Canadian City Proposals - Page 886

WhipperSnapper · #**17701** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 8:50 PM**

This is about 20 storeys. I wouldn't want to see much more than 10 with matching materials. The classical design would need heavy modifications for new floors to blend seamlessly. (or maybe not)

TorontoDrew · #**17702** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 9:01 PM**

I always find it's better not to try and match the materials of an older structure with a new addition. Glass is a perfect material to use here. Unfortunately Vancouver has more glass then any other city in North America I can think of and the Hudson Bay Building is one of Vancouver's few and one of it's most beautiful heritage structures. It's also a bit sad that if it goes ahead there will be a reduction of retail space in the building.

I'm also not a fan of the Montreal Hudson Bay Proposal, and I wonder how long until The Bay in Toronto proposes an 90 storey Condo to go on top of it.

I haven't been in that Bay since probably 2 years ago just before Covid. The interior felt more like a run down Sears, then one of the Bay's Flagship locations.

Does anybody have an example where a new addition has been made to look like it's Historical base? In a highrise that is. I can't find any examples.

O-tacular · #**17703** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 9:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

What is that? Examples?

A term I came up with to describe developments that plop a glass tower on top of a historic building in such a way that renders it into an elephant cankle. The floorplate size that matches the heritage block combined with a clear glass segment before a wider floorplate creates the ugly image. See below.

Quote:

How's this for ugly:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Sorry for swearing but F@ck No! It seems I was wrong about the Irish Embassy site. This better get rejected and the OMB better stay out of it. But lets face it, this will probably happen. At the very least I hope this is not the final design.

source: urbantoronto.ca

Address 49 - 51 Yonge St, Toronto, Ontario, M5E 1J1
Category Condo, Office
Status Pre-Construction
Number of Buildings 1
Height 710 ft / 216.36 m
Storeys 60
Number of Units 258

Developer SmartCentres REIT
Architect architects—Alliance
Heritage Architect GBCA Architects
Landscape Architect MEP Design Inc.
Engineering Gradient Wind Engineers & Scientists, Grounded Engineering Inc., EQ Building Performance Inc., COUNTERPOINT ENGINEERING
Legal Goodmans LLP
Site Services J.D. Barnes Limited, AS&G Archaeological Consulting
Transportation & Infrastructure HDR
Other Goldberg Group

A beautiful historic building reduced to a cankle for the horrid condo box above.

WhipperSnapper · #**17704** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 9:20 PM**

We matched materials and design seamlessly for decades so successfully that most people today (including myself) have no idea so many towers across Canada were built in several vertical phases. I agree that glass vertical additions are fine. There's too much of it. We also see, for example, beige stucco substituted for beige Tyndall limestone. That's matching the colour palette than matching materials.

This is the only project I can think of in Toronto where they went with a matching vernacular than a glass box and there has been countless vertical additions to simple brick buildings such as this.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6506826,...a5VeGY6vq2ZnNh_uJl4PQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6506923,...NzQ!2e0!5s20140701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

TorontoDrew · #**17705** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 9:48 PM**

2 More renders have been released with more detail as SmartCentres tries to push this thing through the city planning department. Figured today is the perfect day for this to be posted since we've been debating the merits of the HBC in Vancouver. This building is totally inappropriate being built on top of an existing 175 year old and a 147 year old structure.

posted on urbantoronto.ca today.

WhipperSnapper · #**17706** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 10:02 PM**

Those buildings will be demolished in order to build a 60 storey tower.

O-tacular · #**17707** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 10:21 PM**

Putrid. It looks like they slightly reduced the width of the glass cankle connector.

J.OT13 · #**17708** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 10:39 PM**

God dam, what is wrong with Toronto!? They love facadism that make heritage buildings (or well, walls) look insignificant.

TorontoDrew · #**17709** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 10:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

We matched materials and design seamlessly for decades so successfully that most people today (including myself) have no idea so many towers across Canada were built in several vertical phases.

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6506826,...a5VeGY6vq2ZnNh_uJl4PQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6506923,...NzQ!2e0!5s20140701T000000!7i13312!8i6656

We also had far more stone cutters and stone masons that could work using materials most trades people today have no knowledge of working with. So the cost to do it today over 4 or 5 decades ago makes it almost impossible to do.

