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  #2401  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2022, 4:25 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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The "rural Community of Whitman" Im sorry a couple of trailer homes strewn across the desert is not a "rural community"

Im not against people living in small towns, far from it but a couple of desert weirdos complaining about a major infrastructure node only a few miles outside of a major metro is just idioitc.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2022/03/09/state-land-auction-bnsf-moving-forward.html


Quote:
At the start of the Great Recession, dozens of Wittmann residents and ranchers banded together to fight a city of Surprise proposal that would significantly impact their rural community.

BNSF Railway Co., owned by Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (NYSE: BRK.A), was eyeing the Valley for its next rail facility and had asked the city to designate hundreds of acres in Wittmann for industrial uses, city of Surprise documents said in 2007.

The giant freight company envisioned a 130-acre rail yard, 200-acre automotive shipping facility and up to 16 million square feet of warehouse space on a 723-acre parcel that cuts through Wittmann, similar to its other inland ports and industrial centers, according to Arizona Republic reports from 2007 and 2008.

But for months, Wittmann residents protested to the city of Surprise and attended heated meetings to voice concerns over transparency, safety of their schools and homes, crime, truck traffic, pollution and noise. Some residents had even proposed Wittmann being annexed into the nearby town of Wickenburg and created groups and a website to oppose BNSF’s plans, according to reports at the time.

Surprise's planning commission recommended City Council reject BNSF's request but the city approved it anyway, while residents continued fighting the impending project. The project was slated to start construction in 2012, according to reports, but like many Valley projects put on hold after the Great Recession, the facility was never built. This was despite BNSF and the city's claims that the facility would bring 6,000 well-paying jobs to Surprise and “completely change how product moved through the Phoenix metro area.” BNSF did not respond to questions about why the facility never came to fruition.

Rail company returns to Wittmann
Now it appears BNSF may be proposing a similar project once again.

Public records show that the rail giant began the long process in late 2020 of asking the state to put 3,500 acres of State Trust Land in the Wittmann area up for auction. The land borders the site where BNSF originally wanted to build in the late 2000s and is north of U.S. Route 60 and the existing BNSF rail line within the city of Surprise planning area.

Specific plans for the site have not been released, but BNSF could build a multi-modal rail transportation and shipping facility and millions of square feet of warehouse space, according to an appraisal and state documents. BNSF previously told the Business Journal that it's "too soon" to know what will be built on the site in the northwest Valley.

If BNSF successfully bids on the property at the March 30 auction at the Arizona State Land Department in Phoenix, it would also have to apply to annex and rezone the land and for a major general plan amendment to designate it for industrial uses in Surprise or rezone the land through the county.

While the economic implications of such a project could be huge for the Phoenix metro, some Wittmann residents have again opposed the rail facility, which state records said could start construction in 2025.

Following the Business Journal’s initial reports on the proposed project, the Arizona State Land Department received more than 30 “written protests” through its online portal opposing BNSF’s application and auction. Arizona law says protests of auction terms should be filed within 30 days of the auction posting.

Much of the protests filed came from longtime Wittmann residents citing concerns similar to those from 2007 about traffic congestion and safety, limited infrastructure, the environment, property values, noise and pollution. The site being auctioned is also part of a larger grazing lease that covers 12,585 acres, state land records said.

“In an area that is so quickly exploding with development, the sale of this vital public land will be incredibly detrimental to wildlife, the existing neighborhoods, and the delicate ecosystems that thrive in this transitional zone," one submitted protest stated. "My family has lived in the Morristown/Wittmann area for five generations now and we understand how important areas like this are for the livelihood of the ranchers that utilize the public land as well as the neighbors that enjoy having open and undeveloped state land surrounding their property."

Auction moves forward
Despite the protests filed against BNSF’s application, the Arizona State Land Department commissioner is moving forward with the auction, which was initially approved in January. Part of the reason, according to an order issued by the commissioner on March 2, is that the oppositions were related to the applicant's plans and not the terms of the auction.

"While the commissioner and the department are aware of the applicant's current intended use for the parcel and have considered that use when determining whether the sale is in the best interest of the Trust, the commissioner's decision to hold the auction is not equivalent to authorizing the applicant's intended use," the commissioner's order stated.

Several residents also disagreed with the minimum bid price of $49.1 million, or $14,000 per acre, a price the department approved after they contracted Scottsdale-based Wayne Harding & Associates to conduct an appraisal in July 2021. The residents cited other land sales such as Apple Inc.'s purchase of the Chrysler Proving Grounds for $125 million, or $22,902 per acre last July. Arizona schools are the main beneficiaries of state land auctions.

