PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Pushing 50% in some zip codes of the share of purchased homes bought by investors, check out the interactive maps. So yes I stand by my opinions and observations,
summersm343 and a few others.

Investors bought a record share of homes in 2021. See where.

Philadelphia, PA - 15 percent of homes purchased in this area last year were bought by investors — more than the typical metro. That’s higher than its 2015 rate of 11 percent.

Montgomery, Bucks, Chester counties, PA - 7 percent of homes purchased in this area last year were bought by investors — fewer than the typical metro. That’s higher than its 2015 rate of 4 percent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/housing-market-investors/

Sorry, I still don't get how investors buying properties in Philadelphia is a bad thing? How is an increase in investment into the city of Philadelphia a bad thing? I Just don't understand your line of thinking.

Plus, we're not seeing an overwhelming number of properties bought by investors like you would have people believe with the hyperbole you're spewing.... we're talking about 85% of the homes sold in the city sold to people who were buying these homes as their primary residences. That's pretty remarkable. Only 15% of all home sales in the city of Philadelphia were sold to investors for rental properties or to be rehabbed and flipped??? I would say that number could even be higher realistically.

Plus, Philadelphia's homeownership rate of 69.2% as of 2020 is much higher than almost every other major American City:
https://filterbuy.com/resources/us-cities-homeownership-rates/

Plus, your own link, Philadelphia had less investors buy properties in 2022 than: Atlanta, Charlotte, Cleveland, Detroit, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Miami, Nashville, Orlando, Phoenix, etc.
...and Philadelphia had the same percentage of investors buy properties as Cincinnati and Fort Lauderdale.

Philadelphia had more investors buy properties last year than Los Angeles, New York City, San Francisco and Washington DC, but these cities already have so many more investors to begin with, that one year really doesn't prove much.... if anything, it just shows that investors are looking away from the most expensive cities and metro areas, and starting to look at some of the lower cost cities and metro areas for investment properties.

So, all in all, I think this article doesn't nothing but to prove you incorrect.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Philadelphia had more investors buy properties last year than Los Angeles, New York City, San Francisco and Washington DC, but these cities already have so many more investors to begin with, that one year really doesn't prove much.... if anything, it just shows that investors are looking away from the most expensive cities and metro areas, and starting to look at some of the lower cost cities and metro areas for investment properties.

So, all in all, I think this article doesn't nothing but to prove you incorrect.

I read all time that investors from DC, NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. are eyeing Philadelphia more than ever due to attractive market conditions and more reasonable prices. And not just residential, but commercial, industrial, etc., I view that as a major positive.

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I read all time that investors from DC, NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. are eyeing Philadelphia more than ever due to attractive market conditions and more reasonable prices. And not just residential, but commercial, industrial, etc., I view that as a major positive.

Yes, warehouse investment and the tri-state area (del Valley) has been insane in the last couple years if we are to believe BizJournals. All of this is super positive for the metro area! Hopefully it will translate into more towers and bullish on better designs!

[iheartphilly]

^
maybe more residential tower, but office tower in general probably not with WFH or remote/teleworking. One bright spot is that we know is more lab/office space like those new projects we are seeing in University City will continue to be built over time as demand increases for these kinds of projects.

Some may recall, Liberty Property Trust exited Philly and the high rise scene and went into building warehouses a few years back. Good for them for seeing the trend and the pandemic certainly hasn't hurt their decision.

The overall development scene in Philly in the next few years will be very interesting in terms of residential builds based on all the permits recently pulled. Some will come to fruition while others will not.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Sorry, I still don't get how investors buying properties in Philadelphia is a bad thing? How is an increase in investment into the city of Philadelphia a bad thing? I Just don't understand your line of thinking.

Plus, we're not seeing an overwhelming number of properties bought by investors like you would have people believe with the hyperbole you're spewing.... we're talking about 85% of the homes sold in the city sold to people who were buying these homes as their primary residences. That's pretty remarkable. Only 15% of all home sales in the city of Philadelphia were sold to investors for rental properties or to be rehabbed and flipped??? I would say that number could even be higher realistically.

