Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Djeffery]

I think the way the place is built precludes being able to make any type of changes to how it looks on the outside. There isn't a seating bowl sitting there with a roof sitting on top like Toronto or Vancouver, the roof "ribs" (it really does look like a rib cage in the construction photo below) are integral with the rest of the structure. I don't think you can lop off the top, square it off and put a new seating bowl under.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/under-co...al-olympic-stadium-tower-s-182977546.jpg

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Yeah. BC benefited from not being overly attached to the building outline. If Montreal wants to retain the look and feel from an onlooker's perspective, while adding features, it introduces constraints. Plus the building is getting old enough rolling in renewal of the concrete is likely.



A full renewal without retaining the outside profile of Olympic Stadium would be great. Retrofit a truly retractable roof on. Modify the seating to be more adaptable between soccer and baseball.



Sure it might cost as much as a baseball specific outdoor stadium, but if you want to retain the stadium and have it used more than today, I think it is the best option.


Something like this. Yellow, roof closed. Purple, room open. red, giant beams that are more like bridges to avoid needing columns in the stadium.

[thurmas]

Why not just make the big o open air again like it was in the 70s and 80s?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by thurmas

Why not just make the big o open air again like it was in the 70s and 80s?

I was wondering the same thing myself. How many events could really be taking place there during the winter months to justify the cost of a roof? It's really a 3 month chunk from December-February where it's going to be legitimately too cold to stage events without a roof, and that's probably not giving up much since there are no soccer/football league games during that stretch, and you don't usually see big stadium concert tours in the winter either. So ripping off the roof still leaves 9 months for events, although March and November would be admittedly cold.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I think the way the place is built precludes being able to make any type of changes to how it looks on the outside. There isn't a seating bowl sitting there with a roof sitting on top like Toronto or Vancouver, the roof "ribs" (it really does look like a rib cage in the construction photo below) are integral with the rest of the structure. I don't think you can lop off the top, square it off and put a new seating bowl under.

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/under-co...al-olympic-stadium-tower-s-182977546.jpg

It would go over the existing roof- a second structure. Like the Chernobyl shelter or Seattle’s roof. More difficult due to the long span, but doable. It wouldn’t sit/transfer a load to the existing concrete roof, and would enable removal of the current roof. Would only expose the stadium to weather for a month or two during the changeover.

It would look very different from the outside - that is the major stumbling block imo.

[thurmas]

Originally Posted by esquire

I was wondering the same thing myself. How many events could really be taking place there during the winter months to justify the cost of a roof? It's really a 3 month chunk from December-February where it's going to be legitimately too cold to stage events without a roof, and that's probably not giving up much since there are no soccer/football league games during that stretch, and you don't usually see big stadium concert tours in the winter either. So ripping off the roof still leaves 9 months for events, although March and November would be admittedly cold.

Would make more sense as the interior of the stadium could use a makeover to be more suitable for big soccer and cfl events and being open air would make it feel a bit less cold and sterile

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by esquire

I was wondering the same thing myself. How many events could really be taking place there during the winter months to justify the cost of a roof? It's really a 3 month chunk from December-February where it's going to be legitimately too cold to stage events without a roof, and that's probably not giving up much since there are no soccer/football league games during that stretch, and you don't usually see big stadium concert tours in the winter either. So ripping off the roof still leaves 9 months for events, although March and November would be admittedly cold.

I thought part of it was that all the internals were not designed to be exposed. Plumbing isn't insulated because it intended to be in a heated building, probably no drainage in the stands, that type of thing.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by jonny24

I thought part of it was that all the internals were not designed to be exposed. Plumbing isn't insulated because it intended to be in a heated building, probably no drainage in the stands, that type of thing.

That was my understanding as well. Not only would removing the roof cost money but renovating the rest of the building to be open-air would also cost money.

[esquire]

But it was open air for a decade at the start?! How did they manage then?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by esquire

But it was open air for a decade at the start?! How did they manage then?

I don't think they did. Given Montreal's climate I can't imagine an open-air Olympic Stadium being useful between November-March, and given that many events on its schedule require some form of indoor setting I don't think it makes logistical or financial sense to make it a permanent outdoor facility. I believe the 2017 feasibility study for the stadium dictated that a roof of some manner, whether permanent or retractable, was required or highly recommended.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I don't think they did. Given Montreal's climate I can't imagine an open-air Olympic Stadium being useful between November-March, and given that many events on its schedule require some form of indoor setting I don't think it makes logistical or financial sense to make it a permanent outdoor facility. I believe the 2017 feasibility study for the stadium dictated that a roof of some manner, whether permanent or retractable, was required or highly recommended.

Why not, though? Converting from open air to indoor was far greater of an undertaking than vice-versa... turning it into an open air facility would be far less expensive than a new roof. What events would be likely to be held there from December-March anyway? November is maybe the only month where Montreal would lose significant functionality as the Grey Cup/MLS Cup would have to be held outside if Montreal hosts either, but that's common in any event.

I wouldn't put too much stock in RIO's conclusions personally. Self preservation dictates their actions, not necessarily the community's best interests.

