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  #261  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2022, 7:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
Angel Stadium underwent two massive renovations, one adding seats in 1979-1980 to accommodate the Rams (for a while, it was the largest MLB ballpark by seating capacity IIRC?) and another in 1997-1998 to remove those seats.

There's parts of the stadium that feel newer than its age (seats, exterior, idiotic outfield rock formation) and other parts (the inner concourses, bathrooms and concession stands) that are straight out of 1966. Its an odd mishmash of different eras.
well, even if it no longer has all of the austere MCM grace it once had as originally built, the late '90s deconversion from a baseball/football multi-use stadium back into a dedicated baseball stadium still looks like a tremendous improvement, IMO.

but i've never attended a game at an of angel stadium's incarnations; just going off of pics here. it is cool that they saved the giant halo'd "A" sign and moved it to the parking lot, but it looked even better holding up the scoreboard inside the stadium itself.


Angel Stadium through the years:


as built in 1966:


source: https://www.ocregister.com/2015/03/02/angel-stadium-of-anaheim/




conversion to a multi-use stadium in the late 1970s:


source: wikipedia


conversion back to a proper ballpark in the late 1990s:


source: wikipedia
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Feb 15, 2022 at 8:09 PM.
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  #262  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2022, 8:01 PM
DCReid DCReid is offline
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
Hm, I'm not seeing this. LA has always had a huge base of working class Latinos-- I'm not sure that community is really growing as a percentage of the city or county. Also, I think a lot of recent immigrants are among the most apathetic about football. I was in Koreatown Saturday night and you would have never guessed the Super Bowl was happening down the street, or that the local team was playing. It's hard to imagine immigrants from Asia and Central America are going to be passionate LA sports fans from the jump.

Then you have transplants from all over the country who end of up in LA, but still cheer for their home teams. This helps to explain why SOFI was basically majority visiting team fans for most Rams and Chargers games. Finally, you have a huge creative and queer community in LA-- two groups not really known for their passionate sports fandom. Awards season is arguably a bigger deal in LA than any sports post-season.

Now, just based on sheer size of LA alone, you have enough of everybody to find support for most things. I don't doubt that the Rams have pretty passionate fans, and I'd imagine East and South LA are where many of those fans live. East LA's support for the Dodgers is absolutely legit-- those are some of the most passionate baseball fans I've ever encountered. But overall, I don't find the same passion for sports here as I've encountered in other cities.
I would tend to agree, especially because fans of visiting teams to LA football usually can purchase loads and loads of tickets to LA games (not sure if that is the case for Dodgers baseball though and I'm sure it is not the case for the Lakers). Despite some intense city rivalries, I have only heard of SF and LA fans nearly beating each other to death before and after games, and it seems because LA fans can't sell out their stadiums alone. Red Sox and Yankee fans hate each other, but I have not seen thousands of opposite team fans at home stadium games and cannot recall reading about fans beating each other in parking lots. Maybe there have been instances other than SF and LA fans, but I was kind of shocked hearing about the violence.
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  #263  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2022, 8:29 PM
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The Angel Stadium is like the original Yankee Stadium; altered and renovated beyond recognition that hard to call it the same stadium that was originally built. Very little of the original Wrigley Field remained after that massive renovation.
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  #264  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2022, 8:43 PM
Buckeye Native 001 Buckeye Native 001 is offline
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Don't get me wrong, the conversion back to a baseball-only was the best thing to happen to Angel Stadium. Considering that Disney was involved, the renovations were surprisingly restrained. I never went prior to the most-recent renovation, but I spent a lot of time there watching some decent Angels teams in the early to mid 2000s. The best ballpark atmosphere I've ever experienced happened at Angel Stadium in 2006.

I wish they could've found a better use for the giant halo/Big A. Its currently used as an advertising marquee facing the 57 freeway.
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  #265  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2022, 9:26 PM
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you'll have to share your source on that, I've never heard that. I've been an Arsenal fan for a long time, spent time in London, and the only other team that would be considered a serious contender for the title of Most Popular Team in London is Chelsea.