Plus, Philadelphia's homeownership rate of 69.2% as of 2020 is much higher than almost every other major American City:
https://filterbuy.com/resources/us-cities-homeownership-rates/

Plus, your own link, Philadelphia had less investors buy properties in 2022 than: Atlanta, Charlotte, Cleveland, Detroit, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Miami, Nashville, Orlando, Phoenix, etc.
...and Philadelphia had the same percentage of investors buy properties as Cincinnati and Fort Lauderdale.

Philadelphia had more investors buy properties last year than Los Angeles, New York City, San Francisco and Washington DC, but these cities already have so many more investors to begin with, that one year really doesn't prove much.... if anything, it just shows that investors are looking away from the most expensive cities and metro areas, and starting to look at some of the lower cost cities and metro areas for investment properties.

So, all in all, I think this article doesn't nothing but to prove you incorrect.

I am not saying that this is a bad thing and I never have been. My argument has been that this is A) not something we are used to seeing so there may be growing pains and B) rapidly shifting the landscape of Philly, particularly in desirable areas and more established hoods, and I have my doubts about how positive this will be long-term because what makes Philly, Philly? Culture aside the biggest pieces are that it's an affordable big city and people with roots but if this trend continues why would one choose to come/stay in Philly over all of the other comparable places? If some underlying themes are not addressed I do not feel as if this upward momentum will continue.

This can be the price of progress. What is the solution for stability? I have many but this thread will just get diverted and no need for that.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Porky

Our city has an open market for heroin and has the highest poverty rate of any American major city. The infrastructure is in disarray and we did not even have a city-wide trash service until around 3 years ago. I do not think Philadelphia is a world-class city, considering the wealth disparity in Philadelphia especially.

Originally Posted by Porky

Our city has an open market for heroin and has the highest poverty rate of any American major city. The infrastructure is in disarray and we did not even have a city-wide trash service until around 3 years ago. I do not think Philadelphia is a world-class city, considering the wealth disparity in Philadelphia especially.

Why are you only focusing on the negative? Yes, Philadelphia has issues that need to be fixed - 100%. The poverty rate, crime, trash, and schools are major issues that need to be addressed... and so does the open air drug market in Kensington.

With that said, there are many, many qualities that I would say absolutely 100% make Philadelphia a world class city. It's sheer walkability which is really only matched by a handful of cities in the US and grows larger and larger with every year. It's incredible restaurant scene, it's historical sites, it's quality arts scene and cultural institutions, etc. etc.... it's the only World Heritage City in the US currently for a reason. It is absolutely a world class city and tourist destination.

Wealth disparity is prevalent all across the world. This is certainly not unique to Philadelphia. The infrastructure? That's a little unfair to pin that on Philadelphia. I would say in recent years, Philadelphia has done a pretty decent job repairing and replacing what infrastructure it can. A lot of this has to do with severe underfunding and disinvestment from the state of Pennsylvania, and the Federal Government.

Open air drug market? While Kensington drug market is absolutely an issue that needs to be addressed... why are we acting like this is the only one in the US, let alone the world?

Los Angeles probably has the largest open air drug market in the United States, and one of the largest in the world in Skid Row. Skid Row is right in Downtown Los Angeles. It's been conveniently called a "homeless district" by the media though, so the fact that it's actually a massive open air drug market gets overlooked. Is Los Angeles not world class?
https://nypost.com/2020/02/18/the-moral-crisis-of-skid-row-las-most-notorious-neighborhood/

NYC has had open air drug markets in the past, and there's a new one growing right in the Garment District in the middle of Manhattan. Is NYC not world class?
https://nypost.com/2021/09/27/open-air-heroin-markets-de-blasios-most-telling-gift-to-new-york/

San Francisco has open air drug markets in the Tenderloin. For those who don't know, the Tenderloin is a neighborhood right in Downtown San Francisco. Is San Francisco not world class?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...-drug-users-shooting-broad-daylight.html

Seattle also has an open air drug market right Downtown. Is Seattle not world class?
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/bre...rid-seattle-of-its-open-air-drug-market/

Look at a larger picture and looking at the world...