[trueviking]

They should use ETFE for the Olympic Stadium roof.....light weight....transparent....somewhat affordable.

[watchedmofu]

Mosaic Stadium in Regina needs this. Damn that looks nice.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I don't think they did. Given Montreal's climate I can't imagine an open-air Olympic Stadium being useful between November-March, and given that many events on its schedule require some form of indoor setting I don't think it makes logistical or financial sense to make it a permanent outdoor facility. I believe the 2017 feasibility study for the stadium dictated that a roof of some manner, whether permanent or retractable, was required or highly recommended.

But esquire's question was what did they do from 1976 to 1987 when the roof wasn't complete and the stadium was open to the elements all winter long? We did a high school tour there in I think 1986 and we got to Montreal in a snow storm. We arrived at the stadium to snow drifts in the stands. I'm assuming they just shut off the water and winterized things like any other outdoor stadium does in the winter. Are there major trade shows and things going on in the winter months now that would otherwise have to find a new home?

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

It would go over the existing roof- a second structure. Like the Chernobyl shelter or Seattle’s roof. More difficult due to the long span, but doable. It wouldn’t sit/transfer a load to the existing concrete roof, and would enable removal of the current roof. Would only expose the stadium to weather for a month or two during the changeover.

It would look very different from the outside - that is the major stumbling block imo.

I think basically building a big box over the place would not only be hideously ugly, but probably cost way more than the new roof would. Plus would the tower be in way?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I think basically building a big box over the place would not only be hideously ugly, but probably cost way more than the new roof would. Plus would the tower be in way?

If you replace the roof for $250 million plus for no new utility...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

But esquire's question was what did they do from 1976 to 1987 when the roof wasn't complete and the stadium was open to the elements all winter long? We did a high school tour there in I think 1986 and we got to Montreal in a snow storm. We arrived at the stadium to snow drifts in the stands. I'm assuming they just shut off the water and winterized things like any other outdoor stadium does in the winter.

I did some digging for a while but didn't find much to really support what happened to the stadium in the winter months prior to the roof being completed. Presumably things were winterized.

That said, from the reading i've done, an open-air facility like Olympic doesn't seem feasible based on the indoor events they want to host.

Almost 98 percent of the targeted events (sporting events, concerts, shows, shoots, fairs, exhibitions, etc.) in Olympic Park’s post-roof business plan are not open-air events, or even occasionally. The priority is to boast a functional roof that can withstand the Montreal climate well in order to leverage the use of the Olympic Stadium the whole year through.

https://www.coliseum-online.com/removable-roof-not-apt-for-olympic-stadium/

Even a partially-removable roof seems unlikely.

In addition, supported by experts in the field, a study was carried out on the feasibility of a partially removable roof for the stadium and a conclusion was arrived at that although such a roof is plausible, it is an exercise which has not been carried out elsewhere in the world and will therefore depend on unproven techniques. This would add technical risks relating to reliability, tightness and durability.

https://www.coliseum-online.com/removable-roof-not-apt-for-olympic-stadium/

I'm not even certain how the stadium's structure would react if it became open air again. Reading about the design, construction, and further construction of the facility is like reading a list of worst case scenarios for a project. I can only imagine what things would be like today if we simply got Parc des Princes 2.0 in Montreal instead of Olympic.

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

If you replace the roof for $250 million plus for no new utility...

Just for the roof. Nevermind other needed upgrades and continuing maintenance.

[thurmas]

You would think the province by now would come up with a long term plan for the stadium being 46 years old now and mostly unused for the past 18.

[Acajack]

The stadium hosts quite a few trade shows and fairs, raves, etc. The very occasional music show.

And stuff like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCN89ddOjpo

(Of course, you don't necessarily need an Olympic-sized stadium for that.)

The stadium is hosting a Santos Laguna-CF Montréal match tonight, and will be hosting the MLS home opener soon as well.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The stadium is hosting a Santos Laguna-CF Montréal match tonight, and will be hosting the MLS home opener soon as well.

The Champions League match was supposed to be last night but had to be postponed to tonight due to weather. The weather forecast had called for freezing rain.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Acajack

The stadium hosts quite a few trade shows and fairs, raves, etc. The very occasional music show.

And stuff like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCN89ddOjpo

(Of course, you don't necessarily need an Olympic-sized stadium for that.)

The stadium is hosting a Santos Laguna-CF Montréal match tonight, and will be hosting the MLS home opener soon as well.

From the sounds of it, most events at Olympic Stadium are either in-season such that they could take place in an open air environment (e.g. a soccer match in July) or don't actually need the stadium and could actually happen in any number of venues with large floorspaces (party/rave events, boat/car shows, etc.).

Without a roof the only things that really being compromised are

a) the ability to hold concerts in the colder half of the year (let's say mid-October to mid-April, a time of year when there typically aren't stadium concert tours)

b) the ability to hold very early season soccer matches in February/March.

Is it worth spending hundreds of millions for Olympic Stadium to host a RV show in January and a soccer match in March? Seems highly unlikely to me.