Anyway, the real purpose of my post was to state that it looks as though the Sixers have indeed moved up the ranks with the James Harden / Ben Simmons trade. I'm not an NBA fan, but I wish the Sixers luck with this! Seems like it was a good trade for both teams (from my limited knowledge).
My experience is from being a Londoner..I come from an Arsenal family as well..my great grandfather started supporting Arsenal and going to games at Highbury in 1913 when they moved to North London.Arsenal have been more successful that's true but they dont have more supporters than Tottenham.
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  #266  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 2:47 AM
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For anyone with 30 minutes to spare, here is a great video on the history of NFL/AFL franchises...their many moves and name changes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovdbrdCIP7U

They didn't spend any time discussing the Dayton Triangles...the first NFL game was at Triangle Park in Dayton, OH [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Triang...f8967385!8m2!3d39.7820451!4d-84.2008691]. Around 2017 the NFL wanted to build a field there to honor its birthplace (it would have been a venue for youth sports) but a Native American group objected due to the presence of old graves so it never happened.
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  #267  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 2:52 AM
rusted root rusted root is offline
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Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
I would tend to agree, especially because fans of visiting teams to LA football usually can purchase loads and loads of tickets to LA games (not sure if that is the case for Dodgers baseball though and I'm sure it is not the case for the Lakers). Despite some intense city rivalries, I have only heard of SF and LA fans nearly beating each other to death before and after games, and it seems because LA fans can't sell out their stadiums alone. Red Sox and Yankee fans hate each other, but I have not seen thousands of opposite team fans at home stadium games and cannot recall reading about fans beating each other in parking lots. Maybe there have been instances other than SF and LA fans, but I was kind of shocked hearing about the violence.
Because despite what the east coast sports media wants you to believe, Giants-Dodgers is a much more intense rivalry than BOS-NYY. Not because LA fans can't sell out their stadiums lmao.
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  #268  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 4:43 AM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
For anyone with 30 minutes to spare, here is a great video on the history of NFL/AFL franchises...their many moves and name changes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovdbrdCIP7U

They didn't spend any time discussing the Dayton Triangles...the first NFL game was at Triangle Park in Dayton, OH [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Triang...f8967385!8m2!3d39.7820451!4d-84.2008691]. Around 2017 the NFL wanted to build a field there to honor its birthplace (it would have been a venue for youth sports) but a Native American group objected due to the presence of old graves so it never happened.
I have a better one. If you have an hour and a half, here is a truly great video discussing every NFL stadium ever used by every team.

https://youtu.be/sWSO4BxJkVk
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  #269  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 5:00 AM
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go Bills
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  #270  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 5:33 AM
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TL, won't read: LA's actually a really great sports city, definitely underrated. It's not the best, but it's far from the worst. I outline some reasons and give specific examples as to why this is the case below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
Hm, I'm not seeing this. LA has always had a huge base of working class Latinos-- I'm not sure that community is really growing as a percentage of the city or county. Also, I think a lot of recent immigrants are among the most apathetic about football. I was in Koreatown Saturday night and you would have never guessed the Super Bowl was happening down the street, or that the local team was playing. It's hard to imagine immigrants from Asia and Central America are going to be passionate LA sports fans from the jump.
Really? Lots of first- and second-generation Mexican-Americans here seem to love the Dodgers. My late Chinese grandmother, who didn't speak a lick of English, followed the Lakers (or at least showed an interest in them).

Quote:
Awards season is arguably a bigger deal in LA than any sports post-season.
You must not have been here in the late 00s for the Lakers' championship years; every regular season game was appointment viewing. I drove down the 10 during rush hour the day after Game 1 of the 2010 NBA Finals and counted 100+ Lakers flags.

Moreover, Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals drew a 39.7% rating in LA and a 33.9% rating in Boston (source)... and the LA market is 2.5 times that of Boston. Maybe fewer Bostonians tuned in because they knew their Celtics were going to lose?