Sao Paulo has probably the largest open air drug market in the world. Isn't Sao Paulo world class?
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/27/inside-crackland-open-air-crack-market-sao-paulo

Paris has an open air drug market. Is Paris not world class?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/18/world/europe/paris-crack-cocaine-la-colline.html

As far as Poverty - yes, Philadelphia has the largest poverty rate amongst US Cities larger than 1 Million People at 24% poverty.... but is it really that much different than Houston's 20% poverty rate? What about Dallas's 19% poverty rate? What about NYC's, LA's or Chicago's 18% poverty rate each? Plus, there are many cities in the US with higher poverty rates - Memphis, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Fresno, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, Detroit, etc.

Mumbai's poverty rate is 20%
https://www.google.com/search?q=mumbai+p...SIAcYDkgEBNpgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

Mexico City's poverty rate is 44%
https://news.azpm.org/s/88596-poverty-in-mexico-rose-to-nearly-half-the-country-in-2020/

Sao Paulo's is 19%
https://www.google.com/search?q=sao+paul...i390l3.4022j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And there are many, many more cities in South America, Central America and Asia that have very high poverty rates. Many of which would be considered "World Class"

So, while overall, I agree that all these things need to be better in Philadelphia, I think saying it's not "World Class" because of these issues is incorrect when so many other cities are dealing with the same exact problems.

[summersm343]

Permits Issued For 47-Unit Building At 5127 Duffield Street In Frankford

Current site:




Site plan:


Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2022/02/permits-...in-frankford-northeast-philadelphia.html

[summersm343]

1120 Frankford Avenue Goes Before Civic Design Review In Fishtown

Current site:


Renderings:

A new mixed-use development called The Frankford, which is proposed at 1120 Frankford Avenue in Fishtown, is going before the Civic Design Review. Designed by BLT Architects, the new building will rise five stories tall. On the ground floor, there will be 7,166 square feet of commercial space. The building will yield 150 residential units, spanning 83,372 square feet of space. There will not be any car parking included with the project, but the building will offer space for 50 bicycles.

Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2022/02/1120-fra...ore-civic-design-review-in-fishtown.html

[summersm343]

1359 Frankford Avenue Goes Before Civic Design Review In Fishtown

Renderings:

A mixed-use development proposed at 1359 Frankford Avenue in Fishtown is going before the Civic Design Review. Designed by NORR, the building will rise four stories tall, with three commercial spaces on the ground floor/basement level along the Frankford Avenue side of the building. The upper floors will hold 61 apartments. There will not be any parking included with he development, though the project will include space for 21 bicycles.

Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2022/02/1359-fra...ore-civic-design-review-in-fishtown.html

[summersm343]

Renderings Revealed For 150 West Berks Street In Olde Kensington/Norris Square

Current site:



Renderings:

Renderings have been revealed for a large mixed-use building at 150 West Berks Street in Olde Kensington. Designed by Cecil Baker + Partners and developed by Urban Conversions, the structure will stand seven stories tall, with multiple commercial spaces on the ground floor along Berks Street. In total, the building will yield 147,938 square feet of space. The structure will feature 152 residential units, most of which will be located on the upper floors, with two units situated on the ground floor. A partially covered area on the ground level will feature 42 parking spaces.

Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2022/02/renderin...-olde-kensington-north-philadelphia.html

[summersm343]

Facade Nearly Complete At 2966-68 Richmond Street In Port Richmond

Current progress:



Rendering:

Philadelphia YIMBY’s recent site visit has revealed that exterior work nears completion at the four-story, ten-unit mixed-use building under construction at 2966-68 Richmond Street in Port Richmond, Kensington. The development rises on the north side of the block between Ann Street and East Indiana Avenue, across from the Interstate-95 aka the Delaware Expressway. Designed by KJO Architecture, the structure will hold 9,745 square feet of space, of which 2,000 square feet will be allocated for commercial (office) space. The remaining 7,745 will be residential, lending an average of just under 775 square feet per unit. The building will be fully sprinkled. Permits list A Frame Management LLC as the contractor and a construction cost of $1.6 million.

Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2022/02/2966-68-richmond-street-photos-added.html

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Why are you only focusing on the negative? Yes, Philadelphia has issues that need to be fixed - 100%. The poverty rate, crime, trash, and schools are major issues that need to be addressed... and so does the open air drug market in Kensington.

