rooftop (YES!) restaurants. After a couple of functional changes and design shifts, we now know that the second phase will consist of 113 rental units, to pair with surface parking for 38 cars. Zoning permits note a slight height decrease, but overall plans appear to align with the most up-to-date renderings. Shift is partnering with hospitality developer The Wankawala Organization to bring you something pretty amazing for the area.

[iheartphilly]

Hotel at Temple University near its Health Sciences Campus....definitely will get bookings...whether someone is coming to the area to do business with Temple for more than one day, a person visiting someone at the hospital or people coming in from out of town to see a game just to name a few reasons to need a room in a hotel.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
In reference to the HIV trial: https://medicine.temple.edu/news/first-c...-breakthrough-research-lewis-katz-school

https://reporter.nih.gov/search/JbRgAtch...-breakthrough-research-lewis-katz-school

Temple does research but I think it pales in comparison to Penn and Drexel.

See here for where the NIH grant money goes: Penn got over $800 million for comparison

https://reporter.nih.gov/search/JbRgAtchAUKHOoW2X1vObQ/projects/map/?states=PA

Penn is in a different league in terms of resources and research. Temple does more research than Drexel though. Here’s some info on aggregate research rankings: Penn in top percentile, Temple in top 6% of research institutions, and Drexel in top 11%. This is just one ranking guide so I’d just take it as directional insight for discussion.


https://www.scimagoir.com/rankings.php?country=USA

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

This is great, although I'm not sure where the demand is for a Marriott hotel at this location. I guess for Temple?

We’ve Waited 4ever, But Work is Finally Starting on the Beury Building

https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/n...s-finally-starting-on-the-beury-building

yeah I find the hotel use questionable for this location as well.

[ScreamShatter]

I thought No Libs/Fishtown would get a hotel before north of Temple hospital. Tbh, I’m surprised we haven’t seen a proposal for one on Delaware, Frankford, or Girard.

[PHLtoNYC]

^ That area is overdue for a sizable hotel.

I'm still waiting on the damn Edition Hotels to open one in Philadelphia. They have Tampa, Nashville, and Atlanta in the works. Philly is cooler

[Vince_]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

I thought No Libs/Fishtown would get a hotel before north of Temple hospital. Tbh, I’m surprised we haven’t seen a proposal for one on Delaware, Frankford, or Girard.

A long time ago there was a hotel proposed next to Frankford hall at the now demolished building with the Shepard Fairey mural. It's crazy how that prime lot is still sitting there.

https://philly.curbed.com/2016/12/6/13854394/fishtown-hotel-pool-renderings

[New2Fishtown]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

I thought No Libs/Fishtown would get a hotel before north of Temple hospital. Tbh, I’m surprised we haven’t seen a proposal for one on Delaware, Frankford, or Girard.

There was Roland's long-standing proposal for a large full-service hotel next to Frankford Hall, though clearly he's never been serious about seeing that through as it is now the longest-running vacant lot in the entire neighborhood. Fishtown does have a couple smaller "invisible service" hotels, including the second location of Lokal on Front Street, the Wm. Mulherins hotel (4 suites), and The Arch, which I believe is 11 apartments on Frankford next to Fishtown Social.

The hotel landscape has been pretty disrupted by Airbnb and the rise of short-term rentals and fully furnished apartments from providers like Sonder. A friend of mine recently came into two nights and after looking at a bunch of traditional hotel brands i ended up booking her an apartment at the Terrace on 18th (the former Embassy Suites where the new Victory Taproom is) because the first 10 or so floors are fully operated by Sonder, creating essentially a hotel within the apartment building even though Sonder's name appears nowhere. My point being that I imagine Fishtown and NoLibs will see arrangements like that before they get something like a Marriott. Apartment developers have started doing master lease agreements with operators like Sonder, especially when they're worried about being able to lease up lots of new supply. I could see it being very possible that Piazza Terminal will go partially this route. And as I type, a quick search reminds me that Sonder runs all the apartments at 1502 Frankford (where the Chase Bank and European Wax Center are).

