CHICAGO | City Casino - Page 44

Rizzo · #**861** Posted **Mar 4, 2022, 7:01 PM**

I’m a little confused. The adjacent residential is mostly walled off. Even at a different grade in some places. Isn’t that division almost like an “expressway” or geographical barrier between the two in essence? I suppose you can see the building still. But it would seem south loop neighborhoods are buffered enough from casino activity.

But despite this being my favorite proposal, I can agree that this might be incompatible with the lab and research components originally planned.

west-town-brad · #**862** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 2:05 PM**

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2...mick-place-friends-of-the-parks-irizarry

to the extent that it matters, the "friends of the park" org has come out in favor of the lakeside center casino reuse plan

thegoatman · #**863** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 2:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2...mick-place-friends-of-the-parks-irizarry

to the extent that it matters, the "friends of the park" org has come out in favor of the lakeside center casino reuse plan

I'd be so disappointed if that selection won...literally the most generic boring design. Come on, this is gonna be Chicago's only casino we need to go all out not got soft.

Of course the same group that ran a potential world class museum out of our lakefront in favor of a FUCKING PARKING LOT supports the worst proposal. Too funny.

rgarri4 · #**864** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 3:43 PM**

So they were against a museum of narrative art, but all for a Casino?

BrinChi · #**865** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 4:43 PM**

I support the Lakeside Center proposal mostly for preservation reasons. If McPier believes the center is so essential to stay competitive in attracting conventions, why haven't they been maintaining or renovating it?! There's so much deferred maintenance.

chicagodeckerdude · #**866** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowrock

So do liquor stores, 7-11s and El stops. Your point is?

i wouldnt want to live next to those either.

but also lets talk volume. i think a casino would draw sonctant thousands compared to a small storefront convenience store.

twister244 · #**867** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 5:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagodeckerdude

i wouldnt want to live next to those either.

but also lets talk volume. i think a casino would draw sonctant thousands compared to a small storefront convenience store.

Does a casino really draw the same kind of "riff raf" though? I'm not a huge gambler, but I have yet to go to a casino and see vast hoards of sketchy people hanging out nearby outside. People go, they gamble, spend money, and leave. I feel like the narrative here is a bit hyperbole.

thegoatman · #**868** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244

Does a casino really draw the same kind of "riff raf" though? I'm not a huge gambler, but I have yet to go to a casino and see vast hoards of sketchy people hanging out nearby outside. People go, they gamble, spend money, and leave. I feel like the narrative here is a bit hyperbole.

Lmao of course. People act like they're setting up a crack den with a casino. Especially with one thats gonna be as prestigious as the potential one by the river.

galleyfox · #**869** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 7:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244

Does a casino really draw the same kind of "riff raf" though? I'm not a huge gambler, but I have yet to go to a casino and see vast hoards of sketchy people hanging out nearby outside. People go, they gamble, spend money, and leave. I feel like the narrative here is a bit hyperbole.

It’s more the reverse. Clients will be at risk of being targeted by criminals. The casino will need very high security measures—which is counter to being highly integrated within the neighborhood.

The Loop is a wonderful area, but there are days when dozens of teenagers come downtown on the CTA to start fights and harass people and need several officers on hand to monitor the situation.

A Chicago casino can’t even have the remote possibility of such an incident, or it’s done as a high-end casino. Doesn’t mean it would be a crack den, but many high net worth and prestigious gamblers would steer clear.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox32ch...of-rivers-casino-in-suburban-chicago.amp

OrdoSeclorum · #**870** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 8:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgarri4

So they were against a museum of narrative art, but all for a Casino?

They messed that up so bad that I immediately and instinctively oppose anything "Friends of the Park" supports. It's difficult for me to name another organization that has so thoroughly and completely lost my trust. I suppose people who think the moon landing was faked. And flat Earthers. Kids who kidnap neighborhood dogs and torture them? That sort of company.

twister244 · #**871** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 9:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by galleyfox

It’s more the reverse. Clients will be at risk of being targeted by criminals. The casino will need very high security measures—which is counter to being highly integrated within the neighborhood.

The Loop is a wonderful area, but there are days when dozens of teenagers come downtown on the CTA to start fights and harass people and need several officers on hand to monitor the situation.

