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  #241  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
My urbanism is walking to near-distance services, biking to medium-distance services, and public transitting to long-distance services. A city with 'good' urbanism doesn't require car ownership or usage.
If that is in fact true, it is important for you to realize that you are a tiny minority and quite unusual. Being a squeaky wheel for such a position does not make it a correct position for the majority.
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  #242  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 2:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
If that is in fact true, it is important for you to realize that you are a tiny minority and quite unusual. Being a squeaky wheel for such a position does not make it a correct position for the majority.
A poll from 2017
https://halifax.citynews.ca/polls/would-...x-had-better-cycling-infrastructure-6548

Out of 99 people, a full third said they would. A third is not a tiny minority, even if the sample is as big as it is.

And article this year about Halifax in the national grand scheme of things.
https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada...iddle-of-the-pack-for-cycling-100691803/

It discusses the development of the regional plan to connect all the bicycle infrastructure, so it isn't a just hodge podge of lanes and painted lines.

Another article from 2017 showing of 766 34% rode a bicycle.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot...ling-safety-simon-fraser-study-1.4312179

And since you only have a 2 min attention span, I'll give you the cliffs notes. More than a tiny majority want better infrastructure for bicycle use in this city.
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  #243  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthPawLaw View Post
A poll from 2017
https://halifax.citynews.ca/polls/would-...x-had-better-cycling-infrastructure-6548

Out of 99 people, a full third said they would. A third is not a tiny minority, even if the sample is as big as it is.

And article this year about Halifax in the national grand scheme of things.
https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada...iddle-of-the-pack-for-cycling-100691803/

It discusses the development of the regional plan to connect all the bicycle infrastructure, so it isn't a just hodge podge of lanes and painted lines.

Another article from 2017 showing of 766 34% rode a bicycle.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot...ling-safety-simon-fraser-study-1.4312179

And since you only have a 2 min attention span, I'll give you the cliffs notes. More than a tiny majority want better infrastructure for bicycle use in this city.

Data and facts don't matter much to right wingers my friend, it gets in the way of the rhetoric so they try to stay away from those pesky "truths".
You need to use trigger words and tons of superlatives but make sure you don't substantiate anything because it makes it hard to flip flop to the other side of the argument when its convenient.
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  #244  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
If that is in fact true, it is important for you to realize that you are a tiny minority and quite unusual. Being a squeaky wheel for such a position does not make it a correct position for the majority.
You're so woefully, painfully wrong if you think residents of urban cores don't walk, bike, or take public transit. Not everyone is exactly like you.

I guess I need to emphasize that i'm referring to people who live in an urban core like Spring Garden and not out in the boonies of Tantallon.
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  #245  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 5:00 PM
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The "truth" is that only about 1/3rd of people who responded to those polls were enthusiastic (or purported enthusiastic) bicyclists. This means the large majority of respondents were not.

I'm sure many of that 1/3rd minority would lose their enthusiasm for bicycling during a mid January ice storm too.
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  #246  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 5:08 PM
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Hmmmm? I'm not sure polling the CityNews audience should change anyone's mind about paying for bike infrastructure when putting tax money towards higher order transit is so desperately needed. As an aside, 41% of Canadians make new years resolutions but only about 16% keep them. These results from an IPSOS poll. BTW, I'm totally for bike infrastrure.
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  #247  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
You're so woefully, painfully wrong if you think residents of urban cores don't walk, bike, or take public transit. Not everyone is exactly like you.
I've lived in Halifax before. I was a Haligonian for nearly 10 years. In fact for the entire time I lived in Halifax, I lived either in central Halifax or the South End.

The entire time I lived there, I walked almost everywhere in the downtown I wanted to go. I virtually never drove into downtown, and this was because parking in the downtown was a pain in the ass, even in the 1980s. I bicycled in Halifax too for a while (until my bicycle got stolen). I am not unsympathetic to the bicycle lobby.

Despite this, bicycling is not the solution for all of the people all of the time. If you are elderly, infirmed, or have a disability it is impractical. If the weather is bad (which it frequently is in Halifax), then it is impractical. If you work at odd hours (which many people, especially medical professionals do), then it is impractical.

