Vancouver and Clark County

[CorbinWarrick]

My goodness Vancouver’s waterfront is completely demolishing Portlands. It’s not even close at this point. Our waterfront is so boring and bland. Just concrete and grass

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by AcmeGreg

Port of Vancouver's Terminal 1 waterfront projects move ahead

Tim Gordon | KGW News | April 27, 2021

You have to admire how Vancouver is moving ahead with this ambitious development - including an impressively-scaled public market. Meanwhile over the past 20-some years Portland has gotten absolutely nowhere with its own James Beard Market and our downtown core continues to be boarded up and held hostage by homeless camps and several hundred anarchists. But hey, we're constructing a tall & shiny "transformational" hotel/home/spa for the wealthy! Hmmm.[/QUOTE]

I feel like the failure of the James Beard Market has more to do with the James Beard group than it does Portland. Each time that project came up as a new thing, it always seemed like they were banking on Portland to pay for it all for them and that was never going to happen.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

My goodness Vancouver’s waterfront is completely demolishing Portlands. It’s not even close at this point. Our waterfront is so boring and bland. Just concrete and grass

I don't know if I would go that far, Vancouver's new waterfront is more in line as a small version of South Waterfront.

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

I don't know if I would go that far, Vancouver's new waterfront is more in line as a small version of South Waterfront.

What does our waterfront have? It doesn’t even connect with the water. No food carts, no playground sets, Ferris wheel, no cool exercise area, nothing.. just endless concrete and grass.. it’s extremely underwhelming

[RED_PDXer]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

What does our waterfront have? It doesn’t even connect with the water. No food carts, no playground sets, Ferris wheel, no cool exercise area, nothing.. just endless concrete and grass.. it’s extremely underwhelming

I made a visit to Vancouver's waterfront earlier this year and it was completely underwhelming. It's a fairly isolated bit of development with some standard architecture. I think I spent 20 minutes there, only because my dog stopped to pee on everything he could. It may be transformational compared to what sat there before, but I'm not calling mom about it and I'm not going back.

As for Portland's waterfront, it's mostly about Waterfront Park, which is basically set up for summer events and not much else. Waterfront Park is an improvement (transformational) over the old highway that sat on the seawall before 1975ish, but it's scarcely been touched since then. I can at least stand a few feet from the water at the park, albeit elevated way above it. As a park, and not private development, don't expect changes anytime soon.

The epic 2035 Central City Plan update supposedly allowed for more innovative use of the park area like steps down to the water (at least from some visuals I saw at one point in the 8+years of planning), but it's impossible to know for sure without slogging through 100's of pages of documents. Even then, nothing is going to happen without a whole lot of money and (even more) planning and design (you can just imagine the process needed to make everyone bored stiff to see that through).

The best part of Waterfront Park is the area where the Saturday Market now resides which was redone in the last decade. Look forward to a future Parks bond measure to see anything else happen since it's a public asset.

Elsewhere, the city really doesn't want people in or close to the water, despite the obvious pent up demand evidenced by the countless bodies packed on that sad single boat ramp by OMSI on warm sunny days. It's mostly for the fish, birds, and plants.

I could see the eastside waterfront going a different path someday since development could bring the upgrades to make the waterfront exciting, but that would obviously require removing I-5 or burying it underground. It's hard to see that happening when the city can't even keep the streets clean.

Zidell Yards had a pretty awesome waterfront component but the city didn't bring enough money to the table even though it was mostly TIF (tax-increment funding generated by taxes on the development).

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by RED_PDXer

I made a visit to Vancouver's waterfront earlier this year and it was completely underwhelming. It's a fairly isolated bit of development with some standard architecture. I think I spent 20 minutes there, only because my dog stopped to pee on everything he could. It may be transformational compared to what sat there before, but I'm not calling mom about it and I'm not going back.

As for Portland's waterfront, it's mostly about Waterfront Park, which is basically set up for summer events and not much else. Waterfront Park is an improvement (transformational) over the old highway that sat on the seawall before 1975ish, but it's scarcely been touched since then. I can at least stand a few feet from the water at the park, albeit elevated way above it. As a park, and not private development, don't expect changes anytime soon.