But the department said the appraisal process was "proper" under state law. The appraisal also noted the proving grounds purchase was a "less reliable comparable" since the site is already incorporated into and zoned by the city of Surprise and has several million dollars in specialized test-track, building improvements and secured perimeter installed.

The commissioner has the power to hold a hearing, cancel the auction or proceed with it based on the validity of the protests. The commissioner's order concluded, however, that "all grounds of all protests ... are either insufficient to constitute a valid protest or incorrect and therefore rejected."

Land experts speculate on price
Multiple industry experts agreed with the appraiser's initial assessment of the property and said the minimum bid price of about $14,000 per acre for the "as is" desert land is fair since it would be an at-risk purchase and zoning is not guaranteed.

After adjustment, the six sales that Wayne Harding & Associates used to determine the value ranged from $8,749 to $15,000 per acre for parcels ranging in size from 542 to 2,818 acres, according to the appraisal.

"On this particular piece, I think the State Land Department appraised it as [speculative] land, used comps that are comparable," said Howard Weinstein, a founding principal at The Land Agency. "We wouldn't shoot holes in the appraisal and say it's too high or too low, I'd say it's probably pretty accurate."

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. purchased 1,128 acres of state land in north Phoenix in 2020 for $89 million, or nearly $79,000 per acre, which is a significantly higher price. But experts said it's difficult to compare land sales since each property is valued based on factors like the market at the time of assessment.

How much is invested in infrastructure or improvements, the specific location and size, the purpose of the sale and floodplain issues, which are prevalent in the Wittmann area, are also considered in an appraisal, among other reasons, Anna Sepic, vice president of LevRose Commercial Real Estate, said.

BNSF's plans could also be tied to a bigger picture of the TSMC facility and suppliers, Apple's purchase and use of the adjacent proving grounds and other large projects across the Valley, experts speculated. It will also be located between the Loop 303 and proposed Interstate 11, which would run from Nogales to Nevada through Arizona.

"I think the land is probably priced appropriately, especially if you consider what it brings to the Valley and the community from an economic point of view," said Paul Borgesen, senior advisor at SVN Desert Commercial Advisors. "They're not putting up a big factory, but the amount of civil engineering work that goes into it is pretty substantial."

Read more: BNSF's proposed Arizona rail intermodal facility would be 'transformative' for the region

Growth moving closer to Wittmann
The West Valley, which has had cheaper land prices and some of the fastest-growing cities in the nation, is where many developers have looked to build homes in the Phoenix metro to fill demand in recent years.

The area southeast of Wittmann has significantly grown with communities such as Asante and Desert Oasis and since the extension of Happy Valley Road, which has connected the 163rd Avenue corridor to the Loop 303.

"There's just a ton of new home activity up in that specific corridor," said Patty Lafferty, principal of The Land Agency. "Price is starting to move pretty aggressively in that area. It's super active from both the for-sale and for-rent product type."

If BNSF moves forward with its plans, experts say land and home values, which has been driven by low supply and increased demand, will continue to go up.

"If BNSF railroad creates this [intermodal], if that happens, land values and house values will skyrocket. Just like what's happened with the [Loop 303] with all the employment. Land values and house prices have blown out of the water," said Nate Nathan, president of Nathan and Associates.
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  #2402  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2022, 11:47 PM
az_daniel az_daniel is offline
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I am interested in hearing their concerns, but I am usually not too inclined to let a few people living in the middle of nowhere dictate the infrastructure and economic needs of a metro of many millions of people.
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  #2403  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2022, 12:57 AM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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I’d be much more willing to consider their issues if Whitman was a real town with like a history and like maybe a Main Street, some local industry

But it’s just a random collection of homes
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  #2404  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2022, 3:13 AM
xymox xymox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
I’d be much more willing to consider their issues if Whitman was a real town with like a history and like maybe a Main Street, some local industry

But it’s just a random collection of homes
This is MOST of rural AZ - rarely incorporated areas because no one wants a gov't to be beholden too. And then when the larger cities control them via their planning areas due to growth and a big project comes up - they suddenly want to incorporated or be annexed by some other nearby town. (i.e. New River/Desert Hills).

The whole corridor along US-60 is just going to grow like mad. Fortunately for them, they can opt to move further out west well ahead of all the development, nothing is forcing them to stay there.