Public transit should be maximized, yes, but unless it is reliable and a 24/7 frequent service, then it also can be impractical.

Despite how much some urbanists absolutely loath private motor vehicle ownership and use, it must remain an option for personal transportation. I am in favour of improving bicycle routes throughout the downtown area, but not at the expense of vehicular access. I find the glee of some urbanists towards banning the car frankly quite disturbing.
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  #248  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
I guess I need to emphasize that i'm referring to people who live in an urban core like Spring Garden and not out in the boonies of Tantallon.
As widely publicized, Halifax had the fastest-growing inner city population of a major Canadian city during the past census period. A lot of the growth in the whole metro area is concentrated in the downtown area and I think this will continue (2021 was mid-way through the building boom, not after it, and there are still tons of underused sites). The peninsula went up by something in the 8,000-10,000 ballpark if I recall correctly.

If anything I think a lot of people underestimate how "urban" (vs. suburban) the population in the city is. This is pretty clear if you compare it even to a bunch of much larger Canadian metros, and is obvious on the ground too. There's nothing really surprising about this since it's one of Canada's oldest cities and was one of the biggest many decades ago before cars were common.
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  #249  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I've lived in Halifax before. I was a Haligonian for nearly 10 years. In fact for the entire time I lived in Halifax, I lived either in central Halifax or the South End.

The entire time I lived there, I walked almost everywhere in the downtown I wanted to go. I virtually never drove into downtown, and this was because parking in the downtown was a pain in the ass, even in the 1980s. I bicycled in Halifax too for a while (until my bicycle got stolen). I am not unsympathetic to the bicycle lobby.

Despite this, bicycling is not the solution for all of the people all of the time. If you are elderly, infirmed, or have a disability it is impractical. If the weather is bad (which it frequently is in Halifax), then it is impractical. If you work at odd hours (which many people, especially medical professionals do), then it is impractical.

Public transit should be maximized, yes, but unless it is reliable and a 24/7 frequent service, then it also can be impractical.

Despite how much some urbanists absolutely loath private motor vehicle ownership and use, it must remain an option for personal transportation. I am in favour of improving bicycle routes throughout the downtown area, but not at the expense of vehicular access. I find the glee of some urbanists towards banning the car frankly quite disturbing.
I agree with all of that but I should clarify on the last point. Urban enthusiasts don't loathe cars or car ownership. We're just exasperated by how many cities and their infrastructure are designed primarily to accommodate them while subjugating the alternatives. It isn't that bikes and transit are expected to be the solution for everyone, it's that it's difficult for them to be the solution for a great many people because they don't receive enough support due to so much space and funding being allocated to accommodating private vehicles. In the same way that you acknowledge transit can't be a solution without having reliable 24/7 service, active transportation isn't practical for many unless there's investment to make it safe and enjoyable. The loathing of the situation can be mis-interpreted without understanding that context.

And part of that exasperation comes from statements like "but not at the expense of vehicular access." If there is a limited amount of space available in a particular location, sometimes it isn't practical to dedicate space to every mode. But if there's ever a hard choice to be made, there are always some people arguing that transit or active transportation should always be what's scarified. In other words, automobile dominance. And some of us don't accept that. For years there were many places where motor vehicles were given sole access either by law (like MacKay Bridge) or by inhospitable design. There's nothing unreasonable about the odd place existing where the opposite is true. That isn't loathing, it's just pragmatism.
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  #250  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 6:42 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I know you just want to get along with everyone and we do agree on most things, but there's a couple of things I have to - respectfully - push back on. Like the statement that intelligent people can "see through" the term automobile dominance. Perhaps I'm just not intelligent because I stand by the use of that term. There are just too many examples showing how an attempt to accommodate automobiles has dominated urban design. I agree with you that the phrasing tends to elicit an emotional response, but it does so only by pointing out something important that people are often missing. However, it avoids being inherently confrontational by focusing solely on a technology rather than on the people using it. Such videos aren't dividing people into groups of motorists vs cyclists and pedestrians, but rather speaking to everyone and saying that as a society, doing more of x will have a better outcome than doing more of Y (in this case, using more public/active transportation and less car driving). Simply identifying a technological or procedural problem and proposing a solution isn't adversarial. What makes it adversarial is when some people attach their personal identify to a particular technology causing them to refuse to acknowledge any downsides to it.