The epic 2035 Central City Plan update supposedly allowed for more innovative use of the park area like steps down to the water (at least from some visuals I saw at one point in the 8+years of planning), but it's impossible to know for sure without slogging through 100's of pages of documents. Even then, nothing is going to happen without a whole lot of money and (even more) planning and design (you can just imagine the process needed to make everyone bored stiff to see that through).

The best part of Waterfront Park is the area where the Saturday Market now resides which was redone in the last decade. Look forward to a future Parks bond measure to see anything else happen since it's a public asset.

Elsewhere, the city really doesn't want people in or close to the water, despite the obvious pent up demand evidenced by the countless bodies packed on that sad single boat ramp by OMSI on warm sunny days. It's mostly for the fish, birds, and plants.

I could see the eastside waterfront going a different path someday since development could bring the upgrades to make the waterfront exciting, but that would obviously require removing I-5 or burying it underground. It's hard to see that happening when the city can't even keep the streets clean.

Zidell Yards had a pretty awesome waterfront component but the city didn't bring enough money to the table even though it was mostly TIF (tax-increment funding generated by taxes on the development).

Vancouver’s waterfront has made incredible strides as you mentioned, and the parking lots between it and Esther Short Park will be developed soon, creating a glorious bike/ped corridor. Portland's needs a wholesale change. Activate Naito; no more cars & empty parking lots. Vancouver Washington’s waterfront already has a bunch of restaurants right on it as well. Their waterfront is SO vibrant now. Once it's bike/ped-connected to Esther Short Park, it'll be even MORE of a game changer.

For example, ALL city planners and elected officials in Portland should be *required* to visit Vancouver, BC and see its many amazing waterfront areas first-hand. Both downtown Vancouvers' waterfronts in MY HUMBLE opinion *destroy* Portland's.

[Rob Nob]

As a local architect who has worked a lot in both Vancouver, WA and Portland;
Portland can be very strict about design standards in areas of the city that are very important to it's character. Some say they go to far but my own experiences say that is the exception.
For building code, Portland is very flexible and reasonable upon appeal in most cases.
Vancouver is really happy any development is happening and you can usually get the city agree to even not meeting parts of their zoning code. If the design is halfway decent they green light it without any rigorous design review.
When it comes to building code, Vancouver is timid about appeals that get through easily in other jurisdictions and you have to have a couple of meetings explaining how it is a standard appeal and they ask for tons of back up info and specifics.

[maccoinnich]

Originally Posted by Rob Nob

For building code, Portland is very flexible and reasonable upon appeal in most cases.

For all that people (rightly) complain about BDS, Portland's Building Code Appeals process is excellent in my experience.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

What does our waterfront have? It doesn’t even connect with the water. No food carts, no playground sets, Ferris wheel, no cool exercise area, nothing.. just endless concrete and grass.. it’s extremely underwhelming

It's open space greenery, it does actually connect with the river along the southern end of downtown. Then there is the full circle walking/jogging/biking path that runs on both sides of the river. Then of course there are a ton of events that happen each year along the waterfront that uses the open space, Rose Festival, Beerfest, Jazzfest, and so on.

So it isn't something I would call "underwhelming."

[CouvScott]

https://thewaterfrontvancouverusa.com/about/history/#drone

[CouvScott]

Modera Vancouver will have 268 units and a 7th-floor pool
By Will Campbell, Columbian Innovation Editor
Published: December 12, 2021, 6:04am


The Modera Vancouver building will be on Block 21, on the northwestern corner of the Waterfront Vancouver development. It will provide 14 stories of mostly apartments. Construction is expected to start in August of next year, said Sam Rodriguez, senior managing director of Mill Creek Residential, the developer of the project. It will be the third tallest building (apart from grain silos and other non-occupied structures) in the city.
The Modera Vancouver building will be on Block 21, on the northwestern corner of the Waterfront Vancouver development. It will provide 14 stories of mostly apartments. Construction is expected to start in August of next year, said Sam Rodriguez, senior managing director of Mill Creek Residential, the developer of the project. It will be the third tallest building (apart from grain silos and other non-occupied structures) in the city.


The Modera Vancouver building will be on Block 21, on the northwestern edge of the development, and will house 14 stories of mostly apartments. Construction is expected to start in August of next year, said Sam Rodriguez, senior managing director of Mill Creek Residential, the developer of the project.