With that said, there are many, many qualities that I would say absolutely 100% make Philadelphia a world class city. It's sheer walkability which is really only matched by a handful of cities in the US and grows larger and larger with every year. It's incredible restaurant scene, it's historical sites, it's quality arts scene and cultural institutions, etc. etc.... it's the only World Heritage City in the US currently for a reason. It is absolutely a world class city and tourist destination.

Wealth disparity is prevalent all across the world. This is certainly not unique to Philadelphia. The infrastructure? That's a little unfair to pin that on Philadelphia. I would say in recent years, Philadelphia has done a pretty decent job repairing and replacing what infrastructure it can. A lot of this has to do with severe underfunding and disinvestment from the state of Pennsylvania, and the Federal Government.

Open air drug market? While Kensington drug market is absolutely an issue that needs to be addressed... why are we acting like this is the only one in the US, let alone the world?

Los Angeles probably has the largest open air drug market in the United States, and one of the largest in the world in Skid Row. Skid Row is right in Downtown Los Angeles. It's been conveniently called a "homeless district" by the media though, so the fact that it's actually a massive open air drug market gets overlooked. Is Los Angeles not world class?
https://nypost.com/2020/02/18/the-moral-crisis-of-skid-row-las-most-notorious-neighborhood/

NYC has had open air drug markets in the past, and there's a new one growing right in the Garment District in the middle of Manhattan. Is NYC not world class?
https://nypost.com/2021/09/27/open-air-heroin-markets-de-blasios-most-telling-gift-to-new-york/

San Francisco has open air drug markets in the Tenderloin. For those who don't know, the Tenderloin is a neighborhood right in Downtown San Francisco. Is San Francisco not world class?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...-drug-users-shooting-broad-daylight.html

Seattle also has an open air drug market right Downtown. Is Seattle not world class?
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/bre...rid-seattle-of-its-open-air-drug-market/

Look at a larger picture and looking at the world...

Sao Paulo has probably the largest open air drug market in the world. Isn't Sao Paulo world class?
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/nov/27/inside-crackland-open-air-crack-market-sao-paulo

Paris has an open air drug market. Is Paris not world class?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/18/world/europe/paris-crack-cocaine-la-colline.html

As far as Poverty - yes, Philadelphia has the largest poverty rate amongst US Cities larger than 1 Million People at 24% poverty.... but is it really that much different than Houston's 20% poverty rate? What about Dallas's 19% poverty rate? What about NYC's, LA's or Chicago's 18% poverty rate each? Plus, there are many cities in the US with higher poverty rates - Memphis, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Fresno, Atlanta, Miami, New Orleans, Detroit, etc.

Mumbai's poverty rate is 20%
https://www.google.com/search?q=mumbai+p...SIAcYDkgEBNpgBAKABAcABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

Mexico City's poverty rate is 44%
https://news.azpm.org/s/88596-poverty-in-mexico-rose-to-nearly-half-the-country-in-2020/

Sao Paulo's is 19%
https://www.google.com/search?q=sao+paul...i390l3.4022j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And there are many, many more cities in South America, Central America and Asia that have very high poverty rates. Many of which would be considered "World Class"

So, while overall, I agree that all these things need to be better in Philadelphia, I think saying it's not "World Class" because of these issues is incorrect when so many other cities are dealing with the same exact problems.

I agree with some of your points here but these shifting goalposts with the Philly vs other cities comparisons are really something. When it suits the argument Philly can be compared to LA and NYC, but when it doesn't it can't be I guess? Many love to fall back on the per capita stances in most cases and I agree, it's usually the best way to look at things. But using that same logic a large open air drug market in a little more spread out city of 4 million people is going to feel vastly different than a tight compact city with 1.6 million people. Both suck, both need to be addressed, but let's not lose perspective and the reality of the situation here.

Anyway, I really do love seeing all of this new development and it's pretty exciting. Even the 'burbs have low and mid-rise buildings that seem to pop up out of nowhere and it's neat to see. I do appreciate high-rises as we all do I am sure but this street level, day to day stuff is what I am most curious about.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Permits Issued For 47-Unit Building At 5127 Duffield Street In Frankford

Current site:




Site plan:


Read/view more here:
https://phillyyimby.com/2022/02/permits-...in-frankford-northeast-philadelphia.html

This is nuts.