I do agree however that it's best to avoid choosing emotion over logic. But questions like "why do we have to take sides" is doing just that. It's allowing an emotional aversion to conflict and the feel-good desire for a kumbaya circle to shy away from the logical solutions we need. Rationally evaluating a situation and concluding that action X is the best solution to problem Y isn't tribalism. Dogmatically refusing to consider the rational case for solution X is. Often when there are major problems, they require major changes to solve them. And major changes are always disruptive and upsetting for certain people. But it's rational to accept that and do our best to manage and minimize conflict since an irrational aversion to it will force us to cede important progress to the heckler's veto.

In other words, terms like "auto dominance" are rhetorically provocative phrases used in service of a substantive argument, while "kumbaya" arguments that suggest people are wrong or irrational is are purely emotional appeals that aren't backed up by substance.




Your response suggests a fundamental misinterpretation of my argument. I'm not distinguishing between streets and roads in terms of their nomenclature or terminology (as the terms are often used interchangeably) but rather in terms of the fundamental ontologies of two different types of thing. The difference between a place on one hand and something you use to get to/from places on the other. A good place has an entirely different function that's concerned with being comfortable, interesting, and attractive whereas a conveyance to get to or from places needs to have little more than efficiency.

Perhaps that's where the whole debate originates. That as a society we've lost the collective ability to differentiate between the two. We so greatly eroded the quality of our places to allow for quicker access, egress, and pass-through that we've forgotten about the time actually spent there. Even people who regularly use cars don't want to spend time in places dominated by traffic. There are countless streets in auto-centeric areas that have traffic calming measures intended to keep vehicles on main corridors and away from where people live. It's easy to forget that even the design of places with little traffic like culs-de-sac were a response to car domination. The people at the forefront of automobile adoption designed their local streets with the purpose of traffic calming.

I also must point out that in an urban setting, automobiles are not the most time efficient mode for cities. Traffic congestion eventually prevents them from moving freely in even the cities that spend the most money on road infrastructure. Yes, if cities intentionally design themselves in a way that gives cars greatest priority and prevents other modes from effectively competing they may be fastest in that context but that's because of the environment rather than the technology. And we still must not forget that worldwide, when we consider the average time people have to spend working to buy and power a car that their overall average travel speed is lower than walking. Not too surprising considering that even in the HRM, when we factor in the work time required to own a car it drops the average speed by about 1/2. And that's not even counting the enormous cost of infrastructure. While it's fine to recognise that they have their advantages (such as comfort) it's essential not to falsely attribute advantages they lack.



To be clear, the point I was making with that bridge had nothing to do with that bridge specifically as pretty much all medieval bridges were like that. I was simply refuting the statement, "...historically roads have always been built to move people and goods by the most efficient means available." While that was true of roads between places (to my earlier point), roads or street inside of places like towns and cities were not historically used primarily as efficient transportation through them. They were, with fairly few exceptions, places where people spent time even though it greatly compromised the efficiency of through traffic.
I don't have the time to dive into this with you. Let's just say that we can agree to disagree on some points and leave it at that.

I have to push back on your perception that requesting a balanced conversation with zero dogmatism from both sides is "kumbaya" (which appears to be an attempt to discredit my opinions), but you will see it as you see it.

And frankly, I don't care if I get along with anybody here. I just want reasonable and balanced conversation, without the bullshit. I see that this may be an unrealistic expectation.
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  #251  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 9:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthPawLaw View Post
A poll from 2017
https://halifax.citynews.ca/polls/would-...x-had-better-cycling-infrastructure-6548

Out of 99 people, a full third said they would. A third is not a tiny minority, even if the sample is as big as it is.
Oh, please. A poll like that is worthless. I have one that provided different results:

"Would you use a bicycle as your primary mode of transportation if Halifax had better cycling infrastructure?