Quote:
Now, just based on sheer size of LA alone, you have enough of everybody to find support for most things. I don't doubt that the Rams have pretty passionate fans, and I'd imagine East and South LA are where many of those fans live. East LA's support for the Dodgers is absolutely legit-- those are some of the most passionate baseball fans I've ever encountered. But overall, I don't find the same passion for sports here as I've encountered in other cities.
The Lakers have the most passionate NBA fan base, success notwithstanding. Somebody in this thread said NYC is just as passionate about the Knicks... I disagree. The Knicks/NBA are not (nor could they ever) be the primary coverage on local sports talk radio all year long like they are here in LA. And FWIW, I actually listened to NY sports talk radio when the Knicks had that great season in 2012-13. And like I said, everyone from my late Cantonese-only-speaking grandmother to a random white hippie guy (not your "stereotypical" sports fan) driving an old school VW wagon absolutely covered in Lakers iconography (including a "Boston sucks" sign for good measure) in Monterey Park (of all places) to Sam Nazarian complaining that he couldn't watch Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals while in Dubai (or something to that effect; I saw it on Twitter 12 years ago).


MLB...

The Dodgers easily have one of the best fan bases in all of baseball, regardless of "arrive by 3rd, leave by 7th" or the idea that Mexican-Americans don't count as "real fans," as I once read on City Data. Yes, we've had several cases of thugs beating up fans of opposing teams, but they don't represent the entire fan base. I also distinctly remember you saying that LA isn't as passionate about the Dodgers as SF is about the Giants, and I would vehemently disagree. Let's not forget that the Giants were once on the cusp of moving to Tampa Bay (thank goodness they didn't). And there are never more Giants fans at Dodger Stadium than vice versa, thanks in part to the largest (organized) traveling fan base in all of MLB — Pantone 294 (they have over 100K followers on Instagram, and their account is verified with a blue check mark).

This billboard appeared right next to Fenway. Many people thought it was to troll Sox fans, but the guy behind it explained that it was an earnest expression of gratitude, that the Red Sox were his second favorite team, and that he would even like to live in Boston one day:


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fBBSJdEz...22391303/betts_billboard_pantone294.jpeg


NHL...

LA's not a cold-weather city (to state the obvious), so fandom is obviously more fickle. That being said, the Kings have their core of die-hard fans. Kings fandom among whites in the South Bay Beach Cities might even equal or exceed Lakers fandom. This billboard appeared in Times Square right across the street from MSG before the start of the 2014 Stanley Cup Finals (Will Ferrell is actually a Kings fan), before some New Yorker(s) decided to change it with a pro-Rangers ad.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2089...rell-video-outside-madison-square-garden


NFL... you said it. It's a hodge-podge.


College football...

I already said that the Trojans don't have "staying power" like other SEC, Big Ten, and ACC programs. I would say LA's the best large college football city behind Atlanta, Detroit (I consider Ann Arbor Detroit), Chicago (Notre Dame and lots of Big Ten alumni), and maybe Miami.


---

Conclusion: No, LA isn't quite Boston, Chicago, New York, or Philadelphia. But at the same time, Rust Belt / cold-weather cities do seem to get a pass. The Cleveland Indians (now Guardians) once averaged like 9-13,000 a game for an entire season. In fact, Mike Golic (a Cleveland native and presumably Indians/Guardians fan) once actually called this out on his radio show Mike & Mike. Detroit Tigers' attendance quickly fell a cliff after recent WS appearances, and the Lions were dead last in attendance this season.

Of course you're going to feel a stronger sports craze in mid-sized cities (e.g. Cleveland, Buffalo, Cincinnati) during championship runs. There are fewer transplants and things to do, and quite frankly that kind of sports success doesn't happen frequently in most of those cities.
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Last edited by Quixote; Feb 16, 2022 at 6:09 AM.
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  #271  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 6:22 AM
rusted root rusted root is offline
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The Giants were never moving to Tampa. It was a PR stunt to get public funding for a new ballpark and it worked. So much so that the A's repeated that exact strategy with Las Vegas as the boogeyman city and it worked again!

And Pantone 294 are all douchebags. Even Dodger fans don't like them.
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  #272  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 7:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
For anyone with 30 minutes to spare, here is a great video on the history of NFL/AFL franchises...their many moves and name changes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovdbrdCIP7U

They didn't spend any time discussing the Dayton Triangles...the first NFL game was at Triangle Park in Dayton, OH [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Triang...f8967385!8m2!3d39.7820451!4d-84.2008691]. Around 2017 the NFL wanted to build a field there to honor its birthplace (it would have been a venue for youth sports) but a Native American group objected due to the presence of old graves so it never happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
TL, won't read: LA's actually a really great sports city, definitely underrated. It's not the best, but it's far from the worst. I outline some reasons and give specific examples as to why this is the case below.