So...there are a lot of places in Fishtown where one can book an overnight stay. But it would be cool and really fill a hole in the offerings I think to have a larger more fully branded hotel concept with a great lobby bar scene. I hope Roland's plans eventually come to fruition.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

I thought No Libs/Fishtown would get a hotel before north of Temple hospital. Tbh, I’m surprised we haven’t seen a proposal for one on Delaware, Frankford, or Girard.

When I was a student at the Fox School of Business, I did an analysis paper on what the financials look like to acquire a parcel of land near Temple and develop a large-scale hotel. I continue to be surprised that, aside from the Conwell Inn, there isn't at least one hotel on/near Temple's campus. Given the size of the student body, I'm sure that a hotel on North Broad would be consistently occupied.

Speaking of Girard, does anyone know what's planned for the SE corner of 8th and Girard? I noticed large pieces of equipment on the site of the old gas station while taking my train to the office this morning. It appears that all of Girard between 8th and Franklin Streets is fenced off at the moment. Additionally, it looks like site work has finally started on the building set to rise at 8th and Poplar.

[PHLtoNYC]

Another band-aid...

Philly Wealth Tax targeting stock holdings set to be proposed ahead of Mayor Kenney's budget

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2022/03/28/a-philly-wealth-tax-is-being-proposed.html

"The Philly Wealth Tax will be introduced by at-large Councilmember Kendra Brooks, a member of the Working Families Party. The tax has support from Democratic at-large Councilmembers Helen Gym and Jamie Gauthier, as well as from former U.S. presidential candidate and Massachusetts Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren."

"The bill would tax the value of direct holdings in stocks and bonds at a maximum rate of 0.4%, excluding retirement funds, mutual funds and exchange trade funds. The tax would bring in somewhere between $150 million and $400 million for the city's budget, Brooks' office said. The revenue from the tax would go toward enhancing city services, like expanding library funding and access, improving homeless services and expanding youth programming at recreation centers and parks."

""Philadelphia is already one of the highest-taxed city in the U.S. and adding another tax will surely be met with some opposition. Brooks said that "four dollars on every thousand is a small price to pay to have a safe and thriving city.""

"City Hall has developed an anti-business perception that has only grown in recent years. While the proposed wealth tax doesn't directly target businesses, many of the high-wealth individuals it does target are in decision-making positions for the city's businesses."

"Mike Shields, a project manager at the Economy League of Greater Philadelphia, said that the tax "adds teeth" to city government's commitment to address income inequality, which he said is one of the city's most pressing socioeconomic issues. However, it may not address a key indicator of the city's post-pandemic economic recovery. "At the end of the day, having more city services is great, but what we really need in this city is jobs and I don’t see this tax really playing into that," Shields said."

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

You act like other cities don't have rough areas too with lower property values in those parts of the city. Every city in the US has at least SOME rough areas. Furthermore:

-Washington DC has a similar level of rough neighborhoods and a similar crime rate to Philly (slightly lower), yet has noticeably higher average rent
-Miami also has a similar level of rough neighborhoods and similar crime rate
-Atlanta too has a similar level of rough neighborhoods and similar crime rate
-Houston as well
-Chicago as well
-Baltimore has a MUCH HIGHER crime rate and much more of it's city limits are taken up by rough neighborhoods than Philly
-New Orleans has a MUCH HIGHER crime rate and much more of it's city limits are taken up by rough neighborhoods than Philly

All of these cities manage to have higher average rents than Philly. Hmmm... yet Philly is unaffordable?

Studios $2000-$3000 per month? Huh? I don't see that anywhere:
-Studio in NoLibs for $1,895
-Studio in Poplar for $1,775
-Studio in UCity for $1,855
-Studio in Wynnefield Heights for $1,440
-Studio in Old City for $1,695
-Studio in Cedar Park for $1,405
-Studio in Olde Kensington for $1,550
-Studio in Manayunk for $1,700
-Studio in Spruce Hill/Walnut Hill for $1,750
-Studio in Spring Garden for $1,550
-Studio in Morrell Park in Northeast Philly for $1,469
-Studio in Logan Square/Museum District for $1,359
-Studio in Brewerytown for $1,320
Etc. Etc.
https://www.apartments.com/philadelphia-pa/

Lastly, I don't understand what you mean "built on spec." Apartment buildings? Office buildings? Homes and condos? Apartments are always built on spec, there's literally no other way to do it. You can't pre-lease apartments before they're built. With the housing market so tight, and now interest rates going up even higher, I don't foresee a lot of first time homebuyers easily being able to buy homes. This leads to them renting apartments, because they have to go somewhere. With Philadelphia's apartment occupancy rate at 97%, we can EASILY afford to build apartments. In fact, we need apartments. More housing is what keeps prices low. The reason for the housing crisis is a lack of new construction....