Years ago, when I sat on the Northern Liberties zoning board, one of the members (a contractor who owns a lot of repurposed commercial property throughout the Riverwards) told me gentrification would skip K&A/Harrowgate (as much as this pains me because I believe in Harrowgate) and go to Frankford.

His theory. The El is too good of an asset to pass up and the building stock (esp in the historic part of Frankford) was unmatched in Philadelphia. Unique and specific to Frankford. Also, though crime is a underlying issue in Frankford its nothing like it is in Kensington.

Anyways. We'll see.

He started buying industrial buildings in Frankford 20+ years ago. Hopefully he's right.

[CleetMcDougle]

Frankford ave is absolutely rolling. Thanks for the updates Summers.

Add on to that:
the Skyler (https://phillyyimby.com/2022/01/excavati...t-1601-frankford-avenue-in-fishtown.html)

this building proposed right next to an apartment building not yet finished (https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/f...will-grow-on-the-1800-block-of-frankford

The building planned to wrap around the bank at Frankford and Girard (https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/f...round-kensington-national-bank-building)

This building going up across the street from the Skyler (https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/fishtown/another-upgrade-works-1500-block-frankford-avenue)

Along with the pair of buildings going up around the new roundabout (https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/e...-ave-corner-swapping-used-cars-mixed-use) and (https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/fishtown/fishtown-getting-flatiron-building-frankford-avenue)

[summersm343]

For those who say Philadelphia has an "affordability problem"

100 Largest US Cities by Typical Home Price, February 2022 (this is according to Zillow BTW)
San Francisco, CA $1,545,059
Fremont, CA $1,476,366
San Jose, CA $1,397,574
Vancouver, BC $1,162,632
Irvine, CA $1,159,143
Oakland, CA $961,248
Los Angeles, CA $934,305
Toronto, ON $927,957
San Diego, CA $918,467
Seattle, WA $915,340
Anaheim, CA $846,355
Honolulu, HI $824,605
Long Beach, CA $786,182
Scottsdale, AZ $784,305
Chula Vista, CA $777,383
Santa Ana, CA $763,925
Santa Clarita, CA $750,542
New York, NY $741,622
Boston, MA $710,654
Washington, DC $692,376
Austin, TX $636,839
Denver, CO $599,742
Riverside, CA $594,530
Jersey City, NJ $576,986
Portland, OR $564,334
Reno, NV $549,527
Gilbert, AZ $547,777
Boise, ID $523,760
Chandler, AZ $498,677
Aurora, CO $489,489
Plano, TX $487,587
Sacramento, CA $484,269
Henderson, NV $469,875
Miami, FL $469,562
Colorado Springs, CO $461,668
Stockton, CA $434,490
Montreal, QC $416,094
Raleigh, NC $412,599
Mesa, AZ $405,723
Nashville, TN $404,945
Las Vegas, NV $399,108
Phoenix, AZ $396,063
Spokane, WA $387,564
Newark, NJ $384,391
North Las Vegas, NV $380,286
Glendale, AZ $380,007
Durham, NC $370,805
Atlanta, GA $366,797
Tampa, FL $365,650
Charlotte, NC $358,605
Anchorage, AK $356,401
Virginia Beach, VA $355,526
Fresno, CA $354,622
Bakersfield, CA $353,987
Irving, TX $351,550
Madison, WI $349,786
Chesapeake, VA $348,322
Orlando, FL $338,272
Minneapolis, MN $324,985
St Petersburg, FL $315,765
Richmond, VA $310,042
Chicago, IL $306,098
Arlington, TX $300,723
Tucson, AZ $300,294
Dallas, TX $294,603
Fort Worth, TX $292,552
Albuquerque, NM $286,465
St Paul, MN $279,635
San Antonio, TX $276,049
Garland, TX $275,992
Jacksonville, FL $273,730
New Orleans, LA $271,080
Lexington, KY $260,968
Norfolk, VA $260,906
Omaha, NE $251,594
Lincoln, NE $250,845
Houston, TX $241,582
Philadelphia, PA $227,938
Columbus, OH $223,836
Louisville, KY $219,949
Greensboro, NC $218,809
Cincinnati, OH $217,891
Baton Rouge, LA $215,200
Kansas City, MO $214,263
Winston-Salem, NC $209,917
Indianapolis, IN $208,102
Corpus Christi, TX $204,144
Pittsburgh, PA $203,384
Baltimore, MD $196,478
Buffalo, NY $195,614
Fort Wayne, IN $190,825
Lubbock, TX $190,742
Laredo, TX $184,086
Oklahoma City, OK $183,125
El Paso, TX $182,377
Wichita, KS $170,666
Tulsa, OK $169,554
St Louis, MO $166,529
Memphis, TN $139,694
Toledo, OH $102,102
Cleveland, OH $99,107
Detroit, MI $64,368

