Oakridge Park | 13 Towers | 154m | 52fl | 5M sqft | U/C

[GenWhy?]

Speaking of cycling and Oakridge mall... I assume another 5-year network plan will be coming out after the next election. Ontario and Cambie are to be modified, but nothing yet penciled in for an east-west route upgrade - probably 37th to get upgrades - but how is one to cycling to and around the new development in an east-west fashion?

43rd west of Oak and 44th east of Cambie?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Does it look like Amsterdam in the 1970s had an abundance of space for bike lanes? I am sure many people thought it was crazy to remove car lanes for bike lanes, especially since the percentage of trips taken by bike had fallen in the Netherlands by 50% over 20 years.

photo source

Vancouver has 169 precipitation days compared to Amsterdam's 132. An increase for sure, but it's clear that precipitation is not the barrier to cycling that you claim it is.

Although congestion is bad for the environment, there is no better argument for getting out of your car and walking, cycling, or riding transit to your destination than a street clogged with cars.

Vancouver has a better cycle network than most cities in North America, but that is not saying much. A lot of those cycle lanes are "sharrows" where cyclists have to navigate mobile or parked cars. Ask any cyclist whether riding in the city is safe and they will describe cars parked in bike lanes, getting "doored", and cars turning across the cyclist's right of way. Many people want to cycle more, but they are nervous to ride in mixed traffic. Maybe we should remove all downtown traffic except for delivery vehicles and public transit so that we can truly prioritize bikes and pedestrians. We know this would have no impact on you since you don't come downtown anymore.

And yet the total amount of yearly precipitation in Vancouver is close to 3x that of Amsterdam....

And unlike a city founded in 12th century, Vancouver (especially the post-war areas like Oakridge) was designed for cars a huge difference from trying to fit cars into a medieval street network.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by FarmerHaight

Does it look like Amsterdam in the 1970s had an abundance of space for bike lanes? I am sure many people thought it was crazy to remove car lanes for bike lanes, especially since the percentage of trips taken by bike had fallen in the Netherlands by 50% over 20 years.

photo source

Vancouver has 169 precipitation days compared to Amsterdam's 132. An increase for sure, but it's clear that precipitation is not the barrier to cycling that you claim it is.

Although congestion is bad for the environment, there is no better argument for getting out of your car and walking, cycling, or riding transit to your destination than a street clogged with cars.

Vancouver has a better cycle network than most cities in North America, but that is not saying much. A lot of those cycle lanes are "sharrows" where cyclists have to navigate mobile or parked cars. Ask any cyclist whether riding in the city is safe and they will describe cars parked in bike lanes, getting "doored", and cars turning across the cyclist's right of way. Many people want to cycle more, but they are nervous to ride in mixed traffic. Maybe we should remove all downtown traffic except for delivery vehicles and public transit so that we can truly prioritize bikes and pedestrians. We know this would have no impact on you since you don't come downtown anymore.

If you have been to Amsterdam in recent times, you should see the kinds of bike facilities avaialable there, the extents of commuter and intercity train network to nearby towns and cities by Nederlandse Spoorwegen, the tram & LRT systems within the city, as well as the very high density neighbourhoods they build within and on the outskirts of Amsterdam. If Vancouver is not addressing these things and taking large concrete steps to improve them, they cannot simply remove viaducts and vehicular lanes, then call it a day to think that we are now the Greenest City, then hope for the best.

For instance, unlike Amsterdam, we are not situated on flat terrain. Hence is the City trying to make it easier to commute via biking by giving lots of incentives to own Electric Bikes?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And yet the total amount of yearly precipitation in Vancouver is close to 3x that of Amsterdam....

And unlike a city founded in 12th century, Vancouver (especially the post-war areas like Oakridge) was designed for cars a huge difference from trying to fit cars into a medieval street network.

Vancouver's average precipitation is 797.5mm. Amsterdam's is 549.7mm. That's not close to 3x - it's not even 1.5x.

With the city's streets laid out in a grid, it's way easier to allocate space to safe bicycle routes than it is in old medieval street network.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Vancouver's average precipitation is 797.5mm. Amsterdam's is 549.7mm. That's not close to 3x - it's not even 1.5x.

With the city's streets laid out in a grid, it's way easier to allocate space to safe bicycle routes than it is in old medieval street network.

Nope. You seem to be looking at data for 2018 specifically.

In Vancouver, the average annual temperature is 9.5 °C | 49.2 °F. In a year, the rainfall is 2351 mm | 92.6 inch

The average annual temperature in Amsterdam is 10.7 °C | 51.2 °F. The annual rainfall is 844 mm | 33.2 inch.

[vanman]

The Burrard Bridge is the busiest cycling route in North America and it is by no means on flat terrain.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Nope. You seem to be looking at data for 2018 specifically.

In Vancouver, the average annual temperature is 9.5 °C | 49.2 °F. In a year, the rainfall is 2351 mm | 92.6 inch

The average annual temperature in Amsterdam is 10.7 °C | 51.2 °F. The annual rainfall is 844 mm | 33.2 inch.

Your source for Vancouver appears to be inaccurate (too high) as was mine (too low). Mine said it was 1985-2015, not a single year. Your source for Amnsterdam is lower than any other I can find: most are 840 - 850mm. Here's Environment Canada data for 30 years to 2010 for Oakridge, as that's where you were citing. 1,457 mm per year over a 30 year period. So not 3x Amsterdam, maybe double.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It would be nice if they built a taller office tower to establish a more prominent office presence for this town centre.