Would you prefer them NOT build apartments over some hypothetical and unfounded fear that they MAY not be fully occupied in the future? Just seems silly to me.

No, I don't act like that. But how I do act is in a manner where I am able to focus on just the topic at hand.

It's odd that you didn't come across countless examples while spending time scouring specific areas trying to find under $2000 (and a few of your examples are getting pretty close anyway). Here's a few, studios:

$2765 https://www.apartments.com/the-atlantic-philadelphia-pa/hqf41b0/

$2495 https://www.apartments.com/1213-walnut-philadelphia-pa/851yr90/

There's many and try doing a general search vs what you seemed to have done. But your next argument may be, "Yeah but these examples are in CC which is more expensive." But unfortunately for you that is irrelevant to my point and as you can see there are indeed studios in the price range that I had stated. Now pan out from here and look at the bigger picture and the math behind the numbers and you will see evidence of what I am saying appears to be the case.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Another band-aid...

Philly Wealth Tax targeting stock holdings set to be proposed ahead of Mayor Kenney's budget

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2022/03/28/a-philly-wealth-tax-is-being-proposed.html

"The Philly Wealth Tax will be introduced by at-large Councilmember Kendra Brooks, a member of the Working Families Party. The tax has support from Democratic at-large Councilmembers Helen Gym and Jamie Gauthier, as well as from former U.S. presidential candidate and Massachusetts Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren."

"The bill would tax the value of direct holdings in stocks and bonds at a maximum rate of 0.4%, excluding retirement funds, mutual funds and exchange trade funds. The tax would bring in somewhere between $150 million and $400 million for the city's budget, Brooks' office said. The revenue from the tax would go toward enhancing city services, like expanding library funding and access, improving homeless services and expanding youth programming at recreation centers and parks."

""Philadelphia is already one of the highest-taxed city in the U.S. and adding another tax will surely be met with some opposition. Brooks said that "four dollars on every thousand is a small price to pay to have a safe and thriving city.""

"City Hall has developed an anti-business perception that has only grown in recent years. While the proposed wealth tax doesn't directly target businesses, many of the high-wealth individuals it does target are in decision-making positions for the city's businesses."

"Mike Shields, a project manager at the Economy League of Greater Philadelphia, said that the tax "adds teeth" to city government's commitment to address income inequality, which he said is one of the city's most pressing socioeconomic issues. However, it may not address a key indicator of the city's post-pandemic economic recovery. "At the end of the day, having more city services is great, but what we really need in this city is jobs and I don’t see this tax really playing into that," Shields said."

About as good of an idea as the new 211 number...even though most times no one picks up 311 and 911 so a third number will definitely fix the problem

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by phltonyc

another band-aid...

philly wealth tax targeting stock holdings set to be proposed ahead of mayor kenney's budget

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2022/03/28/a-philly-wealth-tax-is-being-proposed.html

"the philly wealth tax will be introduced by at-large councilmember kendra brooks, a member of the working families party. The tax has support from democratic at-large councilmembers helen gym and jamie gauthier, as well as from former u.s. Presidential candidate and massachusetts democratic senator elizabeth warren."

"the bill would tax the value of direct holdings in stocks and bonds at a maximum rate of 0.4%, excluding retirement funds, mutual funds and exchange trade funds. The tax would bring in somewhere between $150 million and $400 million for the city's budget, brooks' office said. The revenue from the tax would go toward enhancing city services, like expanding library funding and access, improving homeless services and expanding youth programming at recreation centers and parks."

""philadelphia is already one of the highest-taxed city in the u.s. And adding another tax will surely be met with some opposition. Brooks said that "four dollars on every thousand is a small price to pay to have a safe and thriving city.""

