DENVER | Main Development Thread #7 - Page 624

Agent Orange · #**12461** Posted **Mar 21, 2022, 7:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Honestly, each time I've been downtown this year, it has been surprisingly vibrant. Seems like most restaurants and bars are pretty packed on the weekend. I don't know what the Tuesday lunch rush looks like on 16th Street Mall but my experiences downtown don't align with the whole decline of downtown narrative. Hopefully, downtown becomes more resilient as significant residential development happens in downtown adjacent neighborhoods (Arapahoe square, Five Points, RiNo, Golden Triangle, etc...).

Agree with this. The CBD itself (due to the huge drop in office workers) and the Union Station area to a lesser extent (due to the open air drug market/crime/transient population) are the only parts of town that feel less busy than pre-Covid to me. Central city neighborhoods like Rino, Highland, Baker, City Park etc. seem busy as ever. It's somewhat a shame that the focus seems to be shifting away from the center somewhat, in part because that makes transit a lot less difficult. Hopefully the downtown core reinvents itself or adapts soon.

Brainpathology · #**12462** Posted **Mar 21, 2022, 7:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Orange

Agree with this. The CBD core (due to the huge drop in office workers) and the Union Station area to a lesser extent (due to the open air drug market/crime/transient population) are the only parts of town that feel less busy than pre-Covid to me. Central city neighborhoods like Rino, Highland, Baker, City Park etc. seem busy as ever. It's somewhat a shame that the focus seems to be shifting away from the center somewhat, in part because that makes transit a lot less difficult. Hopefully the downtown core reinvents itself or adapts soon.

I've never seen downtown as empty as it was when I first started following things here. I really think Denver's worst days are behind it and that its best are still ahead. I also believe in the long run if more adjacent neighborhoods become more dense like you're seeing that will help transit more than hurt it.

laniroj · #**12463** Posted **Mar 21, 2022, 9:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

I've never seen downtown as empty as it was when I first started following things here. I really think Denver's worst days are behind it and that its best are still ahead. I also believe in the long run if more adjacent neighborhoods become more dense like you're seeing that will help transit more than hurt it.

Agreed. Bulldurhamer pointed this out too. Denver's worst days are definitely behind it as compared to the 90's, 00's. I wasn't really around for the 80's, but I just assume it was a complete ghost town until DCPA came along. That said, dtown, union station and even platte street are all maybe 40% of what they were pre-covid, a shell of their former selves but other parts of the City are mainly thriving, though I suspect not quite like they did pre-covid (many more issues to deal with now).

DenverInfill · #**12464** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 2:25 AM**

I live a block from Platte Street and am through there daily several times. It's as lively as ever. When it's nice out, the sidewalks and patios are crowded.

SirLucasTheGreat · #**12465** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 4:23 AM**

New construction fencing around the Amacon site. I think others noted that the prior fencing wasn't actually construction fencing. The new fencing says "construction area", "1919 Broadway", and it also covers the sidewalks.

BG918 · #**12466** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 5:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

We left Denver last Spring after 10 years and are back in OKC. A number of factors contributed to us leaving (affordability, pandemic babies, family, etc.), but doing so opened up a lot of opportunities financially. So far, the pros have outweighed the cons (for us). We still get to ride our bikes and walk to amenities (except when it's 100+ out). Transit is awful, but working to make better.

I absolutely LOVE Denver and spent the last 10 years working for the City to try and make it better (not sure if I succeeded or not). We miss it a lot.

I recently moved out of Denver to Tulsa. Loved living in the city for 9 years including the Golden Triangle, University and Stapleton/Central Park neighborhoods. Made a boatload of money selling my house and still frequent Denver for work so I get to see experience the growth and new restaurants/breweries but can live in a much nicer house with less traffic and near family.

wong21fr · #**12467** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 4:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918

I recently moved out of Denver to Tulsa. Loved living in the city for 9 years including the Golden Triangle, University and Stapleton/Central Park neighborhoods. Made a boatload of money selling my house and still frequent Denver for work so I get to see experience the growth and new restaurants/breweries but can live in a much nicer house with less traffic and near family.

It's interesting how the pandemic has reshuffled people's priorities and being closer to family certainly seems to be one of the primary drivers. I personally have had family members moving back to Denver to be closer to family, or have made plans to move back in the next couple of years.

Glad you and PlansIT were able to benefit from your moves- Oklahoma isn't my favorite place (too damn flat and humid), though I have enjoyed my time there while attending grad school at OU.

COtoOC · #**12468** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 4:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeFive

The Urban view as apposed the the suburban view, I suspect

Having been in and out of downtown Phoenix over the weekend it is impressive how 'urban' it is becoming. All those new 'tall boys.' There's also a fair amount of "infill" but that is more prominent in areas that are more Cherry Creek-like. Still, long-time down-towners have a lot to talk about so that is nice.

I'm headed to Phoenix next week for spring break and while I've been there numerous times for work, I've never actually driven through downtown. So I was checking it out yesterday on googlemaps... took a nice street tour through downtown. I was impressed with what appears to be a lot of new development, new light rail, entertainment, condos/apartments and street activity. I plan on checking it out!

I personally love the desert landscape there, but avoid it in summer. Like I'd avoid Denver in winter if I didn't live here

SirLucasTheGreat · #**12469** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 4:33 PM**

For whatever it is worth, I think the winters in Denver are much tolerable than virtually any major city in the Midwest or Northeast.

Robert.hampton · #**12470** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

For whatever it is worth, I think the winters in Denver are much tolerable than virtually any major city in the Midwest or Northeast.