Really? Lots of first- and second-generation Mexican-Americans here seem to love the Dodgers. My late Chinese grandmother, who didn't speak a lick of English, followed the Lakers (or at least showed an interest in them).



You must not have been here in the late 00s for the Lakers' championship years; every regular season game was appointment viewing. I drove down the 10 during rush hour the day after Game 1 of the 2010 NBA Finals and counted 100+ Lakers flags.

Moreover, Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals drew a 39.7% rating in LA and a 33.9% rating in Boston (source)... and the LA market is 2.5 times that of Boston. Maybe fewer Bostonians tuned in because they knew their Celtics were going to lose?



The Lakers have the most passionate NBA fan base, success notwithstanding. Somebody in this thread said NYC is just as passionate about the Knicks... I disagree. The Knicks/NBA are not (nor could they ever) be the primary coverage on local sports talk radio all year long like they are here in LA. And FWIW, I actually listened to NY sports talk radio when the Knicks had that great season in 2012-13. And like I said, everyone from my late Cantonese-only-speaking grandmother to a random white hippie guy (not your "stereotypical" sports fan) driving an old school VW wagon absolutely covered in Lakers iconography (including a "Boston sucks" sign for good measure) in Monterey Park (of all places) to Sam Nazarian complaining that he couldn't watch Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals while in Dubai (or something to that effect; I saw it on Twitter 12 years ago).


MLB...

The Dodgers easily have one of the best fan bases in all of baseball, regardless of "arrive by 3rd, leave by 7th" or the idea that Mexican-Americans don't count as "real fans," as I once read on City Data. Yes, we've had several cases of thugs beating up fans of opposing teams, but they don't represent the entire fan base. I also distinctly remember you saying that LA isn't as passionate about the Dodgers as SF is about the Giants, and I would vehemently disagree. Let's not forget that the Giants were once on the cusp of moving to Tampa Bay (thank goodness they didn't). And there are never more Giants fans at Dodger Stadium than vice versa, thanks in part to the largest (organized) traveling fan base in all of MLB — Pantone 294 (they have over 100K followers on Instagram, and their account is verified with a blue check mark).

This billboard appeared right next to Fenway. Many people thought it was to troll Sox fans, but the guy behind it explained that it was an earnest expression of gratitude, that the Red Sox were his second favorite team, and that he would even like to live in Boston one day:


https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/fBBSJdEz...22391303/betts_billboard_pantone294.jpeg


NHL...

LA's not a cold-weather city (to state the obvious), so fandom is obviously more fickle. That being said, the Kings have their core of die-hard fans. Kings fandom among whites in the South Bay Beach Cities might even equal or exceed Lakers fandom. This billboard appeared in Times Square right across the street from MSG before the start of the 2014 Stanley Cup Finals (Will Ferrell is actually a Kings fan), before some New Yorker(s) decided to change it with a pro-Rangers ad.


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2089...rell-video-outside-madison-square-garden


NFL... you said it. It's a hodge-podge.


College football...

I already said that the Trojans don't have "staying power" like other SEC, Big Ten, and ACC programs. I would say LA's the best large college football city behind Atlanta, Detroit (I consider Ann Arbor Detroit), Chicago (Notre Dame and lots of Big Ten alumni), and maybe Miami.


---

Conclusion: No, LA isn't quite Boston, Chicago, New York, or Philadelphia. But at the same time, Rust Belt / cold-weather cities do seem to get a pass. The Cleveland Indians (now Guardians) once averaged like 9-13,000 a game for an entire season. In fact, Mike Golic (a Cleveland native and presumably Indians/Guardians fan) once actually called this out on his radio show Mike & Mike. Detroit Tigers' attendance quickly fell a cliff after recent WS appearances, and the Lions were dead last in attendance this season.