"city hall has developed an anti-business perception that has only grown in recent years. While the proposed wealth tax doesn't directly target businesses, many of the high-wealth individuals it does target are in decision-making positions for the city's businesses."

"mike shields, a project manager at the economy league of greater philadelphia, said that the tax "adds teeth" to city government's commitment to address income inequality, which he said is one of the city's most pressing socioeconomic issues. However, it may not address a key indicator of the city's post-pandemic economic recovery. "at the end of the day, having more city services is great, but what we really need in this city is jobs and i don’t see this tax really playing into that," shields said."

bullshit

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

Another band-aid...

Philly Wealth Tax targeting stock holdings set to be proposed ahead of Mayor Kenney's budget

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2022/03/28/a-philly-wealth-tax-is-being-proposed.html

"The Philly Wealth Tax will be introduced by at-large Councilmember Kendra Brooks, a member of the Working Families Party. The tax has support from Democratic at-large Councilmembers Helen Gym and Jamie Gauthier, as well as from former U.S. presidential candidate and Massachusetts Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren."

"The bill would tax the value of direct holdings in stocks and bonds at a maximum rate of 0.4%, excluding retirement funds, mutual funds and exchange trade funds. The tax would bring in somewhere between $150 million and $400 million for the city's budget, Brooks' office said. The revenue from the tax would go toward enhancing city services, like expanding library funding and access, improving homeless services and expanding youth programming at recreation centers and parks."

""Philadelphia is already one of the highest-taxed city in the U.S. and adding another tax will surely be met with some opposition. Brooks said that "four dollars on every thousand is a small price to pay to have a safe and thriving city.""

"City Hall has developed an anti-business perception that has only grown in recent years. While the proposed wealth tax doesn't directly target businesses, many of the high-wealth individuals it does target are in decision-making positions for the city's businesses."

"Mike Shields, a project manager at the Economy League of Greater Philadelphia, said that the tax "adds teeth" to city government's commitment to address income inequality, which he said is one of the city's most pressing socioeconomic issues. However, it may not address a key indicator of the city's post-pandemic economic recovery. "At the end of the day, having more city services is great, but what we really need in this city is jobs and I don’t see this tax really playing into that," Shields said."

Really dumb honestly. While I support something like this overall, this really should be done at the federal level to ensure equal playing field for all cities and municipalities in the country.

Philadelphia cannot be a leader on something like this. Philadelphia has already taxed itself into being one of the poorest cities in the nation with one of the weakest job markets. The city should be working NOW to reduce wage tax to 2% or below, and get rid of ridiculous business taxes like BIRT and Use & Occupancy taxes, among others.

We're going the OPPOSITE direction that we should be heading in city council. It's really amazing how shortsighted some of these people are. Do they know how easy it is for a wealthy resident to "move." Most of these people own multiple properties. They could easily "move" their primary residence out of the city to another property and there goes the entire tax base of that individual for the city. Period.

Until more cities pass taxes like this (NYC, Boston, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas).... Philadelphia should NOT be the first to do it.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Really dumb honestly. While I support something like this overall, this really should be done at the federal level to ensure equal playing field for all cities and municipalities in the country.

Philadelphia cannot be a leader on something like this. Philadelphia has already taxed itself into being one of the poorest cities in the nation with one of the weakest job markets. The city should be working NOW to reduce wage tax to 2% or below, and get rid of ridiculous business taxes like BIRT and Use & Occupancy taxes, among others.

We're going the OPPOSITE direction that we should be heading in city council. It's really amazing how shortsighted some of these people are. Do they know how easy it is for a wealthy resident to "move." Most of these people own multiple properties. They could easily "move" their primary residence out of the city to another property and there goes the entire tax base of that individual for the city. Period.

Until more cities pass taxes like this (NYC, Boston, San Fran, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, Dallas).... Philadelphia should NOT be the first to do it.

Sure fire way to guarantee NO wealthy people live in the city.

I mean, it's one thing to tax capital gains. It's an entirely other thing to think you can take 4% of your holdings PER YEAR. Give me an f'ng break.

It's pretty clear these fools don't even know how stocks work.