Dead Malls of Canada

[ue]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Hamilton City (former Eaton) Centre twin!
(it won't be around much longer: https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9203748&postcount=250; https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192355&page=17)


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It's really interesting how much more successful Jackson Square is compared to Hamilton City Centre. Though that says more about how dilapidated City Centre is than Jackson Square's vitality. Considering they bleed into one another kind of seamlessly, you'd think they'd feed off of each other more, but Jackson Square is where any foot traffic in that enclosed contraption ends up. But no, it's like night and day.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by ue

It's really interesting how much more successful Jackson Square is compared to Hamilton City Centre. Though that says more about how dilapidated City Centre is than Jackson Square's vitality. Considering they bleed into one another kind of seamlessly, you'd think they'd feed off of each other more, but Jackson Square is where any foot traffic in that enclosed contraption ends up. But no, it's like night and day.

It think it's mainly due to two reasons:
- City Centre was built just as downtown retail was about to decline, and when Eaton's folded it lost its biggest draw; it's a much nicer space than Jackson Square, but if there's little in it to attract people then that matters little
- it is farther from the office buildings along King and Main (some of which are part of the mall; also Mac's Continuing Education Centre is now part of that) and that lunchtime/post-work market, and has little in common with the retail along James N. Between the two malls, there's just too much supply (square footage) to meet the demand.

I'd argue Jackson Square has pretty much hit a low plateau and has been there a while. The retail options are generally not great, and without amenities like the food court, theatres, market, and central library, and the hotel, grocery and liquor stores it would be quite a dead zone too.

It would be nice for a redevelopment of the City Centre to incorporate the atrium, but the layout must be fairly prohibitive for that especially on the east side.

[MolsonExport]

How many viable Eaton's centres are left in Canada? I can only think of two: that in
Toronto (of course) and that in Montreal. The latter struggled when it first opened, but seems to be doing ok, if a little bit downscale from its heyday in the 2000s.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

How many viable Eaton's centres are left in Canada? I can only think of two: that in
Toronto (of course) and that in Montreal. The latter struggled when it first opened, but seems to be doing ok, if a little bit downscale from its heyday in the 2000s.

Vancouver’s Pacific Centre was never “officially” an Eaton Centre, but it had an Eaton’s and these days it does quite well.

[ue]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

How many viable Eaton's centres are left in Canada? I can only think of two: that in
Toronto (of course) and that in Montreal. The latter struggled when it first opened, but seems to be doing ok, if a little bit downscale from its heyday in the 2000s.

Was Rideau Centre ever an Eaton’s Centre? What about Midtown Plaza in Saskatoon?

The one in Calgary, which amalgamated with TD Square to become ‘the Core’ is pretty successful — it has Holt Renfrew, Simons, etc. No doubt its popularity is helped by the large office crowd in Downtown Calgary so not sure how it’s held up in covid times.

[Djeffery]

The downtown London mall now known as Citi Plaza was called Eaton's Square prior to its late 80's expansion to become the Galleria Many called it the Eaton Centre to sound more big city lol. That name was only on the place for most of the 80's after an early decade expansion that transformed it from the original Wellington Square it was known as when it was first built as Canada's first enclosed mall (and first downtown enclosed mall in North America). The Eaton's Square phase was my favourite incarnation of that mall. It had the big new food court in the basement under that new atrium and a more modern feel than the dated 60's look it had prior. The first year the Galleria opened, it was a lot of wow factor, but it was short lived as the recession of the early 90's wiped out a lot of the retail.

Interestingly, the former Eaton's store, which had it's own address separate from the rest of the mall, is now a 4 story office building called Wellington Square, although you would only know that if you entered the mall by the York St entrance and looked right where the elevators are.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by ue

Was Rideau Centre ever an Eaton’s Centre? What about Midtown Plaza in Saskatoon?

The one in Calgary, which amalgamated with TD Square to become ‘the Core’ is pretty successful — it has Holt Renfrew, Simons, etc. No doubt its popularity is helped by the large office crowd in Downtown Calgary so not sure how it’s held up in covid times.

Rideau Centre was definitely an 'Eaton's Centre', it just wasn't allowed to call itself one by name as part of negotiations with the city when it was being built.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by ue

Was Rideau Centre ever an Eaton’s Centre? What about Midtown Plaza in Saskatoon?

The one in Calgary, which amalgamated with TD Square to become ‘the Core’ is pretty successful — it has Holt Renfrew, Simons, etc. No doubt its popularity is helped by the large office crowd in Downtown Calgary so not sure how it’s held up in covid times.

Holt Renfew...the sign of a first order City in Canada. Without a Holt Renfrew its merely just not on the cutting edge. Milton level.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

Holt Renfew...the sign of a first order City in Canada. Without a Holt Renfrew its merely just not on the cutting edge. Milton level.