A Chicago casino can’t even have the remote possibility of such an incident, or it’s done as a high-end casino. Doesn’t mean it would be a crack den, but many high net worth and prestigious gamblers would steer clear.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox32ch...of-rivers-casino-in-suburban-chicago.amp

Ok, but by that argument, the casino will face that challenge regardless of it's location, correct? If we are assuming people will "target" the casino, then they probably will go to it regardless of it's location. If kids are willing to take a train to the city to start a fight, I'm sure they will go to a casino to rob gamblers independent of the location.

So, by your same argument, the casino will require security regardless of location. And if the casino has sufficient security to keep "riff raff" away...... Then why are people getting upset about it being nearby?

I still don't get it....

west-town-brad · #**872** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 9:59 PM**

teenagers?!

DOWNTOWN?!

galleyfox · #**873** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 10:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244

Ok, but by that argument, the casino will face that challenge regardless of it's location, correct? If we are assuming people will "target" the casino, then they probably will go to it regardless of it's location. If kids are willing to take a train to the city to start a fight, I'm sure they will go to a casino to rob gamblers independent of the location.

So, by your same argument, the casino will require security regardless of location.

Quote:

Casino will face that challenge regardless of its location, correct?

That is not correct.

Security is much simpler when access points are restricted. The 78 has two major public access points that can’t be restricted to the public — Wells-Wentworth and the Red Line.

Whereas a security guard or officer at Bally’s McCormick for example can stop a suspicious person entering Moe Drive or arrest a person trespassing on the Metra tracks. The Bally’s and Hard Rock proposals also have the casino entrances on top of raised decks.

The kids who fight in the Loop are not determined super-criminals. They go to the Loop because they’re bored, and it has easy access to the Red Line. The other CTA lines even in similarly wealthy areas like Logan Square don’t have flash mob problems. A 20 minute walk would deter these teens easily enough.

Not to mention there’s a good chance a Chicago casino will require an ID and possibly an entrance fee.

galleyfox · #**874** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 10:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

teenagers?!

DOWNTOWN?!

It IS a major problem for a casino when those teen groups have a frequent tendency to turn into violent mobs.

Teen Shot, CTA Bus Driver Assaulted in Downtown Chicago Attacks
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcchic...-downtown-chicago-attacks/2700411/%3famp

Hundreds Of Teens Cause Mayhem In Downtown Chicago
https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/hundreds-teens-cause-mayhem-downtown-chicago

'I Was Screaming: "Please, Stop, Stop!"' Woman Describes Pain And Horror As She Was Brutally Beaten By Group Of Teens Downtown This Past Weekend
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews...-downtown-chicago-describes-pain-horror/

west-town-brad · #**875** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 10:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by galleyfox

It IS a major problem for a casino when those teens have a frequent tendency to turn into violent mobs.

Teen Shot, CTA Bus Driver Assaulted in Downtown Chicago Attacks
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcchic...-downtown-chicago-attacks/2700411/%3famp

Hundreds Of Teens Cause Mayhem In Downtown Chicago
https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/hundreds-teens-cause-mayhem-downtown-chicago

'I Was Screaming: "Please, Stop, Stop!"' Woman Describes Pain And Horror As She Was Brutally Beaten By Group Of Teens Downtown This Past Weekend
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews...-downtown-chicago-describes-pain-horror/

I watch the local news so I am aware of the "issue"

nonetheless. easy solve. make the casino 21+ only.

OrdoSeclorum · #**876** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 10:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by galleyfox

It’s more the reverse. Clients will be at risk of being targeted by criminals. The casino will need very high security measures—which is counter to being highly integrated within the neighborhood.

The Loop is a wonderful area, but there are days when dozens of teenagers come downtown on the CTA to start fights and harass people and need several officers on hand to monitor the situation.