[skyhigh07]

^^Thank you. I suppose it’s unaffordable if you unrealistically expect to live in a penthouse overlooking Rittenhouse Square or something lol. I’ve lived in quite a few cities - Philly is very reasonable. People want their cake...

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

This is nuts.

Years ago, when I sat on the Northern Liberties zoning board, one of the members (a contractor who owns a lot of repurposed commercial property throughout the Riverwards) told me gentrification would skip K&A/Harrowgate (as much as this pains me because I believe in Harrowgate) and go to Frankford.

His theory. The El is too good of an asset to pass up and the building stock (esp in the historic part of Frankford) was unmatched in Philadelphia. Unique and specific to Frankford. Also, though crime is a underlying issue in Frankford its nothing like it is in Kensington.

Anyways. We'll see.

He started buying industrial buildings in Frankford 20+ years ago. Hopefully he's right.

I think he's partially right. He's right in the sense that along the EL, gentrification will probably skip over Kensington and Harrowgate. Not really "skip over" though. There are early signs of gentrification in Kensington and Harrowgate, just like there are in Frankford.

HOWEVER, I think gentrification of Frankford and neighboring Wissinoming and Tacony will probably happen a lot faster than it will in Kensington and Harrowgate. Why? Frankford, Wissinoming - and to a lesser extent - Tacony, are blighted, disinvested in, and have higher than normal crime..... BUT, Kensington and Harrowgate are blighted, disinvested in, have MUCH higher than normal crime, AND have the huge open air drug market.

Plus, Frankford, Wissinoming and Tacony are Northeast Philly and can be marketed as that. Northeast Philly has a better reputation. Kensington and Harrowgate have awful reputations, and it will take a long, long time to sway public perception of these neighborhoods.

Also, he's only right in the sense that the "gentrification" will skip over those areas along the EL, but along I-95, Port Richmond and Bridesburg are pretty well-established neighborhoods that are seeing more investment in recent years. So, the line of development along I-95 coming out of Center City/Old City goes NoLibs/Fishtown/The Waterfront, to Olde Richmond, to Port Richmond, to Bridesburg, then into Frankford, Wissinoming and Tacony.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by skyhigh07

^^Thank you. I suppose it’s unaffordable if you unrealistically expect to live in a penthouse overlooking Rittenhouse Square or something lol. I’ve lived in quite a few cities - Philly is very reasonable. People want their cake...

Exactly. I'm assuming those same people believe they should also be able to live in and afford the Main Line, Beverly Hills, the Upper East side, Mayfair in London or the 6th Arrondissement in Paris....

Ever city has their luxury enclaves. Not everyone can afford to live everywhere.

Philadelphia has a jobs problem, not an affordability problem.

[PHLtoNYC]

I assume this is city limits, not metro?

Some cities higher than Philadelphia surprising, like New Orleans. But this goes to show that Philadelphia (and Chicago) are the best bang for your buck big cities.

But the spreading the idea of Philadelphia being "unaffordable" is a typical trigger of emotions used by the City Council crew to detract from more serious issues like poverty, crime, lack of jobs and opportunity for residents in poverty, etc., ... but I digress.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I assume this is city limits, not metro?

Some cities higher than Philadelphia surprising, like New Orleans. But this goes to show that Philadelphia (and Chicago) are the best bang for your buck big cities.

But the spreading the idea of Philadelphia being "unaffordable" is a typical trigger of emotions used by the City Council crew to detract from more serious issues like poverty, crime, lack of jobs and opportunity for residents in poverty, etc., ... but I digress.

Yes. That's city limits.