I'd go as far as to say Denver winters are better than anywhere outside of California/Florida/Texas/NM/Arizona. And in exchange for all that sunshine you have world class skiing within 5 hours on a Saturday on I70.

wong21fr · #**12471** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 8:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brainpathology

Excuse me for hitting your nerve. I forgot that a lot of people in places like Denver need their safe spaces and musing about my own moments of shame that I'm working with that extra comma/vacation and wonder if "I" am the whore triggers people with molecularly thin skin.

I'm happy for you that literally being sued/the impetus for a teacher being sued if my upcoming children make others uncomfortable and they speak about their "two daddies" in 3rd grade is local politics that you're annoyed at talking about. Lovely that that is so far out of your experience through either being in your blue bubble, or being straight, or childless that you don't have to worry about it and gay parents' worries like mine make me a - what did you say? - a "nerd who lacks social skills, decency, and common sense?" How very typically (Denver's brand of mostly fake) compassionate of you.

One good side effect of this board is that I can see the silver lining of NOT returning if I don't so thanks for that at least.

That's a tough balancing act- being a parent and facing the bigotry that is being used for political hit points. Being a parent is hard enough just in raising a child. I'm sorry that Florida's leadership is using you as such.

I've had some fun experiences with people trying to use my family as the token diversity quota for events so that the white folks feel like they are being inclusive. The performative theatrics are tiresome to say the least.

wong21fr · #**12472** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 8:48 PM**

In developments news, one of the ugliest parking lots front Coors Field might finally be going away:

https://denverite.com/2022/03/22/a-parking-lot-across-coors-field-could-be-cleared-to-build-housing

Quote:

A parking lot near downtown Denver may soon see new life as a mixed-use building with housing and commercial space.

Denver City Council approved rezoning a lot at 2000 Blake St. to allow for an up to eight-story building. Located on the corner of 20th Street and Blake Street, across Coors Field, the new zoning will allow buildings of up to 110 feet, though a project planned for the site calls for something a bit shorter. The lot sits at the edge of the Five Points neighborhood.

Brainpathology · #**12473** Posted **Mar 22, 2022, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I've had some fun experiences with people trying to use my family as the token diversity quota for events so that the white folks feel like they are being inclusive. The performative theatrics are tiresome to say the least.

It’s not “Tolkien”?

I am not looking forward to that kind of thing. Hopefully it doesn’t happen much. That has its own gross feelings that are almost as bad as aggressive in your face bigotry - which is obviously pretty easy to call out. Performative progressivism is harder because sometimes it’s from well meaning ignorance and sometimes it’s just to check a box to hide what your real feelings are. One good thing about this part of the US though is that performative diversity or progressivism isn’t as prevalent as it is in Denver and further west.

Love to see more parking going away around Coors though. It’s always nice to anticipate more housing options when we either move back or retire. I can’t believe I can remember walking around (well, speeding in a locked car) through the area the field is in now. Boggling how much a neighborhood can turn around with effort in only a couple decades. You don’t even need a good team to go with it, you can have the worst owners in the state’s history even.

SirLucasTheGreat · #**12474** Posted **Mar 23, 2022, 1:08 AM**

The CEO of RTD annouced a bunch of security measures at Union Station. Chief among them would be making the Union Station bus concourse a paid fare area with turnstiles. I'm not sure why it was so hard for RTD to implement turnstiles at their light rail stations. Seems like that would have made the trains feel a lot more safe.

wong21fr · #**12475** Posted **Mar 23, 2022, 2:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

The CEO of RTD annouced a bunch of security measures at Union Station. Chief among them would be making the Union Station bus concourse a paid fare area with turnstiles. I'm not sure why it was so hard for RTD to implement turnstiles at their light rail stations. Seems like that would have made the trains feel a lot more safe.

Where did you see this?

EngiNerd · #**12476** Posted **Mar 23, 2022, 3:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Where did you see this?

Here:
https://denverite.com/2022/03/22/rtds-ne...tiles-barriers-no-more-electric-outlets/

BG918 · #**12477** Posted **Mar 23, 2022, 3:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Glad you and PlansIT were able to benefit from your moves- Oklahoma isn't my favorite place (too damn flat and humid), though I have enjoyed my time there while attending grad school at OU.

Come to the eastern part, lots of hills, forests and lakes around Tulsa . Oklahoma is like Colorado in that the two different sides of the state are very different from each other.

wong21fr · #**12478** Posted **Mar 23, 2022, 3:42 PM**

BusinessDen has a preliminary rendering of the 2000 Blake Street Project. Looks pretty nice.

bunt_q · #**12479** Posted **Mar 23, 2022, 3:47 PM**

Should I feel bad for View House? Ha.

jhwk · #**12480** Posted **Mar 23, 2022, 3:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

The CEO of RTD annouced a bunch of security measures at Union Station. Chief among them would be making the Union Station bus concourse a paid fare area with turnstiles. I'm not sure why it was so hard for RTD to implement turnstiles at their light rail stations. Seems like that would have made the trains feel a lot more safe.

Proof of payment for transit fare collection is used over physical controls for two reasons:

First, proof of payment is generally considered more modern and cheaper than fare control structures because building the physical fare control structures and then enforcing them is typically more expensive than the money recovered by more people actually paying.

Second, in RTDs case, the light rail was designed with street segments that have extremely minimal stations, so physical controls were not possible. There was no space in the downtown loop for stations with controlled access unless a lot more money was spent.

The concept, however, was imported from Germany which has much better social cohesion than we do. There is still vagrancy in their transit systems but not to the level we are seeing in Denver.