The report on the rezoning approved yesterday (Councillor Harwick opposed, if anybody had a bet on the result), confirms that the form of the new replacement office building on the NE corner is the same as the one they're demolishing: "The NE Office Building, now proposed to be a wholly new building rather than a major renovation, will follow the form previously proposed with a two-storey increase in height." There is a render: it's a glass-clad triangular box. The total office space overall is now over 800,000 sq. ft., which is almost twice the previous version of the project. (The residential Building 5 will now have 52 storeys. The detailed design awaits a Development Permit application.)

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Your source for Vancouver appears to be inaccurate (too high) as was mine (too low). Mine said it was 1985-2015, not a single year. Your source for Amnsterdam is lower than any other I can find: most are 840 - 850mm. Here's Environment Canada data for 30 years to 2010 for Oakridge, as that's where you were citing. 1,457 mm per year over a 30 year period. So not 3x Amsterdam, maybe double.

Yes, it seems as though my figure is from the highest MetroVancouver amount, the North Shore. Still double the amount of rainfall is a significant variance, as is Vancouver's topography from Amsterdam's.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by vanman

The Burrard Bridge is the busiest cycling route in North America and it is by no means on flat terrain.

Just going to point out that 5,662 cyclists a day (~3k on average last month; I believe the peak is 9k) against 55,000 drivers and 21,500 bus passengers isn't much of an accomplishment. By all means, let's continue to add bike lanes, but the ROI is fairly low so far.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The report on the rezoning approved yesterday (Councillor Harwick opposed, if anybody had a bet on the result), confirms that the form of the new replacement office building on the NE corner is the same as the one they're demolishing: "The NE Office Building, now proposed to be a wholly new building rather than a major renovation, will follow the form previously proposed with a two-storey increase in height." There is a render: it's a glass-clad triangular box. The total office space overall is now over 800,000 sq. ft., which is almost twice the previous version of the project. (The residential Building 5 will now have 52 storeys. The detailed design awaits a Development Permit application.)

I think the 800,000 sq ft of office is across all of the various tower podiums plus office block.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think the 800,000 sq ft of office is across all of the various tower podiums plus office block.

It is. The additional floorspace (over the previous version) is a little more on the NE office building, (two extra floors), and much more in the residential building podiums.

[GenWhy?]

Definitely a decent amount of office/commerial and hotel proposed in the area, including on the mall site, for such an area competing from scratch with downtown / Broadway, and will be interesting to see wat gets not only proposed, but built along Heather Street in the other mixed-use "high street" area

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

Vancouver's average precipitation is 797.5mm. Amsterdam's is 549.7mm. That's not close to 3x - it's not even 1.5x.

With the city's streets laid out in a grid, it's way easier to allocate space to safe bicycle routes than it is in old medieval street network.

Medieval street network allows a cozier commute, and commute distances are generally a lot closer compared to the sprawl that we have here. That's one of the reasons that those European cities are so successful in getting people to bike in the first place.

Also, double the wetness means double the unwillingness to cycle, and that is substantial.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

its pretty obvious we are a fair-weather biking city. just open your eyes and look at the usage in the fall/winter when it is raining. more or less a ghost town. there are some hardcore ones, but by far most disappear.

[rofina]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

its pretty obvious we are a fair-weather biking city. just open your eyes and look at the usage in the fall/winter when it is raining. more or less a ghost town. there are some hardcore ones, but by far most disappear.

I was going to say this. I pedal here fair weather, but the winter months are just a drag. Dark. Cold, incredibly wet. You really have to be committed and be bothered to kit out fully to cycle to work. I definitely see it, its certainly not zero. You also have to work in a building with a gym or shower facility, as well as secure bike storage. This is definitely growing and improving, but not a given in every location. The drop off from summer to winter months is sizeable to say the least.

I'm not sure how inclined the general person would be to kit out and pedal as a normal standard year round, if most who are already bikers are fair weather. That means you're two steps removed from the goal, most still drive and cant fathom to pedal in the best of weather, let alone winter.

The jump from drive to pedal is much easier even for someone like me, than the jump from fair weather to winter. I'm not willing to do that. Its miserable.

[GenWhy?]

Okkkay... so apparently Heather Street is the N-S bike route through the mall area, along with Willow, and then 46th-45th Ave is the southern edge E-W route.

[mcminsen]

March 3 '22, my pics

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yes, it seems as though my figure is from the highest MetroVancouver amount, the North Shore. Still double the amount of rainfall is a significant variance, as is Vancouver's topography from Amsterdam's.

There is also a large amount of variance within Metro Vancouver. I believe the North Shore gets much more rain than Vancouver proper, which gets much more rain than Richmond.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Just going to point out that 5,662 cyclists a day (~3k on average last month; I believe the peak is 9k) against 55,000 drivers and 21,500 bus passengers isn't much of an accomplishment. By all means, let's continue to add bike lanes, but the ROI is fairly low so far.

The 'I' is also very low compared to how much you have to spend on roads or even transit. And the 'R' increases exponentially with improvements to the network thanks to the network effect.

One also needs to factor in that a bike can do about 2000 mpg in terms of energy efficiency. Why would not want to encourage the most energy-efficient form of transparent ever invented?