Yes: 10%
No: 10%
I like cake: 80%

Quote:
And article this year about Halifax in the national grand scheme of things.
https://www.saltwire.com/atlantic-canada...iddle-of-the-pack-for-cycling-100691803/

It discusses the development of the regional plan to connect all the bicycle infrastructure, so it isn't a just hodge podge of lanes and painted lines.
We have been building these things and spending millions on them for years with no appreciable change in the number of cyclists, suggesting that perhaps there are very hard limits on the number of hardcore cycling people willing to use that mode.

Quote:
Another article from 2017 showing of 766 34% rode a bicycle.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot...ling-safety-simon-fraser-study-1.4312179
There are likely thousands of bicycles hanging on garage walls or in basements, unused except for sunny weekend days in the summer. Meaningless as the basis for making decisions on issues like this unless someone is looking for any reason to advance an agenda.

Quote:
And since you only have a 2 min attention span, I'll give you the cliffs notes. More than a tiny majority want better infrastructure for bicycle use in this city.
And thanks for the slur. I knew you had it in you.
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  #252  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 9:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
I do agree however that it's best to avoid choosing emotion over logic. But questions like "why do we have to take sides" is doing just that. It's allowing an emotional aversion to conflict and the feel-good desire for a kumbaya circle to shy away from the logical solutions we need. Rationally evaluating a situation and concluding that action X is the best solution to problem Y isn't tribalism. Dogmatically refusing to consider the rational case for solution X is.

In other words, terms like "auto dominance" are rhetorically provocative phrases used in service of a substantive argument, while "kumbaya" arguments that suggest people are wrong or irrational is are purely emotional appeals that aren't backed up by substance.
You have just described the HRM case for bike lanes very well. There is no actual demand for it from any significant number of taxpayers, because there is no logical case for anyone to suggest that cycling can make a hill of beans worth of difference to our transportation issues. It is wholly driven by current-day planning dogma to the exclusion of any more logical, more practical, or more acceptable alternatives. Add to that the tendency of cycling zealots to characterize anyone who does not agree with their bizarre position as a lower form of life and it should be no surprise that such provocation results in conflict. Thankfully there are finally some indications that the taxpayers and voters of HRM have had it with the direction HRM Council has taken and are ready to remove some bums from the Council seats they occupy.with
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  #253  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2022, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
The "truth" is that only about 1/3rd of people who responded to those polls were enthusiastic (or purported enthusiastic) bicyclists. This means the large majority of respondents were not.

I'm sure many of that 1/3rd minority would lose their enthusiasm for bicycling during a mid January ice storm too.
The line I was pointing out was the size of the minority, that it wasn't tiny at all. A majority I would expect in a flatter city.

That's a pretty loose attempt to discredit, as since they were asking if they would use a bicycle if the infrastructure was better. I feel the people asked were not bicyclists, that would be redundant asking someone on a bicycle that poll.

The rate of attrition is also relative to the usability of the infrastructure though wouldn't it? Well developed lanes that can be properly plowed and salted, would see use. If you are merely using a weather event that is usually forecast? Yeah. I imagine I wouldn't see anyone on a bicycle in an ice storm either.


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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Oh, please. A poll like that is worthless. I have one that provided different results:

"Would you use a bicycle as your primary mode of transportation if Halifax had better cycling infrastructure?

Yes: 10%
No: 10%
I like cake: 80%
So you don't like that you were called out, and given data, showing there is a want for more and better. More than you expected I suspect, and you can't provide any contrary data of your own. So frailly attack the validity of data presented, fair enough.


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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
We have been building these things and spending millions on them for years with no appreciable change in the number of cyclists, suggesting that perhaps there are very hard limits on the number of hardcore cycling people willing to use that mode.



There are likely thousands of bicycles hanging on garage walls or in basements, unused except for sunny weekend days in the summer. Meaningless as the basis for making decisions on issues like this unless someone is looking for any reason to advance an agenda.

Saying people have the means but are not using, just adds weight to the need for more a robust, active infrastructure plan. People want to but on what's there now?

