Oakridge Park | 13 Towers | 154m | 52fl | 5M sqft | U/C

[svlt]

I think the plastic straw and cups are more to do with oceanic waste than CO2. Yes concrete is a massive contributor to CO2 but it is a one time construction, I wouldn't think society's solution is to just build fewer structures but find alternative construction methods/materials.

If we had to trade enviro-points I'd much rather get a project like this and live with paper straws than the other way around.

[officedweller]

With the demolition rather than just recladding, do you think they considered increasing the office sapce with a taller office tower?

[Klazu]

It's all just green washing and fake action with Vancouver politicians, but they do get away with it as people in generally are dumb and buy everything they are being told. Even building bike lanes produces a lot more CO2 due to increasing congestion and all the energy required to build the bikeway infrastructure and all those battery-powered ebikes. Doing nothing would be more environmentally friendly than what Vancouver (and politician for that matter) are doing.

[Zepfancouver]

Video by Coco Sweet. I think the date is wrong on his video, maybe the day before mcminsen's set of photos.

• Video Link

[officedweller]

Is it weird they're demolishing from the side instead of top down?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by officedweller

With the demolition rather than just recladding, do you think they considered increasing the office sapce with a taller office tower?

The most recent version of the plan for Oakridge Park (in fall 2021) reduced the amount of retail, but increased the office space from 433,176 sq ft. to 810,436 sq ft. That was partly going to be achieved by adding two floors to the existing office (the structure that's now being demolished).

One possible reason they're now replacing that frame is that once the old cladding had been removed and the engineers were able to inspect it, they concluded that there were seismic issues (or concrete strength problems) that were more easily addressed by replacing rather than retro-fitting it. It appears to be a similar structural design to the East Wing of City Hall that was demolished five years ago, and had been built a few years earlier than this. The issue there was inadequate shear walls within the structure, which would have been very difficult and very costly to upgrade.

The decision to replace rather than upgrade the building will have a rational explanation because neither Quadreal or Westbank would willingly throw money away. While it seems wasteful, the concrete and steel will be recycled, and the old cladding was going to be replaced in any event. It will be interesting to see what the new designs for the replacement building will look like. It's not constrained by the old frame, so it'll be interesting to see if it has a different footprint or configuration.

(There doesn't seem to be a preferred pattern of demolition. Frames like that are sometimes demolished from one side across, rather than top down - they did the same at the Plaza of nations in 2008, and once the tower was down on The Landmark they did the same there too).

[sim]

Originally Posted by Klazu

It's all just green washing and fake action with Vancouver politicians, but they do get away with it as people in generally are dumb and buy everything they are being told. Even building bike lanes produces a lot more CO2due to increasing congestion and all the energy required to build the bikeway infrastructure and all those battery-powered ebikes . Doing nothing would be more environmentally friendly than what Vancouver (and politician for that matter) are doing.

Did you ever wonder where you fit in there? Honestly, just shut the fuck up.

[cov]

Originally Posted by sim

Did you ever wonder where you fit in there? Honestly, just shut the fuck up.

boomers refuse to not drive but also refuse to make way for better modes of transportation. They complain about bike lanes but never the asphalt and concrete used to expand roads. They are using co2 emissions as the excuse now, but watch how they react when entire lanes on arterial roads become bus-only.

selfish people using environmental bs to maintain personal privileges is what I call real greenwashing.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Changing City

The most recent version of the plan for Oakridge Park (in fall 2021) reduced the amount of retail, but increased the office space from 433,176 sq ft. to 810,436 sq ft ..

One possible reason they're now replacing that frame is that once the old cladding had been removed and the engineers were able to inspect it, they concluded that there were seismic issues ...

(There doesn't seem to be a preferred pattern of demolition. Frames like that are sometimes demolished from one side across, rather than top down - they did the same at the Plaza of nations in 2008, and once the tower was down on The Landmark they did the same there too).

I figured as much re: the reason for demolition. It would be nice if they built a taller office tower to establish a more prominent office presence for this town centre.

For the sideways demo, I was just thinking this one is quite tall to be demolished from the side (long way for the debris to fall).

[vanman]

Originally Posted by Changing City

One possible reason they're now replacing that frame is that once the old cladding had been removed and the engineers were able to inspect it, they concluded that there were seismic issues (or concrete strength problems) that were more easily addressed by replacing rather than retro-fitting it. It appears to be a similar structural design to the East Wing of City Hall that was demolished five years ago, and had been built a few years earlier than this. The issue there was inadequate shear walls within the structure, which would have been very difficult and very costly to upgrade.