Yet they have no issue with the various proving grounds around them that have been there for 20+ years?
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  #2405  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2022, 3:17 PM
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I have a friend who lives out there with his wife. I sure hope they aren't part of the group that's complaining or I'll have to call him out on this
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  #2406  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2022, 5:45 PM
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combusean combusean is online now
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Wittman has been in the Surprise planning area for as long as I can remember. And that planning area is basically hitting the bucket on Paintbrush and flood-filling it with "neighborhoods." Easily the worst general plan I've ever seen, but it doesn't matter anyways because there aren't a lot of teeth to general plan requirements other than a city council vote to amend it which Surprise will anyways--they'd be out of their mind to opposes this project.
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  #2407  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2022, 6:22 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by combusean View Post
Wittman has been in the Surprise planning area for as long as I can remember. And that planning area is basically hitting the bucket on Paintbrush and flood-filling it with "neighborhoods." Easily the worst general plan I've ever seen, but it doesn't matter anyways because there aren't a lot of teeth to general plan requirements other than a city council vote to amend it which Surprise will anyways--they'd be out of their mind to opposes this project.
Yeah they would, its needed infrastructure and its a fantastic source of high paying non college required jobs for the west valley.

You'd be insane to oppose this over a couple of 🞵🞵🞵🞵 kickers in the desert to be blunt.
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  #2408  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2022, 6:42 PM
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I would almost feel sorry for those people if they weren't so stupid and entitled. It's the exact opposite of the State Trust to ensure they're surrounded by "open space" to enjoy.
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  #2409  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2022, 9:45 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Korean electronics giant LG plans $2.8 billion plant in Queen Creek

And the manufacturing jobs keep on comin'....

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...ctronics-giant-lg-queen-creek-plant.html
Quote:
South Korea-based electronics giant LG is planning a $2.8 billion plant in Queen Creek, which town documents say will create 2,800 jobs and include 1 million square feet of new development.

Queen Creek Town Council voted at its March 16 meeting on a development agreement and foreign trade zone recommendation for ES America LLC for 300 acres of land that are part of a larger, 650-acre parcel that will be sold at an Arizona State Land Department auction on April 19. The items were approved 5-2 without discussion from the Council. Councilmembers Leah Martineau and Emilena Turley voted against approval.

City documents do not specify the exact use for the plant, simply calling it an “advanced manufacturing facility.” City documents refer to the LG plant as “Project Alpha.” LG Energy Solution and electric truck manufacturer Nikola Corp. announced in October 2021 that they had entered into a battery supply agreement. That agreement would supply Nikola trucks with LG batteries from 2022 to 2029.
Edit: Did some more research on this and looks like this will indeed be a battery factory and customers will be Tesla, Lucid, and other electronic car "prominent startups".

Last edited by ASU Diablo; Mar 23, 2022 at 10:02 PM.
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  #2410  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2022, 5:56 PM
muertecaza muertecaza is offline
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2021 census estimates were released yesterday. Maricopa County and Phoenix metro remain at or near the top for numeric growth:

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-re...&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

Maricopa County topped the list for county numeric growth, and Phoenix metro was second to Dallas in numeric growth; Phoenix had the greatest net domestic migration, but Dallas was apparently having more babies/fewer deaths than we were. Numbers are somewhat down from the pace of the last decade (understandably given COVID).
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  #2411  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2022, 6:06 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muertecaza View Post
2021 census estimates were released yesterday. Maricopa County and Phoenix metro remain at or near the top for numeric growth:

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-re...&utm_medium=email&utm_source=govdelivery

Maricopa County topped the list for county numeric growth, and Phoenix metro was second to Dallas in numeric growth; Phoenix had the greatest net domestic migration, but Dallas was apparently having more babies/fewer deaths than we were. Numbers are somewhat down from the pace of the last decade (understandably given COVID).
Still not at 5 million for Phoenix MSA I don't believe these G-man stats
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  #2412  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2022, 6:30 PM
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Still not at 5 million for Phoenix MSA I don't believe these G-man stats
Take solace that this was the stat as of July 2021. Assuming our growth since then has kept about the same pace, we will surpass 5 million by this July...if we haven't already.

4,946,145 + 78,220 = 5,024,365....give or take
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  #2413  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2022, 6:37 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro View Post
Take solace that this was the stat as of July 2021. Assuming our growth since then has kept about the same pace, we will surpass 5 million by this July...if we haven't already.

4,946,145 + 78,220 = 5,024,365....give or take
The number also seems low Phoenix metro has gained like 80-90k per year for several years even 2020. But I'm of the opinion we are undercounted and have been for a long time. I think we've been at 5mil since 2020
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  #2414  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2022, 7:50 PM
jermykermy jermykermy is offline
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03.20.22

Was in town last weekend.

Love the idea for the garage but still not sold on their execution. It is what it is.



Skye on 6th crane poking through in the background.

Last edited by jermykermy; Mar 26, 2022 at 11:46 PM.
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  #2415  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2022, 1:33 AM
ChaseM ChaseM is offline
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Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
The number also seems low Phoenix metro has gained like 80-90k per year for several years even 2020. But I'm of the opinion we are undercounted and have been for a long time. I think we've been at 5mil since 2020
I honestly think we are past the 5 million mark in the metro, it's no doubt especially since AZ was the most undercounted state in the 2020 census.

https://www.thecentersquare.com/arizona/...d3814ec-ad13-11eb-ae44-6367f23f7942.html
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  #2416  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2022, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jermykermy View Post
Was in town last weekend.