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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
And thanks for the slur. I knew you had it in you.
Slur? That would mean I made reference to your character. I made reference to your message that you only made it two minutes in to the video. So to save you the time, because as you stated, I condensed it to show that your statement of only a tiny minority want better infrastructure was only opinion. Your defensiveness is purely self-driven.
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  #254  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2022, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SouthPawLaw View Post
The line I was pointing out was the size of the minority, that it wasn't tiny at all. A majority I would expect in a flatter city.

That's a pretty loose attempt to discredit, as since they were asking if they would use a bicycle if the infrastructure was better. I feel the people asked were not bicyclists, that would be redundant asking someone on a bicycle that poll.

So you don't like that you were called out, and given data, showing there is a want for more and better. More than you expected I suspect, and you can't provide any contrary data of your own. So frailly attack the validity of data presented, fair enough.

Pay attention please: IT WAS A CITYNEWS POLL. Not a Narrative or an Ipsos poll, where they select a statistically valid random sample to represent a snapshot of a population. No, this is the kind of poll whose sample self-selects, by visiting a website and selecting a choice. The kind of poll that activist zealot groups like the HCC love to respond to by rallying their members to vote the way they want the results to turn out in order to advance their agenda, just like how they stuff the ballot box in Mason’s participatory budgeting charade in order to suck up more HRM dollars for their pet ideas. The vast majority of citizens wouldn’t even be aware of it. It is in no way “data”. The fact that you apparently think it is, speaks volumes.
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  #255  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2022, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Fast ferries is just an example of HRM fiddling while Rome burns. HRM needs to be planning for regional rail now. Halifax also needs to be planning for LRT on the peninsula now.
You have hit the nail on the head - there's an urgency to the situation, and there's no question that the HRM will need to incorporate some form of rail transit as part of its regional plan moving forward. Improved ferry services should be too though; I believe the harbour is underused and could be integrated better with existing and future transit. The population will only continue to grow.

On the topic of bike infrastructure, the Integrated Mobility Plan claims that 50% of Halifax residents would like to travel by bicycle more than they do now. I know it doesn't mean half of Haligonians would become diehard bikers overnight, but I think if the network was better connected and safer people would slowly get more and more comfortable.

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  #256  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2022, 1:35 AM
SouthPawLaw SouthPawLaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
Pay attention please: IT WAS A CITYNEWS POLL. Not a Narrative or an Ipsos poll, where they select a statistically valid random sample to represent a snapshot of a population. No, this is the kind of poll whose sample self-selects, by visiting a website and selecting a choice. The kind of poll that activist zealot groups like the HCC love to respond to by rallying their members to vote the way they want the results to turn out in order to advance their agenda, just like how they stuff the ballot box in Mason’s participatory budgeting charade in order to suck up more HRM dollars for their pet ideas. The vast majority of citizens wouldn’t even be aware of it. It is in no way “data”. The fact that you apparently think it is, speaks volumes.
There is a short article in the poll I should have pointed out, and it was flippant if me to just pointing out the poll. I'll wear that egg. The article points out Halifax was maintaining a 1.1 percent primary use of bicycles, as per the census. While the article references HCC, briefly, it also shows from 1996-2016, the primary percentage remained steady while population grew. That means there is a growing demand, and there is need to invest to encourage it. If it's holding percent wise it says the infrastructure there isn't enough, and people will want to use it.

Then the work by Simon Frasier U, a phone poll of just over 750 people, showed 34% rode a bike. That may not be primary ridership, but someone using a bike in the city, and a third of that number said they do not feel safe. So that tells you that what we have in place is not enough, and if a third of the people using the infrastructure do not feel safe, that means there is something wrong. That means we need to look at how it isn't safe, and correct that, and apply principle when applicable.

The Saltwire article also showing a much wider spectrum of cycling citizen desiring better infrastructure, so it isn't a select demographic wanting better.

I pointed out the limit to that poll, which is why I supplied some easy to refence pieces to add, that it isn't a tiny minority. You keep saying it's select few with an agenda, there is evidence to the contrary and a growing number.