The decision to replace rather than upgrade the building will have a rational explanation because neither Quadreal or Westbank would willingly throw money away. While it seems wasteful, the concrete and steel will be recycled, and the old cladding was going to be replaced in any event. It will be interesting to see what the new designs for the replacement building will look like. It's not constrained by the old frame, so it'll be interesting to see if it has a different footprint or configuration.

Thanks for this explanation. Hopefully all the pearl-clutchers in this thread will find it helpful.

[WarrenC12]

Does concrete (and the rebar inside) get recycled in any meaningful manner?

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Does concrete (and the rebar inside) get recycled in any meaningful manner?

It's not guaranteed, but it's usually the case on any larger jobs these days, and it's a requirement in the City of Vancouver (to get a demolition permit). That's why you often see the material crushed on site on larger projects with a crushing and screening machine. The crushed material is used for sub-footings for roads, for example, and the steel is easily recycled by metal recyclers. There are several companies offering the service, but most demolition companies can also process material either on, or off site. (If you've got 100 tonnes of material the City is looking to take crushed concrete for free, for the roads at their landfill).

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

wow, does anyone else think this is crazy? i mean in a supposed green city Vancouver doesn't actually do anything green. they talk, raise taxes, and they do token measures that amount to nothing. when it comes to actual things, they always do nothing.

think of all the CO2 that concrete would have created plus the steel used as well. according to the EPA there was 900-1100kg of CO2/1000kg of Portland cement produced(page 6)... the building is less than 40yrs old... it is just crazy to me that a supposed "climate emergency city" just doesn't care about these things, but they care about that plastic bag or that paper cup. insanity.

i mean its more or less par for the course. actually doing things costs money as they'd loose development fees with this development i am sure. so its easier to just create useless taxes, on already over stretched citizens, that do nothing for anything.

You've noticed that, huh? Hyprocrisy is a way of life for COV. Just a bastion for special interest groups, and virtrue signalling. Anyone else, is just a source of cash to fund various pet projects and unicorn initiatives.

[Feathered Friend]

March 1st, 2022 Public Hearing – Vancouver Explores New Heights To Heal The Hole In Its Wooden Heart
Public Hearing – March 1st, 2022
If you know the difference between a text amendment that fixes a simple error in a city bylaw vs one that allows for hundreds of rental homes, well then you’ll understand how important this night is. Conversely, if you’ve been doomscrolling the Russian invasion of Ukraine, like a normal person, then you might appreciate this post. Either way, Hannah and I think you could probably skip Item #1, as it remedies a previously approved set of bylaws.

Though be warned. you might miss Item #2, as this plan to transform a couple detached homes beside Women and Children’s Hospital hasn’t drawn any public feedback (pg 6). Which is typical for these Cambie Corridor Plan projects, and why Item #3 is so unusual. It’s drawn not only the ire of those who feel townhomes are too tall to be located near VanDusen Botanical Garden’s south parking lot (pg 8), but also those who worried it displaces too many renters.

Their solution is that our elected officials should reject this proposal, and permit a taller project that could let these residents return home one day. They have a point, as Item #4 is a perfect example of how a couple extra floors can result in hundreds of affordable homes. After nearly a decade, this “text amendment” might mark a fitting end to this 15 year long process (pg 2), yet that will be determined by your comments if you make them heard.

Backlash Expectations

Item 4 – CD-1 Text Amendment: 650 West 41st Avenue – Low
Most of the opposition has dropped away on this long road, as they think it’s too congested

https://cityduo.wordpress.com/2022/02/28...ts-to-heal-the-hole-in-its-wooden-heart/

[seamusmcduff]

Originally Posted by cov

boomers refuse to not drive but also refuse to make way for better modes of transportation. They complain about bike lanes but never the asphalt and concrete used to expand roads. They are using co2 emissions as the excuse now, but watch how they react when entire lanes on arterial roads become bus-only.

selfish people using environmental bs to maintain personal privileges is what I call real greenwashing.

Lol right. Bikes and E-bikes, famous for requiring more pavement and asphalt than cars, and producing more CO2 per trip.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

Lol right. Bikes and E-bikes, famous for requiring more pavement and asphalt than cars, and producing more CO2 per trip.

I can't believe I missed that satirical post from Klazu. He's obviously being humorous... right???