Of course you're going to feel a stronger sports craze in mid-sized cities (e.g. Cleveland, Buffalo, Cincinnati) during championship runs. There are fewer transplants and things to do, and quite frankly that kind of sports success doesn't happen frequently in most of those cities.
Everyone forgets that the MLS exists it seems but it needs to be said that the LA Galaxy (as well as David Beckham) really helped establish MLS as a player in American sports leagues.

LAFC deserves mention for being a true home grown team with arguably the best stadium in MLS, and a strong supporting group. El Trafico is one of the better rivalries in MLS (next to Portland and Seattle).

Video Link
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  #273  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 1:51 PM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is online now
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Oh please. MLS is no more major league than Colonel Sanders was a war hero.

NFL regular season and playoff games often get 50-100X more viewers than their MLS equivalent.

Not twice, not 10X, like 100X.
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  #274  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 2:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
Oh please. MLS is no more major league than Colonel Sanders was a war hero.

NFL regular season and playoff games often get 50-100X more viewers than their MLS equivalent.

Not twice, not 10X, like 100X.
Comparing MLS to the NFL isn't a good comparison. The better comparison is the MLS to the NHL.

Video Link


And that is only going to improve. Especially since the World Cup is coming to North America in 2026. The MLS is here to stay.
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  #275  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 2:41 PM
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Comparing MLS to the NFL isn't a good comparison. The better comparison is the MLS to the NHL.
Correct.

The NFL is an untouchable juggernaut.

But MLS is now a $1B+ league in total revenue.

The NHL is a $4B+ league in total revenue.

That's not 100x, or 10x, but only 4x, with a narrowing gap.
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  #276  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 2:53 PM
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MLS is increasingly catching up to the NHL and are still in the process of adding franchises, and they have a straightforward path past 32 franchises with a handful of interested and motivated ownership groups. MLS is certainly forgotten in some markets but in others, and i'd consider LA one of these, they do have a sizable footprint.
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  #277  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 3:03 PM
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So the temperature plunged almost 30 degrees right after the Super Bowl and this happens in Pasadena. The weather held up just long enough lol.



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  #278  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 4:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JHikka View Post
MLS is increasingly catching up to the NHL and are still in the process of adding franchises, and they have a straightforward path past 32 franchises with a handful of interested and motivated ownership groups. MLS is certainly forgotten in some markets but in others, and i'd consider LA one of these, they do have a sizable footprint.
Yes..Part of it is how expensive it is to put kids (the future) into Hockey. With Soccer, all you need is a ball and a field. Hockey development can be exclusive.
Also, soccer is the world's most popular sport after all. Aaand both Team Canada and Team U.S.A are both now eliminated from Olympics hockey..Give it to the Europeans. The olympic gold is more important to them then Lord Stanley's ring anyways..Go Sweden! Go Slovakia!
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  #279  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 4:37 PM
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Please. The Cleveland Browns were established and began playing the same year as the Rams. And for what it’s worth, they beat the LA Rams in 1950 and 1955.

And what about the Washington Red… Commanders? The originated in Boston and nearly won an NFL championship the year before they left.
please what? who moves a championship team? the browns haven't done jack since jim brown was playing. they missed out a few times in terrible fashion and have watched every super bowl on tv. way waaaay more tortured than any other franchise -- and when you add all pro sports combined for cleveland, especially as compared to a place like los angeles, its not even close. absolutely and without question the most tortured sports city in america, at the very least within the last 50yrs. and need i remind you this area is the cradle of football and the nfl hof is in the metro? the sad sack browns are downright embarrassing.
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  #280  
Old Posted Feb 16, 2022, 5:21 PM
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Yes..Part of it is how expensive it is to put kids (the future) into Hockey. With Soccer, all you need is a ball and a field. Hockey development can be exclusive.
Also, soccer is the world's most popular sport after all. Aaand both Team Canada and Team U.S.A are both now eliminated from Olympics hockey..Give it to the Europeans. The olympic gold is more important to them then Lord Stanley's ring anyways..Go Sweden! Go Slovakia!
I can attest to that. I wanted to play hockey in high school (1989) which would have been about at least $500 in equipment back then. Meanwhile when I played soccer, all I needed were a decent pair of cleats. Most of the kids who were in hockey in our school came from more well off families.
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