Love the idea for the garage but still not sold on their execution. It is what it is.



Skye on 6th crane poking through in the background.
That area is dying for Barrister to be built.

And maybe if the bathroom wall rumors of someone significant (Bob Iger?) buying the Suns come true, the lots adjacent to the arena that the Suns own will be developed with something significant someday.

P.S. Go Suns! Their run and their kicking of 🞵🞵🞵 can only help the City and downtown.
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  #2417  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2022, 10:28 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Looks like they have started adding some more up to date street views to October 21'
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  #2418  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2022, 6:30 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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Good News on the Railyard out in Wittman.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/


Quote:
Texas-based BNSF Railway Co. was the winning and sole bidder for a 3,508-acre piece of land at an Arizona State Land Department auction held Wednesday morning.

The giant freight company won the auction at the minimum bid price of $49.11 million, or approximately $14,000 per acre, for the massive piece of land located in the Wittmann area just outside of Surprise. It's also located along BNSF's main line and U.S. Route 60.

The winning bid comes after BNSF started the long process to buy the state trust land in late 2020. It officially applied for the auction about a year ago and received approval from the commissioner in January 2022.

An appraisal was conducted in July 2021 by Scottsdale-based Wayne Harding & Associates, which concluded the minimum bid price after comparing six land sale prices ranging from $8,000 to $25,000 and adjusting for factors like size of the land, site improvements, zoning and market conditions.

Public records show that BNSF wanted to buy the land for a multi-modal rail transportation and shipping facility and a logistics center with associated warehousing, which could be similar to its other inland ports in metro areas like Chicago and Dallas-Fort Worth.

The auction also moved forward on Wednesday after the state rejected more than 30 oppositions it had received from longtime Wittmann residents. Many said they were opposed to BNSF's plans for the property, which is part of a larger grazing lease, due to concerns about pollution, increased truck traffic, limited infrastructure, safety and the environment.

Some were also opposed to the minimum bid price, citing the recent sale of the Chrysler Proving Grounds for $125 million, or $22,092 per acre, to Apple Inc. But the appraiser determined this sale was less reliable since the property was already incorporated into and zoned by the city of Surprise and has other improvements.


Now, the rail company is a step closer to building a facility similar to what it has envisioned for the Valley since the 2000s, when it wanted to build a rail yard, automotive shipping facility and 16 million square feet of warehouses on 723 acres in the rural community.

The plans proposed in 2007 were also met with backlash from Wittmann residents and ranchers, who protested to the city of Surprise for months. Reports at the time said construction was expected to start in 2012, but the project never came to fruition.


Documents said construction on the new plans could start by 2025 with an opening date of 2028, but BNSF said it was "too soon" to know what will be built on the property. To build the facility, BNSF will also have to request a rezone in Maricopa County or a major general plan amendment and rezone in Surprise.

If successful, a facility such as this could have big economic implications for the region, experts said. It could boost interest from manufacturers and distribution companies, resulting in a ripple effect of further economic growth in development and logistics.

This type of facility could also be a major job creator, experts previously told the Business Journal, making Phoenix more competitive for attracting companies. The Logistics Park Chicago and CenterPoint Intermodal Center - Elwood, for example, represents a $1 billion investment with a 770-acre intermodal yard and at millions of square feet of building space.

The rail company's plans also come at a time when more manufacturers and distribution companies are moving or expanding operations in states like Arizona and Texas. A massive rail facility in the Valley could also be a link to the global marketplace through the West Coast, experts say.

“Intermodal is a key component to the types of advanced manufacturing projects Phoenix is competing for, particularly the new high-stakes battle for new semiconductor industry, as well as electric vehicle assembly plants and suppliers,” John Boyd, principal of The Boyd Company Inc., previously told the Phoenix Business Journal.
Something tells me there isnt the same kind of political will to killthe project this time around.
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  #2419  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2022, 9:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obadno View Post
Something tells me there isnt the same kind of political will to kill the project this time around.
Not with only 30 residents in opposition to it
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  #2420  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2022, 3:47 PM
Obadno Obadno is offline
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An op ed in PBJ starts with this:

Quote:
I moved to Arizona about four years ago. I just renewed my lease for another year, despite a significant rent increase. Sadly, rent stabilization has yet to make its way to my new home state.
No we DO NOT need rent control policies we do not have a lack of availability for development. Rent controls help people who lock in a rent and screw literally everyone else.

no.

I refuse to link the shite article
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