[Marshal]

Be gentle, be kind: some people exhibit so much negativity and self-centred complaining that I think we should just send positive vibes and Kum ba yah to them. Like a medicine or a nutrient. It's a waste of time but what else? Did I say it was a waste of time? Well, yah, OK, right.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by sim

Did you ever wonder where you fit in there? Honestly, just shut the fuck up.

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

Lol right. Bikes and E-bikes, famous for requiring more pavement and asphalt than cars, and producing more CO2 per trip.

Originally Posted by cov

boomers refuse to not drive but also refuse to make way for better modes of transportation. They complain about bike lanes but never the asphalt and concrete used to expand roads. They are using co2 emissions as the excuse now, but watch how they react when entire lanes on arterial roads become bus-only.

selfish people using environmental bs to maintain personal privileges is what I call real greenwashing.

Problem is, are all the bike lanes here fully utilized like those you see in European cities like Amsterdam or Copenhagen? Does the City provide safe and convenient facilities for the cyclists, such as affordable pay-parking and shower facilities? Are there numbers showing more people biking to work, school or shop now? How do you account for the unwillingness of people cycling to commute in a rainy & undulating city such as Vancouver.

In truth, whenever I walk along the busy downtown streets, I mostly see very empty bicycle lanes while the vehicular ones are clogged with traffic. Aren't idle vehicles bad for the environment, as well as stressful for those inside?

I don't think the City has done much to address these, but just keep building bike lanes and shoving the idea into people's heads.

I'm not against bike lanes, but I'm against things that don't make sense, and people willingly succumbing to nonsense and propaganda.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

It's not guaranteed, but it's usually the case on any larger jobs these days, and it's a requirement in the City of Vancouver (to get a demolition permit). That's why you often see the material crushed on site on larger projects with a crushing and screening machine. The crushed material is used for sub-footings for roads, for example, and the steel is easily recycled by metal recyclers. There are several companies offering the service, but most demolition companies can also process material either on, or off site. (If you've got 100 tonnes of material the City is looking to take crushed concrete for free, for the roads at their landfill).

I would really like to see City publications on how the concrete and steel are recycled; ie. the tonnage of items recycled versus that ending up in landfills.

Otherwise everything else like the bike lanes is just greenwash or hogwash. It is just amazing that a city with so few good concrete structures continue to demolish those that have a good lifespan left in them. In fact, with upgrades, concrete buildings can literally last way longer than their so-called lifespan. Otherwise the Empire State Building would've crumbled to dust by now.

[FarmerHaight]

Originally Posted by Vin

Problem is, are all the bike lanes here fully utilized like those you see in European cities like Amsterdam or Copenhagen? Does the City provide safe and convenient facilities for the cyclists, such as affordable pay-parking and shower facilities? Are there numbers showing more people biking to work, school or shop now? How do you account for the unwillingness of people cycling to commute in a rainy & undulating city such as Vancouver.

In truth, whenever I walk along the busy downtown streets, I mostly see very empty bicycle lanes while the vehicular ones are clogged with traffic. Aren't idle vehicles bad for the environment, as well as stressful for those inside?

I don't think the City has done much to address these, but just keep building bike lanes and shoving the idea into people's heads.

I'm not against bike lanes, but I'm against things that don't make sense, and people willingly succumbing to nonsense and propaganda.

Does it look like Amsterdam in the 1970s had an abundance of space for bike lanes? I am sure many people thought it was crazy to remove car lanes for bike lanes, especially since the percentage of trips taken by bike had fallen in the Netherlands by 50% over 20 years.

photo source

Vancouver has 169 precipitation days compared to Amsterdam's 132. An increase for sure, but it's clear that precipitation is not the barrier to cycling that you claim it is.

Although congestion is bad for the environment, there is no better argument for getting out of your car and walking, cycling, or riding transit to your destination than a street clogged with cars.

Vancouver has a better cycle network than most cities in North America, but that is not saying much. A lot of those cycle lanes are "sharrows" where cyclists have to navigate mobile or parked cars. Ask any cyclist whether riding in the city is safe and they will describe cars parked in bike lanes, getting "doored", and cars turning across the cyclist's right of way. Many people want to cycle more, but they are nervous to ride in mixed traffic. Maybe we should remove all downtown traffic except for delivery vehicles and public transit so that we can truly prioritize bikes and pedestrians. We know this would have no impact on you since you don't come downtown anymore.