I haven't been attention tbh, not until I saw your recent reply, and now understand. You have an axe to grind, be it Waye Mason, Sam Austin, or any other. My mistake.
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  #257  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2022, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthPawLaw View Post
There is a short article in the poll I should have pointed out, and it was flippant if me to just pointing out the poll. I'll wear that egg. The article points out Halifax was maintaining a 1.1 percent primary use of bicycles, as per the census. While the article references HCC, briefly, it also shows from 1996-2016, the primary percentage remained steady while population grew. That means there is a growing demand, and there is need to invest to encourage it. If it's holding percent wise it says the infrastructure there isn't enough, and people will want to use it.
When people rant and rave about the 1%ers, they should include cyclists. It is remarkable that such a tiny minority can get so much public money thrown their way for their own narrow special interests while other more broadly-based needs get ignored.

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Then the work by Simon Frasier U, a phone poll of just over 750 people, showed 34% rode a bike. That may not be primary ridership, but someone using a bike in the city, and a third of that number said they do not feel safe. So that tells you that what we have in place is not enough, and if a third of the people using the infrastructure do not feel safe, that means there is something wrong. That means we need to look at how it isn't safe, and correct that, and apply principle when applicable.
But that mindset ignores that 2/3rds feel perfectly safe. We could spend some modest money on teaching the minority who do not feel safe how to ride, how to follow the rules of the road, and how to behave in traffic, instead of spending big bucks on faux-bubble wrap bike lanes to make them feel better. Cycling is inherently dangerous, and there is little that can be done to change that.

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I haven't been attention tbh, not until I saw your recent reply, and now understand. You have an axe to grind, be it Waye Mason, Sam Austin, or any other. My mistake.
If I have an axe to grind re certain Council members it is because they are advocates for spending public money on things that only a tiny but loud minority wants at the expense of far more important issues.
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  #258  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
But that mindset ignores that 2/3rds feel perfectly safe. We could spend some modest money on teaching the minority who do not feel safe how to ride, how to follow the rules of the road, and how to behave in traffic, instead of spending big bucks on faux-bubble wrap bike lanes to make them feel better. Cycling is inherently dangerous, and there is little that can be done to change that.
Simple logic dictates that if 1/3 of cyclists do not feel safe, then some segment of the population is not cycling for that same reason.

Cycling itself is also not inherently dangerous. What's dangerous is cycling using infrastructure designed for motor vehicles, filled with many motorists who only see cyclists as a nuisance and don't recognize their rights on the road.
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  #259  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Indeed.

And this is why HRM and the province have to get serious about regional transit right now.

It will take a couple of decades to get up to speed on regional transit, by which time HRM might have a population of 700,000 people. The city is congested now - just imagine an HRM with 200,000 more people than right now, all with the existing grid network and highway infrastructure.

Fast ferries is just an example of HRM fiddling while Rome burns. HRM needs to be planning for regional rail now. Halifax also needs to be planning for LRT on the peninsula now.

To wait any longer will be pure folly.

And I say this as an enthusiastic supporter of private motor vehicle ownership..........
I don't think your caveat at the end is necessary at all. It shouldn't be controversial to support a diversity in transportation options.

I would say the majority of pragmatic urbanists support the option of private automobile ownership. What they don't support is the prioritization of cars over every other form of mobility, every time, everywhere - certainly not if that compromises any aspect of driving your own car. I think the pushback from people who simply accept car dependency without a second though exasperates those of us who simply want alternative ways of getting around.

Personally, I'm a huge car enthusiast. It's important to me what kind of car I drive, and it always has been. I can't foresee a world in which I don't own one or more cars. But I get zero pleasure out of commuting, or driving to a big box store in the suburbs. I walk to work, I walk to visit friends, I walk to local bars and restaurants, to the market, to the grocery store, etc. Doing so poses a very real danger to my health and safety that mostly doesn't exist for drivers traveling to those same destinations. I have to be more careful and more diligent, because we default to prioritizing motor vehicles. And I live in a downtown neighbourhood!

And yet, many people simply refuse to consider compromises that may marginally slow drivers down to better accommodate pedestrians, bicyclists, and transit users.
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  #260  
Old Posted Mar 1, 2022, 5:46 PM
OliverD OliverD is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
If that is in fact true, it is important for you to realize that you are a tiny minority and quite unusual. Being a squeaky wheel for such a position does not make it a correct position for the majority.
The correct position is that people should have that option if they choose to.
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