Also I was asking for Highrise examples, these couyld still be done for not much of a high cost. Bricks are a very readily available material.

J.OT13 · #**17710** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 10:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

This is about 20 storeys. I wouldn't want to see much more than 10 with matching materials. The classical design would need heavy modifications for new floors to blend seamlessly. (or maybe not)

For sure. If the addition has a similar, or lower height as the original, it doesn't overtake the heritage structure as much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

I always find it's better not to try and match the materials of an older structure with a new addition. Glass is a perfect material to use here. Unfortunately Vancouver has more glass then any other city in North America I can think of and the Hudson Bay Building is one of Vancouver's few and one of it's most beautiful heritage structures. It's also a bit sad that if it goes ahead there will be a reduction of retail space in the building.

I'm also not a fan of the Montreal Hudson Bay Proposal, and I wonder how long until The Bay in Toronto proposes an 90 storey Condo to go on top of it.

I haven't been in that Bay since probably 2 years ago just before Covid. The interior felt more like a run down Sears, then one of the Bay's Flagship locations.

Does anybody have an example where a new addition has been made to look like it's Historical base? In a highrise that is. I can't find any examples.

I agree, glass additions to heritage buildings are better and more respectful IMO. Trying to replicate the old building confuses history and/or is poorly executed.

And for those who may have forgotten the HBC Montreal proposal:

https://retail-insider.com/retail-inside...ntreal-store-redevelopment-announcement/

Harley613 · #**17711** Posted **Feb 22, 2022, 11:21 PM**

Wow does the HBC proposal ever look a lot like the proposal for 126 York/151 George in Ottawa!

samne · #**17712** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 12:59 AM**

49-51 Yonge St.

Love the tower. Hate the facadectomy of the heritage building. They both deserve better.

A real podium for that tower somewhere else.

blacktrojan3921 · #**17713** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 2:06 AM**

Well it is either make it a facade for the podium; or just simply demolish the heritage building.

WhipperSnapper · #**17714** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 2:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

We also had far more stone cutters and stone masons that could work using materials most trades people today have no knowledge of working with. So the cost to do it today over 4 or 5 decades ago makes it almost impossible to do.

Also I was asking for Highrise examples, these couyld still be done for not much of a high cost. Bricks are a very readily available material.

The majority of towers we add floors to are simple brick structure that could be reproduced seemlessly. I just think people like glass are have been convinced glass is awesome. As for the Bay Building, you go simpler as with many stone faced high rises in that era. The stone wouldn't be cheap as volume is down due to all the glass facades we build and have built over the past 50 years. Although, we do love our stone countertops and backsplashes. I don't see experienced cutters and mason as an issue. Computer programs would likely replace them anyways.

MonkeyRonin · #**17715** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 3:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacktrojan3921

Well it is either make it a facade for the podium; or just simply demolish the heritage building.

Or C, not develop the property. Not every single property must be redeveloped. There are many that can't be for various reasons - heritage is as valid a reason as any.

Innsertnamehere · #**17716** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 3:45 AM**

Wonder if / when we’ll see a HBC Toronto redevelopment. HBC already sold the building to Cadillac Fairview though so I guess it would have to come from them and not HBC itself.

WhipperSnapper · #**17717** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 5:23 AM**

What an exciting proposition! They did such a great job reskinning the HBC Tower.

blacktrojan3921 · #**17718** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 6:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Or C, not develop the property. Not every single property must be redeveloped. There are many that can't be for various reasons - heritage is as valid a reason as any.

Well, if the property is a heritage property. But C isn't a viable option as they want to make money lmao.

TorontoDrew · #**17719** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 1:57 PM**

Wrong thread. Deleted

hipster duck · #**17720** Posted **Feb 23, 2022, 2:11 PM**

The Yonge and Wellington proposal is very unfortunate. I doubt this would happen, but my wish is that they would deconstruct the historic building and rebuild it on another corner site. I could think of a few neighbourhoods where a building that stately would instantly become a local landmark.

I don't know how much the developer paid for that site, but my guess is that anything less than a tall skyscraper will result in a big loss for them. Converting a four storey heritage building into bespoke offices or luxury residences is probably not in the cards.