A Chicago casino can’t even have the remote possibility of such an incident, or it’s done as a high-end casino. Doesn’t mean it would be a crack den, but many high net worth and prestigious gamblers would steer clear.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox32ch...of-rivers-casino-in-suburban-chicago.amp

It's difficult to understand where this is coming from. For want of a better word, let's call this viewpoint "eccentric." Have you ever *been* to a casino? Most of them are boring as hell. And the ones that aren't boring are probably the last place anyone would ever go to cause trouble. There are hundreds--maybe thousands--of high quality, dutifully monitored cameras and the spaces are swarming with both visible and hard-to-spot security staff. The only people who can successfully get away with crime in a casino are too busy either holding an umbrella while they terrorize Gotham or trying to win back Julia Roberts.

galleyfox · #**877** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 10:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by west-town-brad

I watch the local news so I am aware of the "issue"

nonetheless. easy solve. make the casino 21+ only.

Awesome, how do you enforce that directly outside the casino building in a neighborhood that is supposed to have a college campus.

galleyfox · #**878** Posted **Mar 10, 2022, 11:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrdoSeclorum

It's difficult to understand where this is coming from. For want of a better word, let's call this viewpoint "eccentric." Have you ever *been* to a casino? Most of them are boring as hell. And the ones that aren't boring are probably the last place anyone would ever go to cause trouble. There are hundreds--maybe thousands--of high quality, dutifully monitored cameras and the spaces are swarming with both visible and hard-to-spot security staff. The only people who can successfully get away with crime in a casino are too busy either holding an umbrella while they terrorize Gotham or trying to win back Julia Roberts.

I’ve been to casinos. It’s not the inside of the casino building that’s the problem.

It’s the average typical crime on the streets outside the casino. Robbery, Carjacking, etc. Which is not that big a deal for a person with $300 in their pocket for a Saturday night bar crawl, but intolerable for high rollers with tens of thousands in casino earnings.

We’re not talking crack den dangerous, just “occasional chance a robber could follow you to your car or pull a gun on the corner by the hotel” dangerous. It’s not unheard of even at nice casinos. But a Chicago casino is not going to get the benefit of the doubt if anything at all happens in the first 1-2 years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wgntv.com/n...-of-40k-after-leaving-rivers-casino/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews....ring-year-end-vegas-events%3fcontext=amp

twister244 · #**879** Posted **Mar 11, 2022, 1:19 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by galleyfox

I’ve been to casinos. It’s not the inside of the casino building that’s the problem.

It’s the average typical crime on the streets outside the casino. Robbery, Carjacking, etc. Which is not that big a deal for a person with $300 in their pocket for a Saturday night bar crawl, but intolerable for high rollers with tens of thousands in casino earnings.

We’re not talking crack den dangerous, just “occasional chance a robber could follow you to your car or pull a gun on the corner by the hotel” dangerous. It’s not unheard of even at nice casinos. But a Chicago casino is not going to get the benefit of the doubt if anything at all happens in the first 1-2 years.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wgntv.com/n...-of-40k-after-leaving-rivers-casino/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews....ring-year-end-vegas-events%3fcontext=amp

Ok, then make sure there's police patrol in the area? My question continues to be this:

Is the amount of crime around a casino going to be any worse than on an L train, or an L station, or any other part of downtown late at night? There are problems with crime all over the city, so is a Casino going to make things magically worse for any neighborhood near downtown?

I guess I can kinda see why one might be concerned about crime if proper steps aren't taken. But I go back to my point I made several days ago - If you are this concerned with crime, then you probably shouldn't be living in the city in the first place.

Also - If you walk out of the casino with $40k in cash - You are a fucking moron for doing that. Not surprised that guy got robbed.

generallogan · #**880** Posted **Mar 11, 2022, 4:52 AM**

Rivers at McCormick is by far and away the best choice:

1. The building is already there. It can be up and running in a year (which brings in tax revenue sooner and jump starts convention business after the pandemic).

2. The environment. McCormick is the greenest, most environmentally-friendly solution as a reuse of an existing building.

3. Safety. Limited access points for people that aren't going there to gamble.

4. Access from existing infrastructure. Feeder ramps directly off 90/94 to 55 and LSD. Again, the number of gamblers they are talking about needed to break even will arrive via cars not kayaks. We want to attract midwesterner drivers for a 2-night stay - not Chicagoans via the redline - to lose their money in a casino.

5. Easiest to get approved. No existing NIMBYs for McCormick Place East as it already exists, no neighbors to offend other than the butterflies in the garden directly south.