This post is obvious sarcasm but I’m not sure what the point of it was.

Holt Renfrew significantly tightened the number of locations it has, but the ones it still has are very glossy and well maintained.

[casper]

Originally Posted by ue

Was Rideau Centre ever an Eaton’s Centre? What about Midtown Plaza in Saskatoon?

The one in Calgary, which amalgamated with TD Square to become ‘the Core’ is pretty successful — it has Holt Renfrew, Simons, etc. No doubt its popularity is helped by the large office crowd in Downtown Calgary so not sure how it’s held up in covid times.

In the case of Saskatoon there was an Eaton's Building, still has the name and it has been restored. It now houses the Saskatoon Board of Education offices. The food floor addition was taken over by Loblaws for a time and later torn down and replaced with an office block that now houses BHP Billiton's Canadian head office.

Midtown Plaza had Sears and Eaton's as anchors but not the Eaton's name. I think it was always called Midtown of some sort. The Bay is in the old Eaton's anchor position.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by ue

This post is obvious sarcasm but I’m not sure what the point of it was.

Holt Renfrew significantly tightened the number of locations it has, but the ones it still has are very glossy and well maintained.

A former active poster on this forum used to always give updates on Holt Renfrew a chain which seemed to most of the rest of the forum to be on the wane and not really the target type of store for this forum. The poster felt that without a Holt Renfrew the City really wasn't a true City. Milton is just the scorn of many on this forum especially those in the GTA due to its generic appearance from Highway 401.

[J.OT13]

There's an entire Wikipedia article on current and former Eaton Centres in Canada:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eaton_Centre

[MonctonRad]

FWIW, Moncton had a downtown mall (Highfield Square) anchored by an Eaton's store too. It was a landmark and a destination store. When the Eaton's store closed, the mall suffered greatly. The Bay took over for about a decade, but it was never the same. The mall has since been demolished, and the Avenir Centre (our 8,800 seat downtown arena) has been built on the site.

[esquire]

It's interesting to see how many relatively lavish looking downtown malls were built across Canada in the late 80s and early 90s that were basically DOA, or thrived for just a few years before entering terminal decline.

Hamilton City Centre, London Galleria, Portage Place in Winnipeg, even Regina's downtown Galleria impressed me when I visited in the early 90s. But none of them lasted as thriving malls for very long at all. That was a lot of money dumped into building malls that were probably duds from the get-go.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

There's an entire Wikipedia article on current and former Eaton Centres in Canada:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eaton_Centre

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I had no idea there were so many former Eaton's Centres and "nearly" Eaton's Centres (in all but official name)

[WhipperSnapper]

The 1980s may have been the highest peak in excess the world has ever seen. The 1990s downturn was particularly worst in most of Canada in part to the Mulroney government that aided recession and inflation to occur at the same time. These duds are a more a result of the boom/bust.

I recently watched a film taken in the Eaton Centre during the late 1980s. The only recognizable name (besides the defunct anchors) was McDonalds.

[ScreamingViking]

Some of them were "renewal" initiatives. Hamilton's was intended that way... unfortunately the planning wasn't sound -- can't expect a retail investment to boost a downtown when the downtown market is down on its heels (and/or already saturated with other retail!)

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Some of them were "renewal" initiatives. Hamilton's was intended that way... unfortunately the planning wasn't sound -- can't expect a retail investment to boost a downtown when the downtown market is down on its heels (and/or already saturated with other retail!)

The Rideau Centre was sold in a similar way, but ended-up killing all but one of the remaining department stores with frontage on Rideau Street. The ill-conceived bus mall with heated shelters were a big factor as well, attracting drugs and the homeless population.

Of course, the Rideau Centre isn't and never was anywhere near "dead" which begs the question, what can be attributed to the success of the handful of Eaton Centre's that continue to thrive today? Good transit? Population density? Tourism?

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The Rideau Centre was sold in a similar way, but ended-up killing all but one of the remaining department stores with frontage on Rideau Street. The ill-conceived bus mall with heated shelters were a big factor as well, attracting drugs and the homeless population.

Of course, the Rideau Centre isn't and never was anywhere near "dead" which begs the question, what can be attributed to the success of the handful of Eaton Centre's that continue to thrive today? Good transit? Population density? Tourism?

Tourism in some cases, but having enough disposable income and demand for retail goods in the area is probably the key one.

Hamilton is on the cusp of having a lot more of the latter. But some parts of downtown were coming back to life before the residential boom began, and I think that was more because they offered something that could not be found elsewhere in the city (e.g., James St. North's galleries, unique shops, restaurants; the monthly Art Crawl helped draw attention to all that too)

[ssiguy]

London had a ridiculous number of malls in the 70s and 80s but now the situation is reversed. Neither White Oaks nor Masonville, the 2 largest in the city, crack the top 50 largest in Canada.