Plans submitted to the city of Vancouver show that Modera will have 268 units of studio, one-bedroom and two-bedroom apartments. The average size of the units is 750 square feet.

The building will measure 156.75 feet tall, the tallest building at the Waterfront Vancouver development and the city’s third-tallest building behind Smith Tower and 805 Broadway building (not including grain silo towers, antennas and other non-occupied structures). The Federal Aviation Administration’s maximum height is 162 feet for that block, according to the application to the city.

“It will be the first residential high-rise type 1 construction,” Rodriguez said. “We want to capitalize on the views. We wanted some verticality.”

Portland-based Ankrom Moisan Architects was hired for the development project and provided renderings to the city. The look and details of the project are subject to change as the building works its way through the permitting process.

Modera’s plans mention a pool and hot tub on the seventh floor, as well as 265 parking stalls. The ground floor will hold 2,400 square feet of retail. The top floor will also be some of the first “true penthouses” in the city with high-end luxury and space that’s on a high level, Rodriguez said. The building will most likely be LEED-certified, he said.

Modera Vancouver will be Mill Creek’s first Vancouver building, and the company is eyeing other properties in the city, Rodriguez said. Mill Creek is a national multifamily developer in 17 markets nationwide, with more than 2,000 units.

The building will participate in the Multifamily Tax Exemption Program from the city and offer a portion of the apartments to low-income renters.

Mill Creek is in the process of purchasing the block, among the last handful of properties still for sale at the Waterfront Vancouver.


Rodriguez said he had been eyeing a development project at the waterfront, but he didn’t want to be one of the first developers there. The rate at which the retail spots have been filling up and the high occupancy rates in nearby buildings have made Mill Creek confident in the investment.

“We think Vancouver is poised for growth,” Rodriguez said. “The tax differentiation between Portland and Vancouver is going to help build up the city of Vancouver.”

[urbanlife]

Third tallest? Clearly I don't know how tall any building is in Vancouver. I know there is serious height restrictions, but I don't know what they are. I will say, it would be nice to see downtown Couve expand into a legit second city for the metro (though I am rooting for Salem and Eugene to finally embrace being actual cities) and develop a skyline presence and urban downtown environment.

[Rob Nob]

Pearson field is the reason for most the height restrictions and they won't likely be relaxed ever. Pearson is one of the oldest airfields in the US and has historic designations protecting it.

[CorbinWarrick]

Wow Portland take note how Vancouver is doing their waterfront. Really amazing the difference

[CouvScott]

https://thewaterfrontvancouverusa.com/about/history/#drone

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by CouvScott

https://thewaterfrontvancouverusa.com/about/history/#drone

Thanks for this! Really unbelievable the transformation Vancouver has done with their waterfront. Beautiful

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

Wow Portland take note how Vancouver is doing their waterfront. Really amazing the difference

It looks nice, but I am not sure what you are talking about with Portland's waterfront? Tom McCall Park? Riverplace? SoWa? River District?

The development in Vancouver is on par with Slabtown that is going up in the Northwest District.

[CorbinWarrick]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

It looks nice, but I am not sure what you are talking about with Portland's waterfront? Tom McCall Park? Riverplace? SoWa? River District?

The development in Vancouver is on par with Slabtown that is going up in the Northwest District.

Yea pretty much all of it

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by CorbinWarrick

Yea pretty much all of it

I don't see anything the size of the buildings in SoWa going up in Vancouver's waterfront. The stuff that is along River District is pretty expansive collection of buildings. Tom McCall Park is versatile and a great outdoor asset for the city. Riverplace is a great urban district along the waterfront that will be experiencing a facelift in the coming years as the more suburban parts come down.

Along the eastside, it is mostly industrial focused uses, but there will be the redevelopment of the OMSI property that will create a new urban district bigger than what is going on in Vancouver.

What Vancouver is doing for Vancouver is wonderful, but in no way would I consider it to be more than what Portland has done and will do with their waterfront.


If you want to compare this waterfront to Portland, it is about the same size of the River District and North Pearl, land wise, and the River District and North Pearl is a heavily developed area along the river with tons of tall buildings.

[urbanlife]

I know the waterfront is getting all the attention these days, but what is the buildings that went up at 8th and Washington in downtown. I was looking at Google Maps and noticed that it shows that whole block under construction.